Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 April 18

April 18
This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on April 18, 2023.

Dr. Jenner
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 April 25%23Dr. Jenner

Tobha
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . signed,Rosguill talk 21:53, 25 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Tobha → Pond (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Not mentioned in the target article, leaving the connection between the redirect and the target unclear. Also, seems this redirect contained an article in 2008 prior to being subject to a WP:BLAR (this redirect is a R with history), but the content seemed to be a WP:DICDEF, and per the redirect's history, this redirect targeting where it does seems to be a WP:FORRED issue. Steel1943 (talk) 19:16, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:FORRED. It's the Punjabi term for village pond according to this document. -- Lenticel ( talk ) 02:20, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per above. There's nothing salvageable in the unsourced 3-sentence stub that existed there for 6 months in 2008. – Uanfala (talk) 10:45, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Loose horse
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 April 25%23Loose horse

A List of Feminist: Women of Color
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . signed,Rosguill talk 21:52, 25 April 2023 (UTC)


 * A List of Feminist: Women of Color → List of feminist women of color (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

This was the original title of the page before it was moved in 2016, but the format (especially the colon) makes it seem like a title or something, so I'm not sure this title makes sense. Regards, SONIC 678 17:27, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Apparently born out of a student project and thus unsurprisingly unfamiliar with our naming conventions. Neutral about the fate of the redirect. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 17:30, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. * Pppery * it has begun... 03:36, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete. —Compassionate727 (T·C) 13:26, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Gru (Despicable Me)
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was speedy keep  . Nominator has not provided a valid reason for deletion. PLEASE see WP:CHEAP and WP:RFD before nominating any more redirects. (non-admin closure) Pizzaplayer219TalkContribs 13:35, 18 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Gru (Despicable Me) → Gru (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Useless redirect. ErceÇamurOfficial (talk) 12:28, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep, harmless, and not totally useless: helps to keep links in pre-2023 versions of articles pointing to the right place. —Kusma (talk) 12:31, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Speedy keep, no valid rationale provided. Preserves links and helps readers find what they are looking for.  The Night Watch     (talk)   12:44, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:CHEAP. InterstellarGamer12321 ( talk &#124;  contribs ) 12:57, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep R from unneeded disambiguation R from move R with history 1234qwer1234qwer4 13:20, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Quotient map
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 April 26%23Quotient map

Rock Johnson
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep  . (non-admin closure)  CycloneYoris</b> <b style="color:purple">talk!</b> 10:32, 25 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Rock Johnson → Dwayne Johnson (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Either retarget to Rocky Johnson since Rock is a nickname for Rocky, or delete it, because I believe Dwayne Johnson was never known as "The Rock Johnson". ErceÇamurOfficial (talk) 09:17, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep Dwayne Johnson's nickname is "The Rock," so this seems close enough to be plausible. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 21:36, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep. Plausible. Steel1943  (talk) 00:27, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep - Plausible search term. GaryColemanFan (talk) 05:58, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep. Rocky in Rocky Johnson's name is in itself a nickname. Rock is not a nickname for Rocky. Jay  💬 09:11, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Wildfire (Magic: the Gathering)
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  .  ✗  plicit  23:46, 24 April 2023 (UTC)


 * <span id="Wildfire (Magic: the Gathering)">Wildfire (Magic: the Gathering) → Multiverse (Magic: The Gathering) (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Not mentioned at target. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 02:45, 11 April 2023 (UTC) Relisting comment: For an opinion on the pre-redirect content history. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jay  💬 07:04, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Delete as unhelpful. It'd be deleted at AfD handily, that 2007 unreferenced fancruft.  J947  † edits 07:14, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom ErceÇamurOfficial (talk) 13:43, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete The material in the history is not even supported by cites. I think it's safe to assume that it will be deleted even if sent to AfD. -- Lenticel ( talk ) 02:12, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Max fosh
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . While there may not be a firm consensus on whether to keep a correctly-capitalized Max Fosh, there is clearer consensus to delete this title. signed,Rosguill talk 16:25, 17 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Max fosh → Matthew Fosh (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

