Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 20

November 20
This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on November 20, 2022.

Big hat boy
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was speedy delete  . CSD G7. Liz Read! Talk! 02:36, 21 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Big hat boy → Uraba lugens (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

There appears to be no usage of "big hat boy" to refer to this species of moth in particular. While the name does make some sense from the appearance of the moth's caterpillar and "Mad hatterpillar" is there as a common name, the article does not mention "big hat boy" in any capacity, and googling for terms like 'caterpillar "big hat boy"' or with the taxonomical name brings up no related results other than this wikipedia page itself. Randi Moth (talk) 22:30, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete: I created the redirect because the name was present when I reviewed the page August 26, 2018. The common name had been added July 17, 2018, without explanation, then removed as invalid August 28, 2018. I agree with Randi above, and I can't find any evidence that it is real. Good catch. SchreiberBike &#124; ⌨ 23:01, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete: Per WP:G7. I’ve tagged the redirect. Pizzaplayer219TalkContribs 02:29, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Sake no dengaku
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  .  ✗  plicit  23:45, 27 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Sake no dengaku → Salmon (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

No mention anywhere on enwiki. Delete unless a mention can be added. Mdewman6 (talk) 22:05, 20 November 2022 (UTC)


 * A quick DDG search shows that it is some sort of obscure salmon dish. It is not mentioned in the article so it should be deleted. RoostT C (Please ping me) 13:15, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
 * If a mention were to be added, salmon as food would be a much more appropriate target. But it does seem like this is an obscure term likely not worthy of a redirect. Mdewman6 (talk) 22:59, 21 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete as surprise since neither "sake" or "dengaku" refer to salmon. However, Dengaku (food) can be a possible new article to cover the glaze you put on tofu, and stuff that you would find on the Oden and Miso pages.   AngusW🐶🐶F  ( bark  •  sniff ) 22:35, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Sake means "salmon" in Japanese, see ansh. 666  16:59, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete per above with no prejudice regarding article creation -- Lenticel ( talk ) 00:55, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Salmon and Trout
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 28%23Salmon and Trout

Bela River
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 28%23Bela River

L. ferox
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 27%23L. ferox

Equatorial
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was withdrawn  . I'll proceed as a bold action, and anyone is free to revert that. (non-admin closure) – Uanfala (talk) 12:38, 22 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Equatorial → Equator (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

