Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 September 18

September 18
This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on September 18, 2021.

ACEs (BGYO fandom)
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep  . (non-admin closure)  CycloneYoris talk! 19:57, 25 September 2021 (UTC)


 * ACEs (BGYO fandom) → BGYO (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

The close at Articles for deletion/ACEs (BGYO fandom) was delete, not redirect. Personally, I would've voted for it to be kept deleted. Howard the Duck (talk) 20:00, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This was created as a redirect by User:SBKSPP, who voted to redirect in the AFD, after the AFD was closed as delete. Howard the Duck (talk) 20:02, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep and courtesy ping . I read that discussion as consensus to redirect: there are 3 "merge" or "redirect" comments, plus one "delete because it can be discussed in the main article", against the WP:NOTRIVIA nomination, one "no standalone article" delete, and one WP:OSDE delete which I would disregard. The target clearly discusses the term ACEs as it relates to BGYO fandom; it's a valid search term, though clunky. Ivanvector's squirrel (trees/nuts) 20:24, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the ping. For the record, on this one I abstain; no opinion either way. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい ) 00:32, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep The name is discussed in a section of the band's article. The discussion should've been closed as redirect as an ATD. SBKSPP (talk) 05:05, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Draft:Altura (Automaker)
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was Speedily deleted as a redirect to a deleted page.  . JBW (talk) 09:42, 21 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Draft:Altura (Automaker) → Altura (Automaker) (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

draft redirect Eitanbb (talk) 19:50, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

2021–22 Hong Kong Sapling Cup
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was speedy delete  as G7.  ✗  plicit  23:49, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * 2021–22 Hong Kong Sapling Cup → 2021–22 Sapling Cup (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

The page has been moved to a correct title and this redirect page serves as no function. It was just a mistake by me to create the article with the wrong title. Wikachu24 (talk) 16:37, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete: The redirect's creator supports deletion. This is one of the valid criteria for speedy deletion. &#8213; Susmuffin Talk 21:35, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Tell Me Everything (film)
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep  . (non-admin closure) – DarkGlow • 14:01, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * <span id="Tell Me Everything (film)">Tell Me Everything (film) → Lists of Netflix original films (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Not mentioned at target. Netflix acquired the film rights to a book called Tell Me Everything in 2018, but they have since announced nothing regarding the production of said film. – DarkGlow • 12:31, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

2021 World Baseball Classic - Qualifier 1
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep  . (non-admin closure)  <b style="color:blue; text-shadow:aqua 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">CycloneYoris</b> <b style="color:purple">talk!</b> 19:57, 25 September 2021 (UTC)


 * 2021 World Baseball Classic - Qualifier 1 → 2021 World Baseball Classic qualification (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]


 * <span id="2021 World Baseball Classic – Qualifier 1">2021 World Baseball Classic – Qualifier 1 → 2021 World Baseball Classic qualification (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]


 * 2021 World Baseball Classic - Qualifier 2 → 2021 World Baseball Classic qualification (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]


 * <span id="2021 World Baseball Classic – Qualifier 2">2021 World Baseball Classic – Qualifier 2 → 2021 World Baseball Classic qualification (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Unused. Created for a tournament the won't be played. Deancarmeli (talk) 11:24, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep all. As long as these sections remain at the target article, these are appropriate redirects. Mdewman6 (talk) 18:24, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep - 2021 World Baseball Classic links to these. If these redirects are really thought superfluous, then the links on that page should be retargeted to reflect that first. /Tpdwkouaa (talk) 04:22, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Infidel Castro
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was speedily deleted  per G10 by Bishonen. (non-admin closure) Extraordinary Writ (talk) 18:16, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Infidel Castro → Fidel Castro (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

The redirect is offensive or abusive. (WP:R.3). It does not seem to serve any encyclopedic purpose, and it seems to be purely an attack title. MarioGom (talk) 10:49, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete, obviously. In fact, I've speedied it. Bishonen &#124; tålk 11:32, 18 September 2021 (UTC).
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

User:Hythlodayau
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 10:57, 25 September 2021 (UTC)


 * User:Hythlodayau → St Mary Star of the Sea, West Melbourne (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Although old (2009), this redirect from User space to Main space was created with summary "Original name was only temporary". Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 08:58, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete: This cross-namespace redirect would only make sense to the person who made it. &#8213; Susmuffin Talk 21:28, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete: Clearly no valid reason or context to keep this around. /Tpdwkouaa (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Lists of provincial governors of the the Democratic Republic of the Congo
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 10:58, 25 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Lists of provincial governors of the the Democratic Republic of the Congo → Lists of provincial governors of the Democratic Republic of the Congo (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Since the target page was moved to the the correct title in August last year, it hasn't been getting very many pageviews nowadays, so I don't really know why we still need it lying around. See also Redirects for discussion/Log/2015 January 5. Regards, SONIC  678  03:59, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete. Serves no function. For a minute I could not see the difference between the the two titles. Aymatth2 (talk) 11:18, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete, implausible typo. Bishonen &#124; tålk 11:33, 18 September 2021 (UTC).
 * Delete: This is another implausible mistyping of an article's name. &#8213; Susmuffin Talk 21:30, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * It is plausible enough. I typed it that way by accident when I started the article. The double-word syndrome is common. But it is useless. Aymatth2 (talk) 20:25, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete unlikely typo. Pichpich (talk) 23:02, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete Regardless of the likeliness of this typo, this pattern of redirect is completely excessive and unnecessary. /Tpdwkouaa (talk) 04:17, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete - clearly an R3-qualifying error. Ivanvector's squirrel (trees/nuts) 20:26, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

