Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 February 25

February 25
This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on February 25, 2022.

United States Surgical Corporation
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget  to Tyco International. (non-admin closure)  ev iolite   (talk)  03:25, 5 March 2022 (UTC)


 * United States Surgical Corporation → Covidien (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]


 * U.S. Surgical Corporation → Covidien (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]


 * U.S. Surgical Corp. → Covidien (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Not mentioned in the target or discussed in any other article in sufficient depth to be useful to a reader. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 17:27, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗  plicit  23:59, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep but modify. The redirects should be to Tyco International, where United States Surgical is mentioned.  Wasted Time R (talk) 22:45, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Retarget to the acquiring company Tyco International per Wasted Time. Jay (talk) 07:13, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Beckton Riverside
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget  to Docklands Light Railway extension to Thamesmead. Not much of a consensus, but this option has the momentum following the other RfD. -- Tavix  ( talk ) 04:03, 19 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Beckton Riverside → Beckton (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Reason #10: "If the redirect could plausibly be expanded into an article, and the target article contains virtually no information on the subject." This redirect is used to have something to link to, as if Wikipedia had any useful information on this planned DLR station.

But we don't. Much better to delete the redirect and unlink until linking gives a reader something useful. CapnZapp (talk) 12:43, 4 February 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris talk! 06:58, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete. Beckton Riverside DLR station and Beckton Riverside station are separate redirects (that I'm about to nominate on today's page), this redirect should target information about the development the proposed station would serve that either has a link to or contains information about the proposed station, however I can't find any article that currently has any such information. Thryduulf (talk) 16:23, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Given the development proposed in the next 10/20 years in the area (see here) I think an article may emerge in the future - but for now, Beckton seems a reasonable place to link the redirect. Could always stick a line in the Beckton article, if you'd like. Turini2 (talk) 20:00, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment: User:Turini2 I hope you understand that it is precisely because the target article does not contain any useful on "Beckton Riverside" I have nominated the redirect for deletion. In other words, it is the opposite of "reasonable" to redirect readers to articles that add nothing useful. If the article does contain significant information ten years from now, you are welcome to then recreate the redirect (or even flesh it out as a stand-alone article) but please do not consider "gaming the system" by adding content to Beckton solely to justify keeping the redirect. Thank you and have a good day CapnZapp (talk) 10:38, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * adding information to the target that is encyclopaedic and DUE that supports a redirect is not gaming the system, it is improving the encyclopaedia and something that happens quite often. Thryduulf (talk) 12:58, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Of course, when and if useful info can be found. However, I was responding to Turini2's comment - I am talking about the (hypothetical) case where editors make an effort to mention the redirected term for the chief purpose of not having to delete a redirect, not for the purpose of actually bringing the reader useful information. Anyway, this discussion is well and good, but there still is nothing on the Beckton page about Beckton Riverside, and we don't create redirects "for future use". CapnZapp (talk) 09:51, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Well we do create redirects for future use, but they should still take the reader to some relevant content in the meanwhile. As for not bringing the reader useful information, how would you classify this edit of mine which was made so the (imo useful) redirect Rail transport in the Maldives would not be deleted? In this specific case though you can see I am recommending deletion. Thryduulf (talk) 16:34, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I would like to limit my response to simply noting our agreement. Thank you CapnZapp (talk) 08:45, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 22:45, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Docklands Light Railway extension to Dagenham Dock which is the target of Beckton Riverside station. If the other RfD closes with a change of target, then fix this accordingly. If Beckton Riverside is not notable in itself outside of the context of the railway station, then Reason#10 is not the way to delete this. Jay (talk) 04:44, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Docklands Light Railway extension to Thamesmead which is the new target of Beckton Riverside station per the close outcome of the other RfD. Jay (talk) 11:12, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Retarget to Docklands Light Railway extension to Thamesmead per Jay. Currently, the only thing we have information on that could be referred to as "Beckton Riverside" is the station, which redirects there; I suggest R avoided double redirect as once the station is built and we have an article, this redirect should be retargeted. ev iolite   (talk)  05:02, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Myall Creek
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 March 19%23Myall Creek