His name is Matthew Fosh, so having a redirect at Max Fosh doesn't make sense under the current justification of "miscapitalisation". Paul Vaurie (talk) 05:53, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep as R from relative – see article, the redirect's page history, and Articles for deletion/Max Fosh (2nd nomination).  J947  † edits 07:08, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep as R from relative per J947. InterstellarGamer12321 ( talk &#124;  contribs ) 12:54, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete Max is not his father, and is in many ways more known and more notable than him, which is why having him as essentially a footnote in his fathers wikipedia page, is pretty ridiculous. Max has well over 1 million subscribers, has over 100 million views, is a well-known standup comedian and was even a candidate for the 2021 London Mayoral Election, where he honestly did pretty good all things considered. PixelMonki (talk) 19:20, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per Articles for deletion/Max Fosh (2nd nomination). We shouldn't have a redirect at an incorrectly-capitalized version of the name when the correctly-capitalized version is a redlink. It was created a day after Max Fosh was deleted and looks like a very WP:POINTy reaction to the outcome of the deletion discussion - Eureka Lott 23:50, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Why did you create the redirect at the lowercase although Max Fosh was deleted but not protected at the time? would you want to unprotect Max Fosh so it can be made a redirect?  Jay  💬 07:34, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the ping @Jay. I've unprotected. It looks like from the logs that it was immediately recreated following the AfD but I haven't followed developments about Fox since. Star   Mississippi  13:26, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per EurekaLott. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 03:36, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * and, what is your stand based on the subsequent comments? Jay  💬 09:02, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't see why it was pointy. RfD >> AfD in terms of adjudicating redirects, and this redirect seems helpful (though there could be a better target? I haven't checked). Max Fosh can be created too.  J947  † edits 09:19, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Weak delete Max fosh as it is incorrectly capitalised. However, I am not opposed to the creation of Max Fosh in its place as an R from relative because it would actually serve a use. InterstellarGamer12321 ( talk &#124;  contribs ) 15:15, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Skyshroud
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 April 25%23Skyshroud

Panemonium (D&D)
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep  . And refine to Outer Plane.  Jay  💬 08:55, 25 April 2023 (UTC)


 * <span id="Panemonium (D&D)">Panemonium (D&D) → Outer Plane (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Unlikely typo, very few pageviews. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 02:23, 11 April 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 05:48, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep because it's not doing any harm. A few pageviews is a few user experiences enhanced. ··gracefool &#128172; 21:03, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep, agreeing with, and WP:Redirects are cheap. Daranios (talk) 10:34, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete. Term is not mentioned at the target, and is therefore confusing. Refine to Outer Plane per Daranios as a plausible misspelling. <b style="color:blue; text-shadow:cyan 0.0em 0.0em 0.1em;">CycloneYoris</b> <b style="color:purple">talk!</b> 04:00, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * But it's a typo (and in my estimation not that unlikely), so it's not supposed to be mentioned at the target, right? Daranios (talk) 07:21, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Another detail, I think if we point the redirect directly to Outer Plane, that should resolve more or less all cases of confusion, voiding the need to search. Daranios (talk) 10:30, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree. Refining to that section is preferable. I've updated my rationale above. <b style="color:blue; text-shadow:cyan 0.0em 0.0em 0.1em;">CycloneYoris</b> <b style="color:purple">talk!</b> 15:50, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Keep as a typo redirect per Gracefool.  J947  † edits 07:11, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Pazunia
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget  to Outer Plane.  Jay  💬 08:29, 25 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Pazunia → Plane (Dungeons & Dragons) (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Not mentioned at target. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 02:23, 11 April 2023 (UTC) Relisting comment: Not mentioned at the target as of this relist, which means that both keep !votes have essentially no weight at this time. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 05:47, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep - I added a mention to the article. BOZ (talk) 18:12, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep, as mention has been added. Daranios (talk) 10:32, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment: No mention of "Pazunia" was added to the target AFAIA. <b style="color:blue; text-shadow:cyan 0.0em 0.0em 0.1em;">CycloneYoris</b> <b style="color:purple">talk!</b> 03:52, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Retarget to Outer Plane - I made an error in my post above, as that is actually where I added the mention. BOZ (talk) 06:15, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Outer Plane, where mention was added. Good spot, ! Daranios (talk) 07:17, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Plane of Infinite Portals
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget  to Outer Plane.  Jay  💬 08:28, 25 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Plane of Infinite Portals → Plane (Dungeons & Dragons) (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Not mentioned at target. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 02:23, 11 April 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 05:46, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep - Alternative name for Pazunia, now included in the article. Daranios (talk) 14:37, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete. Term is not mentioned at the target, which makes it confusing. <b style="color:blue; text-shadow:cyan 0.0em 0.0em 0.1em;">CycloneYoris</b> <b style="color:purple">talk!</b> 03:57, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Retarget to Outer Plane where I added a mention. BOZ (talk) 06:15, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Outer Plane, where mention was added. Good spot, ! Daranios (talk) 07:17, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Instantaneous travel between any two points in the universe
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 April 26%23Instantaneous travel between any two points in the universe