List of countires that use capital punishment
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 10:58, 25 September 2021 (UTC)


 * List of countires that use capital punishment → Capital punishment by country (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

This isn't a particularly plausible typo and it doesn't get a significant number of views. (unlike Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 January 28). The redirect was moved to the correct List of countries that use capital punishment 18 months ago (3 months after creation), it has never hosted article content. Thryduulf (talk) 02:52, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete as an implausible typo. Elli (talk &#124; contribs) 04:03, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete: This is an implausible mistyping of the subject's name. &#8213; Susmuffin Talk 21:25, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete Low pageviews and no mainspace links. No evidence that this phrasing is otherwise common. /Tpdwkouaa (talk) 04:19, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete - Agreed. This doesn't appear to be useful. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 04:30, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Greek Life
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget  to Greek life. (non-admin closure)  <b style="color:blue; text-shadow:aqua 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">CycloneYoris</b> <b style="color:purple">talk!</b> 02:58, 25 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Greek Life → Fraternities and sororities (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Propose retargeting to Greek life. Names differ only in capitalisation.  dud  hhr  Contribs 01:33, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Unless there's a work titled "Greek Life", the r from miscapitalization should be synced. &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 02:17, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose seems likely that as a proper noun this refers mainly to Fraternities and sororities (Greek life referring to Culture of Greece is more of a linguistic construction than a name). Elli (talk &#124; contribs) 06:36, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. --Asmodea Oaktree (talk) 10:47, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Greek life per nom. The lead of the Fraternities and sororities target uses the lowercase "Greek life" so this doesn't seem like a WP:DIFFCAPS situation. So target the disambiguation page as a R from other capitalization redirect. Mdewman6 (talk) 18:22, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Greek life: There are at least two main topics that a reader might be searching for. &#8213; Susmuffin Talk 20:42, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Greek life. If it were more formerly a proper noun, I might feel differently but that does not seem to be the case. — Godsy (TALK<sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;"> CONT ) 03:20, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Mohamed Noor (murderer)
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 11:00, 25 September 2021 (UTC)


 * <span id="Mohamed Noor (murderer)">Mohamed Noor (murderer) → Killing of Justine Damond (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Mohamed Noor (murderer) is a redirect page for Killing of Justine Damond. Noor is a living person. His criminal conviction of third-degree murder was overturned by the Minnesota Supreme Court. It is legally inaccurate to describe the person as a "murderer". The already exists several more neutral redirect pages for Noor, such as Noor, Mohamed Mohamed and Mohamed Noor (police officer). The only page using the term Mohamed Noor (murderer) is a talk page archive. Deleting Mohamed Noor (murderer) will remove an problematic redirect that really isn't necessary. Minnemeeples (talk) 21:33, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The above text was moved from a malformed AfD at Articles for deletion/Mohamed Noor (murderer) by Goszei (talk)) 00:55, 18 September 2021 (UTC).