Civil court
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget  to Civil law without prejudice against creation of a separate disambiguation at this title. -- Tavix  ( talk ) 03:58, 19 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Civil court → Lawsuit (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Civil courts do much more than hear lawsuits. I recall that when I changed my name there were something like 30 options on the form, and only 2 or 3 involved lawsuits. An article that explains that fairly well, if too briefly, is Civil law (common law). I think it would be better to retarget there. The other concern with this redirect is that it could be ambiguous with a court operating under Civil law (legal system), but the proposed target links to the DAB Civil law, so I think that handles that. -- Tamzin  [ cetacean needed ] (she/they) 11:16, 2 February 2022 (UTC) Relisting comment: Note that both Civil law (common law) and Civil law (legal system) hatnote the DAB Civil law. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jay (talk) 15:47, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree the current target isn't great, but I'm wondering whether a dab page might be better. The top hits on google for me relate to County Court (England and Wales) for example, but this will likely be different for those googling from outside that jurisdiction. Thryduulf (talk) 20:01, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:REDYES. Veverve (talk) 21:57, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
 * We already have sooo many stub articles on marginally distinct legal topics. I'd just as soon not encourage creation of another. What is there to be said about civil courts that can't be said in the article on civil law? --  Tamzin  [ cetacean needed ] (she/they) 08:42, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Relisting comment: Seems to be clear agreement that the status quo is unsatisfactory, but no clear consensus between retargeting, deletion, and disambiguation. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 22:37, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Something that hasn't been mentioned yet is that the phrase "civil court" is often used to denote the opposite of Ecclesiastical court, i.e. a court that applies secular rather than religious law. Several of the backlinks indeed are using this meaning: I noticed Priest–penitent privilege in England from the Reformation to the nineteenth century and Serbian Orthodox Diocese v. Milivojevich at a glance. (Heck, I've even used it that way myself: "...holding that the civil courts could not review church disciplinary proceedings".) See also some of these Google Scholar results and Black's Law Dictionary: "[Civil] is also used in contradistinction to military or ecclesiastical, to natural or foreign; thus, we speak of a civil station, as opposed to a military or an ecclesiastical station; a civil death, as opposed to a natural death ; a civil war, as opposed to a foreign war." My recommendation would probably be to retarget to the dab page Civil law (which needs to be expanded) since the phrase is ambiguous. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 00:16, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * I don't object to Extraordinary Writ's suggestion, although I'd still prefer my own. --  Tamzin  [ cetacean needed ] (she/they) 05:04, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * A separate disambiguation page, as Thryduulf proposes, would be acceptable as well, I think. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 19:40, 6 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Having thought more about this, I think a dedicated disambiguation page, linking to but separate from, Cvil law would be the best. Thryduulf (talk) 15:12, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Retarget to the disambiguation page Civil law or create a separate disambiguation page. Schleiz (talk) 15:33, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Weak retarget to Civil law. I'm sympathetic to the call for a new disambiguation page, because the other uses don't seem to apply. You probably wouldn't call a court a civil court just because it was municipal or part of a continental legal system, though both of those would have their non-criminal courts. It would be nice if the disambiguation page could easily account for the usage of non-criminal/non-military/non-religious law, but if I had a good idea for how to do that, I'd do it.
 * A draft disambiguation page could help if we're still holding out hope for disambiguating this title. --BDD (talk) 21:43, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Double-redirect
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 March 16%23Double-redirect

Софија
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget  to Sofija (given name). (non-admin closure)  ev iolite   (talk)  03:21, 5 March 2022 (UTC)


 * <span id="Софија">Софија → Sofia (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Not in any language relevant to the article. Not target article. Quick Quokka [ talk] 21:46, 25 February 2022 (UTC)