Untitled Super Mario Bros. film
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete on the first and no consensus on the second  . Stifle (talk) 08:18, 17 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Untitled Super Mario Bros. film → The Super Mario Bros. Movie (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]
 * Untitled Mario film → The Super Mario Bros. Movie (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

No longer untitled. Pageviews have fallen significantly. <b style="background:#f5b836;color:#d12b1f;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Pizzaplayer219</b>Talk<sub title="C" style="margin-left:-22q;">Contribs 15:10, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Relisting comment: There is a clear consensus to delete the first redirect but not the second. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 05:45, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete Per nomination, dead redirect. Kcmastrpc (talk) 15:17, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete Dead redirect is dead.  Mike  Allen   15:19, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:UFILM. InfiniteNexus (talk) 16:11, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete Untitled Super Mario Bros. film, which is no longer receiving significant traffic. Keep Untitled Mario film for now, because it's still getting hundreds of views per day. It's probably linked on external sites. - Eureka Lott 16:18, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete and keep per EurekaLott. The first redirect is more confusing than helpful now, whereas the second one is more helpful than confusing.  J947  † edits 03:52, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete No longer untitled. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:23, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete and keep for now per EurekaLott. The daily views for Untitled Mario film rose to thousands. Delete it after it decreases. 2NumForIce (speak&#124;edits) 19:26, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete both per WP:UFILM. In such cases, page views are irrelevant. Steel1943  (talk) 20:32, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Good to see someone for once address the point here. Right, so guiding the reader from an external link to their intended destination – while with a slightly confusing redirection message –, is better than guiding them to a blank, remote, no-page-here message with a link to the search result lottery. No?  J947  † edits 23:13, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete all per nom. Veverve (talk) 22:44, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete and keep per EurekaLott. Regardless of what UFILM says, we should always do what is best for our readers. When thousands of readers are using a redirect that is unambiguous, the only justifiable thing to do is to keep that redirect pointing to the content they are looking for. Thryduulf (talk) 10:27, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Keep the second one. While I totally do understand the desire for tidiness here, every time I look at these discussions there ends up being no convincing refutation to claims about page views, merely a series of bare assertions or references to other discussions consisting of the same. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 03:36, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Have a look over here. It's rather relevant.  J947  † edits 04:04, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the argument, but I find it difficult to believe that whatever cache might be involved hasn't been updated since October. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 04:06, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep the second. I tend to ignore pageviews, but this amount I cannot. —Compassionate727 (T·C) 13:17, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete both The Mario movie is no longer untitled. It is established that it is "The Super Mario Bros. Movie". All of it's page views were converted into The Super Mario Bros. Movie once the page moved. It's a dead page.  Yoshiman6464 ♫🥚 19:04, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete first keep second per J947. Not in hundreds any more, but the second has got 80, 80, 70, 70 views in the past 4 days, and has been steadily decreasing. Alternately, relist and wait a week. Jay  💬 07:05, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Proposed 2017 'In/Out' Referendum on United Kingdom membership of the European Union
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  .  Jay  💬 08:25, 25 April 2023 (UTC)


 * <span id="Proposed 2017 'In/Out' Referendum on United Kingdom membership of the European Union">Proposed 2017 'In/Out' Referendum on United Kingdom membership of the European Union → 2016 United Kingdom European Union membership referendum (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

The rationale given for deleting Proposed referendum on United Kingdom membership of the European Union broadly applies here too; the fact this one specifies a year in the past in which no referendum took place makes it more confusing raher than less. When this was previously discussed at RfD in early 2016, discussion focused on the incorrect year, but today the use of "Proposed" is more misleading. It also seems plausible that a reader who follows a link to this might expect it to be about a proposed second referendum that would have followed the one in 2016. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 12:50, 10 April 2023 (UTC) Relisting comment: Relisting rather than soft deleting given the prior no consensus discussion. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 05:43, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Delete per nom. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 03:36, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Herwarth von Bittenfeld
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep  .  Jay  💬 08:16, 25 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Herwarth von Bittenfeld → Hans von Herwarth (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Appears to link to an arbitrary person, incoming link expects an article on a noble family Tollens (talk) 05:41, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep Target starts with "Hans-Heinrich Herwarth von Bittenfeld"; does not seem arbitrary at all. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 03:23, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

The El (disambiguation)
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was Keep.  In the absence of a separate disambiguation page, the current target (which includes all the pages suggested for a separate dab) seems to satisfy the arguments of those arguing for both keeping and disambiguating which between them have a clear consensus. Thryduulf (talk) 13:23, 22 May 2023 (UTC)