The Earth's equator may seem like an obvious primary topic at first. But then if you look closer, you'd see that the adjective "equatorial" is more commonly used to describe tropical climates and habitats, or to refer to the celestial equator instead. It also has a few other, less common, uses (such as for orbits, coordinate systems or chemical bond orientations). Some idea of the usage can be gleaned from the way the term is linked on Wikipedia: There are about 130 instances where it links to the current primary topic (as can be seen, in a lot of those cases the link should be changed), and about 470 where it links to something else. Given the clear absence of a primary topic, I propose the creation of a dab page with the six meanings listed above (plus any that may be uncovered now). In fact, a dab page existed at this title for years, but it got turned into a redirect as the unexpected outcome of a recent AfD. Instead of seeking to reopen that discussion, I thought it was better to continue it here: AfD is not the best venue for discussing redirects or primary topics. Of course, the closer of this RfD should fully take into account the prior discussion (I'm pinging participants in case they have anything to add:, , , , ). – Uanfala (talk) 18:43, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Here's also the clickthroughs from the time when this was a dab page: . In October this year, the link to Tropics alone got more than 6x as many clicks as the link to Equator. – Uanfala (talk) 19:20, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Deletion review. The Afd closed today with consensus to blank the previous disambiguation page and redirect to the current target. To come straight to Rfd to propose a new disambiguation page over the new redirect is procedurally out of line and could be seen as forum shopping to get around current consensus reached elsewhere (though I have no doubt the nominator's intentions are benevolent and sincere). If the close was possibly incorrect, or should not have been closed with the goal of further discussion, WP:DRV is the correct venue, not Rfd. Otherwise, I don't see how we can go against current consensus. Mdewman6 (talk) 20:33, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The key question is if there's a primary topic and in the AfD this was once asserted to be the case and then challenged, with no followup discussion. Calling that "consensus" is a bit of a stretch. Again, I don't think things can be helped by going back to AfD, or even worse, to DRV, for resolving a quesion that's really beyond the scope of those venues. And given the data above, I'd be really surprised if there's anyone left out there who genuinely believes redirecting to be a good idea. And if procedural correctness is to be preferred over common sense, then I could have just used a loophole: I could have just created the dab page I'm proposing above: it would be substantially different from the one discussed at AfD, so it wouldn't be bound by its outcome. – Uanfala (talk) 21:15, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree there may not have been consensus at Afd, and the proper venue to reach that determination is DRV, not here. I don't see how Afd wasn't the proper venue for the discussion- someone proposed there shouldn't be a dab page because all non-partial title matches could be covered at a redirect target (Afd being the proper venue to propose controversial WP:BLARs), whereas others countered that the solution is to revise the existing disambiguation page as an alternative to deletion or redirection. I'm all for WP:IAR and WP:SNOW, but there is just no justifiable basis for moving a closed discussion to a different venue with the goal of reaching a different consensus, when if fact doing so is against policy per WP:FORUMSHOP. Disambiguation may be the best outcome here, but this is not the way to about it given the Afd outcome as it currently stands. Mdewman6 (talk) 22:44, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The AfD nom wanted the page deleted, so AfD was hands down the right venue for that. As for moving a closed discussion to a different, more suitable, venue: that's done all the time. I could have easily started an informal talk page thread with a round of pings to everyone, just like here. I really don't think there's the need to resort to high-level bureaucracy to deal with every minor unfinished business. I probably made a mistake here in going for a formal venue like RfD. – Uanfala (talk) 23:06, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Actually, I realise now that it does feel weird to be having one formal discussion after another. Given that the case against the current primary topic is so obvious and granted that none of the previous participants have objected to this so far, I'm going to just withdraw this nomination and then create a dab page as a bold action. – Uanfala (talk) 12:36, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Gypsies
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget  to Romani people. (non-admin closure) → lettherebedarklight → 晚安 → おやすみ → 05:04, 27 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Gypsies → Names of the Romani people (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Retarget to primary topic Romani people. 162 etc. (talk) 18:39, 20 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Keep as is. The term “gypsy” can be seen as offensive; it is better to link to an explanation of the term than uncritically treat it as a mundane synonym. Dronebogus (talk) 20:21, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Note that I'm nominating Gypsies. Gypsy already redirects to Romani people. 162 etc. (talk) 20:34, 20 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Retarget to Romani people per nom as R from alternative name, consistent with the singular Gypsy. Users are more likely seeking the group to which this name refers, rather than a discussion of alternative names. Mdewman6 (talk) 20:43, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Romani people per nom and Mdewman6 -- Lenticel ( talk ) 00:20, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Romani people per nom. Note that was where the term redirected for a long time until a change this year, so just restoring the original redirect.  SnowFire (talk) 05:07, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Rank and file (chess)
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 27%23Rank and file (chess)

DemiRep
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was no consensus  . Nominator blocked as sock, further discussion has not elicited clear support for any particular outcome. No prejudice to renomination. signed,Rosguill talk 19:37, 27 November 2022 (UTC)


 * DemiRep → Bikini Kill (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

No explanation at target page. BarleyButt (talk) 18:07, 13 November 2022 (UTC) WP:STRIKESOCK Clyde!Franklin! 02:42, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jay  💬 18:35, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * It's a song on The Singles (Bikini Kill album). It is named as "Demirep" there, but https://www.discogs.com/master/631003-Bikini-Kill-The-Singles/image/SW1hZ2U6MjgxMzc4OQ== has the R capitalised. There is also a horse mentioned at Cedric (racehorse) but I don't know if it's notable, and a definition of the word at Regency romance - keep this and disambiguate Demirep? Peter James (talk) 19:46, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Please note that this redirect's creator made a second redirect at DemiRep (Bikini Kill song). - Eureka Lott 19:52, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: The nominatior has been blocked as a sockpuppet. However, I am not speedy keeping per WP:SK #2 which says However, if subsequent editors added substantive comments in good faith before the nominator's blocked or banned status was discovered, the nomination may not be speedily closed.<span id="ClydeFranklin:1668911924845:WikipediaFTTCLNRedirects_for_discussion/Log/2022_November_13" class="FTTCmt">— Clyde!Franklin! 02:38, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Brassière or bra
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 27%23Brassière or bra

The Captain(1967 book)
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  .  Jay  💬 17:16, 27 November 2022 (UTC)


 * <span id="The Captain(1967 book)">The Captain(1967 book) → The Captain (novel) (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