 * This appears to be Macedonian or Serbian. See mk:Софија and sr:Софија. - Eureka Lott 01:21, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I know, but Bulgaria's language is Bulgarian, and the Macedonian/Serbian aren't relevant to the article, since they're not spoken in Sofia. Quick Quokka  [ talk] 10:22, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Sofija (given name), which appears to be the only target in English Wikipedia for which any of those languages is relevant for WP:RLOTE purposes. 61.239.39.90 (talk) 11:59, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Totally agree. Quick Quokka  [ talk] 12:45, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Hornography
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 06:26, 5 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Hornography → The Potash Twins (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Not mentioned at the target, delete unless a justification can be provided. signed,Rosguill talk 21:18, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete: search results are for various musical ensembles, mainly a non-notable brass band in Somerville, Massachusetts. Certes (talk) 23:05, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Gamma-amino butyne acid
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 March 4%23Gamma-amino butyne acid

Twin Peaks (Salt Lake County, Utah) (disambiguation)
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 March 4%23Twin Peaks (Salt Lake County, Utah) (disambiguation)

Afghan War (2001–current)
<span id="Afghan War (2001–current)"> <span id="Afghan War (2001-current)"> Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 March 4%23Afghan War (2001–current)

Dick pic program
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 March 4%23Dick pic program

Constituent monarchies
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget  to Non-sovereign monarchy. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 02:37, 4 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Constituent monarchies → Administrative division (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]
 * Constituent monarchy → Administrative division (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Retarget to Non-sovereign monarchy or List of current constituent monarchs. Thesmp (talk) 19:15, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Retarget both away from the current target which is unsatisfactory, to Monarch (and remove circular wikilink there). Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 16:08, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Shhhnotsoloud, why do you propose Monarch as a target? I think Non-sovereign monarchy or List of current constituent monarchs is much closer to what reader why expect to see when he/she enters 'Constituent monarchy'. --Thesmp (talk) 22:33, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I was concerned that Non-sovereign monarchy does not define "Constituent monarchy" (although I admit Monarchy doesn't either). Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 21:33, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Shhhnotsoloud, now I added this synonym too. Thesmp (talk) 22:25, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jay (talk) 03:33, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Non-sovereign monarchy. There isn't a need for the article to define "Constituent monarchy" as it appears to be a conjectural term rather than one in much use. CMD (talk) 01:59, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Download Songs
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 02:36, 4 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Download Songs → Billboard Japan (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

As-is, apparently too vague to mean one specific chart. Couldn't find other charts using exact phrase or name, but I believe it may also mean any other downloadable songs chart. George Ho (talk) 19:36, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jay (talk) 03:33, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep and add redirects here, hatnote to Download (disambiguation) where there are more options. If "Download Songs" is the specific name for other charts than the Japan one, this can become a disambiguation. Compare with Download Charts. AngusW🐶🐶F  ( bark  •  sniff ) 19:49, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom, too vague. Veverve (talk) 09:58, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete once upon a time this would surely have meant Napster -- 65.92.246.142 (talk) 04:54, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Download Albums
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 02:35, 4 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Download Albums → Billboard Japan (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

As-is, too vague to mean one specific chart. May also mean UK Album Downloads Chart or the French album downloads chart. George Ho (talk) 19:31, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jay (talk) 03:32, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep as with Download Songs RFD. Same reasoning, can be disambiguated when there are multiple charts with the same name. AngusW🐶🐶F  ( bark  •  sniff ) 20:05, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Veverve (talk) 09:57, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete once upon a time this surely would have meant Napster and could still mean bittorrent (or The Pirate Bay) -- 65.92.246.142 (talk) 04:55, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Top Albums Sales
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 March 4%23Top Albums Sales

Hot Albums
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 March 4%23Hot Albums

Tweener (basketball)
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget  to Glossary of basketball terms. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 02:33, 4 March 2022 (UTC)


 * <span id="Tweener (basketball)">Tweener (basketball) → Basketball positions (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Term is not mentioned anywhere in the target article Tube·of·Light 03:16, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Glossary of basketball terms, where it is defined.—Bagumba (talk) 04:10, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Glossary of basketball terms (There's a vanchor on it) per above. <b style="color: #ea5a5a;">Tartar</b>Torte 18:20, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.