 * Minnemeeples (great name, btw) originally tagged this for a G10 speedy deletion, which I declined on the basis that non-neutrality is not grounds for deletion. (Nor, for that matter, is inaccuracy.) I suggested that they bring it to RfD, and I'm glad they have, because it's an interesting argument. I apologize for writing so much on this, but it's a complex case.If this redirect were created as an r from incorrect name about someone convicted of manslaughter but not murder (i.e. what Noor is now), I would probably !vote to delete. WP:BLP applies to redirects, and "Well someone could think he was convicted of murder" probably isn't a good enough argument to justify that redirect. (I could see an exception for someone about whom it is a particularly common misconception.) But the situation we have here is that "Mohamed Noor" is an ambiguous name, and a few weeks after this Noor (listed at Muhammad Noor (disambiguation) as Mohamed Noor (police officer)) was convicted of murder, Shakehandsman created this r from alternative disambiguation. At the time, that was a reasonable qualifier, and one could even argue a more accurate one than "police officer" in terms of what he's best known for.Now, though, he is no longer a convicted murderer. And under BLPCRIME he is owed an amount of deference in how we refer to him. But it's important to remember that our readers don't interact with redirects as redirects. They interact with them as the thing they type in (or the link they click on) before they're taken to another page. In this case, that page is Killing of Justine Damond, which a) is a "Killing of", not "Murder of" article, per WP:KILLINGS, and b) states in its lede Noor's conviction on third-degree murder was overturned by the Minnesota Supreme Court on September 15, 2021. When you combine that with the fact that readers have had two years to come to rely on this redirect's existence, including some periods of very high pageviews, I think it's best to keep a redirect that once was accurate, despite being inaccurate now. The article itself will set the record straight. -- Tamzin  [cetacean needed] (she/they) 01:44, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete. The murder finding against Noor has been overturned by the court. The page title is now completely inaccurate, and a breach of Wikipedia guidelines, as it calls someone a murderer who is not. WWGB (talk) 03:02, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per above. Continue to note that third degree murder is not real murder, but an unusual statute in few jurisdictions. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 03:35, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * This is a tough one. BLP is a very important policy and warrants top consideration - but on the other hand, it looks like we're still comfortable with other redirects using "murder", such as Murder of Justine Damond, referring to this case (and others, like Murder of Adam Toledo). Given that that seems to be de facto practice, I'd keep - this looks to be a useful navigational redirect, and while "murderer" isn't currently accurate, it previously was. Certainly tag with R from non-neutral name (maybe there should be R from non-neutral disambiguation?) Elli (talk &#124; contribs) 04:10, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per BLPCRIME and NPOV. Redundant as well. • Gene93k (talk) 07:21, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per above. Kablammo (talk) 12:25, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete. The navigational benefits seem minimal: I have a hard time concluding that they outweigh the very weighty BLP concerns. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 18:19, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete: This redirect is a massive biographies of living persons violation. &#8213; Susmuffin Talk 21:20, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete: Clear BLP issue, as noted by many here. /Tpdwkouaa (talk) 22:45, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete BLP isn't a suggestion. It's not even a normal policy that can sometimes be ignored, either. It's a superpolicy, designed to prevent real harm from happening to real people and to protect the website from legal liability. There are zero scenarios in which it is okay to violate the BLP policy. Mlb96 (talk) 02:15, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm aware that this will be closed as delete, and I don't really have a problem with that, but I do want to be clear on the rationale for keeping here: The conclusion that everyone is jumping to, and that I disagree with, is that this is a BLP violation. When we maintain a redirect, that is not an endorsement of what it says. We don't endorse the notion that Hillary Clinton is corrupt by having the redirect . The applicability of BLP to a redirect depends on where it points. And in this case it points to a page that states that Mohamed Noor is not a murderer. As an article title this would obviously violate BLP, but I frankly don't see how it does as a redirect; so far, eight delete !votes and the nomination have taken the BLPvio as a given. -- Tamzin  [cetacean needed] (she/they) 02:59, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
 * When we maintain a redirect, it is easily perceived as an endorsement, especially considering that if you follow it, you get it as a top-notice on an article.Agree that where it points matters. This redirect points to a serious victim's page.  Crooked Hillary points to "List of nicknames used by Donald Trump", which greatly ameliorates the BLP problem.  While true, Killing of Justine Damond will probably reliable state that "Mohamed Noor is not a murderer", that statement is buried, which the redirect note is immediately under the title, ahead of the lede. SmokeyJoe (talk) 05:35, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
 * There is a difference between a non-neutral nickname and a non-neutral disambiguator. The use of a disambiguator in an article title asserts that the article's topic can be factually described with that disambiguator. The redirect Crooked Hillary is fine; the redirect Hillary Clinton (criminal) is not. If we had reliable sources showing that Mr. Noor is commonly referred to as "Murderin' Mohamed," then I think that it would not be a BLP violation to have that as a redirect, but even then I still think it would violate BLP to have Mohamed Noor (murderer) as a redirect. Mlb96 (talk) 22:04, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep, redirects like this one are valid search terms. There's a guideline specifically about this circumstance: WP:RNEUTRAL. Because redirects are less visible to readers, more latitude is allowed in their names. Perceived lack of neutrality in redirect names is therefore not a sufficient reason for their deletion. I don't think the redirect violates BLP. A reader will only come across this redirect if they search it up, and then the redirect is simply a helpful navigational tool for an outdated term. The reader then reads the article and sees that the term they used was wrong. If the redirect is deleted, then the reader may never see that the term they used was incorrect. — &thinsp;J947 ‡ message ⁓ edits 06:51, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I think it's extremely obvious how a redirect referring to someone as a murderer who is not legally declared as such is a BLP violation. Furthermore, I don't think anyone puts parenthesized descriptors in their search terms. /Tpdwkouaa (talk) 18:47, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The redirect doesn't refer to someone as a murderer; the reader who searches it up does. And given the amount of article names with parenthetical qualifications, I'd suppose many readers would pick up on the pattern in their searches, whether consciously or subconsciously. — &thinsp;J947 ‡ message ⁓ edits 20:56, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.