 * <span id="The El (disambiguation)">The El (disambiguation) → El train (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Not a valid term for or on the target page. There is no indication that the phrase "The El" specifically refers to trains. Steel1943 (talk) 20:06, 20 March 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 06:00, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Weak retarget to El, although the use of the definite article makes it seem somewhat implausible. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 16:17, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 'Retarget per Presidentman -- 65.92.244.151 (talk) 03:11, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * It is not clear why created this. The El targets Chicago "L". Looking at the history of The El, it was never a dab, so not sure why we need The El (disambiguation). El won't make a target because of the definite article per Presidentman.  Jay  💬 07:56, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Retarget The El to El train as no primary target. Delete The El (disambiguation) as redundant. The El train dab is fine as it is, and I don't think a split is required. Add "The El" to the lead of the dab. Jay  💬 02:21, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 05:14, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Disambiguate: From my research it seems like the only things consistently referred to as "The El" are elevated trains. Everything else for "The El" that I have found otherwise seems to be a WP:PTM, for example, The El Paso Kid. While this is a slightly unconventional redirect, it does redirect to a DAB page, just not one with the same title as the redirect, but it's similar, and I think there is some utility in it. Having said that, the page it targets to also includes train lines that would not be referred the as "The El" itself. I think it would make most sense to move Market–Frankford Line, Chicago "L", and Elevated railway. After the splitting of El train out, it would probably make sense to move that to L train and possibly delete or retarget the redirect, but that's outside the scope of this RfD. <b style="color: #ea5a5a;">Tartar</b>Torte 13:24, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Disambiguate along the lines proposed by TartarTorte. —Compassionate727 (T·C) 13:25, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Retarget The El to El train and delete retarget per below this per Jay -- I don't see any reason that the Chicago L would be any more of primary topic than the MFL, I agree with TartarTorte that only railways are referred to by "the El", and I find it a complete non-issue that the name only applies to a subset of the articles (especially since "the L" can easily be misheard and the same can apply to other dab redirects.)  eviolite   (talk)  00:59, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep (unless a viable separate disambiguation page is drafted) - regardless of whether or not The El is retargeted to El train, this redirect should be kept. If The El is kept as targeting Chicago "L", then this disambiguation is necessary as it could refer to other trains on that page. If The El is retargeted to the disambiguation page then of course this should be kept as a link to a disambiguation page. "Redundant" is not a reason to delete a redirect with a disambiguator. A7V2 (talk) 01:45, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
 * That's fair, it completely slipped my mind. I've changed my comment accordingly. eviolite   (talk)  12:40, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Indivisible Productions
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep  .  Jay  💬 08:12, 25 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Indivisible Productions → Chris Pratt (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Please delete this redirect. There is no mention of Indivisible Productions in the target article about Chris Pratt. 2607:FEA8:761B:C900:D82D:6B98:AC2D:981C (talk) 17:58, 10 April 2023 (UTC) Relisting comment: Procedural, not tagged for discussion. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗  plicit  05:08, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete - It is not mentioned anywhere, so I agree with you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.209.40.250 (talk) 15:53, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Keep: Chris Pratt's article now has a mention of Indivisible Productions: "In February 2020, Pratt founded the production company Indivisible Productions. It's first project, The Terminal List which stars and is executive produced by Pratt, was released on Amazon Prime Video on July 1, 2022." vistadan  10:55, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep: Per vistadan - target now includes mention of the subject of the redirect. Tollens (talk) 04:04, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Benalia
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 April 25%23Benalia

Avernus (Dungeons and Dragons)
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep  .  Jay  💬 08:07, 25 April 2023 (UTC)


 * <span id="Avernus (Dungeons and Dragons)">Avernus (Dungeons and Dragons) → Outer Plane (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]
 * <span id="Avernus (Dungeons & Dragons)">Avernus (Dungeons & Dragons) → Outer Plane (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Not mentioned at target. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 02:23, 11 April 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <b style="color:blue; text-shadow:cyan 0.0em 0.0em 0.1em;">CycloneYoris</b> <b style="color:purple">talk!</b> 04:03, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Baldur's Gate: Descent into Avernus While thematically Avernus is (possibly the most relevant) part of Baator and therefore contentwise the current redirect makes sense, it is not mentioned there, and possibly does not need to be added. It is defined at Baldur's Gate: Descent into Avernus, which links to the Nine Hells, so currently that makes sense as a target. Daranios (talk) 07:36, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Keep as I added a mention to the article. BOZ (talk) 06:19, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep and specify to Outer Plane, as it has been added to the article. Daranios (talk) 07:25, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Alternative theories of the Outer planes
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 April 25%23Alternative theories of the Outer planes

Etiene
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 April 25%23Etiene