This was left over from a move in 2006 to the correctly formatted title The Captain (1967 book) because of what's standard WP:RDAB protocol-in this case, the lack of a space between the title and disambiguator. Delete this unless someone can provide a justification or alternative course of action. Regards, SONIC 678 17:09, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete: Classic WP:RDAB issue. <b style="background:#f5b836;color:#d12b1f;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Pizzaplayer219</b>Talk<sub title="C" style="margin-left:-22q;">Contribs 02:25, 21 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete Unlikely search term with a malformed disambiguator. Roostt•c(Please Ping me) 13:06, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete due to malformed modifier -- Lenticel ( talk ) 00:21, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete it was only at this title for around 8 minutes.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 20:32, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

After the Rain (Michael Jones album)
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget  to Michael Jones (Canadian musician). Refined current target. (non-admin closure)  <b style="color:blue; text-shadow:cyan 0.0em 0.0em 0.1em;">CycloneYoris</b> <b style="color:purple">talk!</b> 04:27, 27 November 2022 (UTC)


 * <span id="After the Rain (Michael Jones album)">After the Rain (Michael Jones album) → Michael Jones (Canadian musician) (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Delete this redirect. Nothing links here, and nothing will ever link here. There's no need for it to exist. 73.86.46.50 (talk) 12:56, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Procedural relist. The redirect was not tagged for discussion. I have done it now. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jay  💬 13:12, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep per the outcome of Articles for deletion/After the Rain (Michael Jones album). No valid reason for deletion has been identified. - Eureka Lott 15:42, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Because nothing links to this and nothing will ever link to this. No one is typing this in the search bar, so why is it kept? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.86.46.50 (talk) 18:47, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Refine to Michael Jones (Canadian musician), where it's mentioned. Even if there are no links from the main namespace, it's still a potentially helpful R with history that used to be an article before being redirected to its current target as the result of an AfD at the end of last January, which'll still get readers to their intended target. The album is still worth mentioning somewhere even if it was deemed not notable enough for its article to continue. Regards, SONIC 678 16:03, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Keep Refine to Michael Jones (Canadian musician): I can't find a reason in WP:RDELETE that would support deletion. It's mentioned at the target and the redirect has history at it. There's nothing implausible in the title. <b style="color: #ea5a5a;">Tartar</b>Torte 15:52, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Updated to change keep to refine as refinement makes more sense, but rationale is the exact same <b style="color: #ea5a5a;">Tartar</b>Torte 21:38, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Also, with regards to pageviews, before nomination it was getting ~0.5 pageviews per day, which isn't high usage, but has usage. <b style="color: #ea5a5a;">Tartar</b>Torte 15:53, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Refine to Michael Jones (Canadian musician) per Sonic. Oppose deletion per Afd outcome. Mdewman6 (talk) 21:03, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Refine to Michael Jones (Canadian musician) per above. Oppose deletion per WP:FORUMSHOP. -- Lenticel ( talk ) 10:14, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Just noting that refining works for me, as well. - Eureka Lott 15:46, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Typhoon Nanmadol
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was procedural close.  Request is now properly a requested move discussion at Talk:Typhoon Nanmadol (2022). Redirect has been retargeted back to its original target pending the outcome. Mdewman6 (talk) 20:11, 20 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Typhoon Nanmadol → Typhoon Nanmadol (2022) (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

i requested a page move, none answered so i would like for Typhoon Nanmadol (2022) to be Typhoon Nanmadol since this redirect is blocking me from moving the page. 🌀 <span style="background:linear-gradient(120deg,#ffff00 25%, #61610d);">SuperTyphoonNoru 🌀 SuperTyphoonNoru (talk) 05:38, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Westwood Mall (Omaha, Nebraska)
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was soft delete  . Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion .  ✗  plicit  11:38, 27 November 2022 (UTC)


 * <span id="Westwood Mall (Omaha, Nebraska)">Westwood Mall (Omaha, Nebraska) → Westroads Mall (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

There is no mention at the target that the mall was known as "Westwood", or has the alternate name. This entry was never part of the Westwood Mall disambiguation page as well. A Google search for 'Westroads Mall Omaha "Westwood"' shows results where Westwood is a plaza, shopping center, cinema, golf course, etc. Delete. Jay 💬 05:19, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

July 4 1894
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 27%23July 4 1894

Little Peeps
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 27%23Little Peeps

Mud hen
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 27%23Mud hen