Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 August 30

August 30
This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on August 30, 2023.

English bias
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 September 7%23English bias

Anne Shirley-Cuthbert
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep  . The argument that this name is more closely associated with the TV show stands. signed,Rosguill talk 02:34, 7 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Anne Shirley-Cuthbert → Anne with an E (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

I created this redirect just now as another editor changed the links in the television show's article, but I'm not sure about this treatment or even if the redirect should exist at all. Anne Shirley is the titular character of the famous Anne of Green Gables series, but only ever appears with a hyphenated surname within the alternate universe of the CBC/Netflix series. The character's bio doesn't cover this but the background of the change is noted in the episode synopsis for the series' second episode, which is why I chose that target, but I'm wondering if it should point to the character regardless, or if it's a minor point and the redirect should be deleted since our articles don't directly explain it. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 17:11, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Support. Someone typing in the hyphenated name is most likely to be looking for the TV series. Rreagan007 (talk) 15:55, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Welsh valleys
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep  . (non-admin closure) Edward-Woodrow :) [ talk ] 23:30, 6 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Welsh valleys → South Wales Valleys (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

While I’m not familiar with Welsh geography, it does seem to be the primary topic for valleys in Wales. However, there may be other less notable valleys in Wales, from a cursory search, Conwy Valley is an existing redirect to another valley. If so, disambiguation may be needed. Fork99 (talk) 17:08, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Note - fixed the nomination, I don't know what went wrong there. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 17:12, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks, the Page Curation tool seems to be broken (still getting the hang of it), I saw it happen earlier today to a previous nomination by someone else as well. Also as an additional note, Conwy Valley happens to be in northern Wales according to River Conwy. Fork99 (talk) 17:16, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep - target notes that the South Wales Valleys are commonly known as "The Valleys", and this article is the target of The Valleys. The disambiguation page The Valley (disambiguation) has a list of places known as "The Valley", only one of which (this one) is Welsh. I think that's a good argument for WP:PTOPIC. If there are other notable Welsh valleys then I'd expect to see a list of them, but that doesn't exist at least at List of valleys in Wales, List of valleys in England, nor List of valleys in the United Kingdom (nor at "list of valleys of x" titles). I don't think there's any ambiguity here. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 17:29, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * 'The Welsh valleys' is a term reasonably commonly encountered and 99 times out of 100 the speaker/writer is most certainly referring to the South Wales Valleys, not to valleys in Wales in any general way. Geopersona (talk) 19:27, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Polly Justice
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  .  Jay  💬 20:57, 6 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Polly Justice → List of Ace Attorney characters (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

This character is never referred to by that name. QuicoleJR (talk) 16:57, 30 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Just To Take A Guess, I Believe It's Referring To How The Character Trucy Wright Would Refer To Apollo Justice As 'Polly' At Times. I Agree On The Idea Of Deletion; Although It Does Get Me Thinking As To Why A Redirect Would Have Been Put Here Over Putting It On Polly Or It's Disambiguation Page. (Sorry If This Is Formatted Wrong Btw I Don't Usually Comment On These) MJB20077 (talk) 20:56, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Madame Lovetap
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . As an unopposed deletion nomination.  Jay  💬 20:54, 6 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Madame Lovetap → List of Ace Attorney characters (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Not mentioned in target. QuicoleJR (talk) 16:53, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney(Minor Characters)
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  .  Jay  💬 20:52, 6 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney(Minor Characters) → List of Ace Attorney characters (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Parentheses typo. QuicoleJR (talk) 16:51, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom, implausible. Utopes (talk / cont) 20:08, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I will also comment that this seems to be the original name of the previously-existing main article of "Minor characters in Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney" and was created as a redirect via a page move. Nevertheless, I feel it should be deleted, and also that article has had its name changed to the redirect's current target. Utopes (talk / cont) 20:10, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Angry Sun
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was disambiguate  . (non-admin closure) Edward-Woodrow :) [ talk ] 23:31, 6 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Angry Sun → Characters in the Mario franchise (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Not mentioned in target, and does not meet inclusion criteria. QuicoleJR (talk) 16:10, 30 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. This redirect was seemingly marked for deletion back in 2018 but didn't end up deleted (unless I'm misreading the close note?). 〜 Askarion   ✉  00:21, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I think it was deleted and later recreated. QuicoleJR (talk) 16:55, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * It was deleted, and then later someone else created a new redirect and asked for the history to be restored. It's actually been deleted twice: see Redirects for discussion/Log/2009 August 9, plus a third time that looks like it was a mistake. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 20:43, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Retarget to List of Star Blazers episodes, absent any better targets. This is the title of episode 18 in that season, plus maybe having it point to something will prevent it being recreated as a redirect to the Mario enemies list again. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 20:45, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Disambiguate per comments below and the drafted dab. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 18:55, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Disambiguate drafted underneath for evaluation. Yes, it's a 2DAB, but it's also confusable with "Angry Son" which has 2 more values. -- 67.70.25.175 (talk) 04:43, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Disambiguate per draft. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 09:36, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

List of minor characters in the Star Fox series
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep  .  ✗  plicit  23:24, 6 September 2023 (UTC)


 * List of minor characters in the Star Fox series → List of Star Fox characters (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Old page-move trash. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:59, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep - harmless, points to the correct target. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 16:37, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep per Ivanvector. This is the most plausible target. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 17:12, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * It is not a list of minor characters. Mostly major characters are listed, with very few minor ones. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:16, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The distinction between major and minor characters appears to be fairly subjective. A reader looking for a list of minor characters in this series I don't think would be surprised to find a list of characters in the series minor or otherwise. It has information relevant to the query. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 17:31, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete or weak retarget to the supporting characters section of the same article, if this happens to survive RfD. The title may fall into fancruft territory; there's probably a star-fox wiki that has a better list than we would have on wikipedia. At the very least though, because there happens to be a supporting characters section inside the article, pointing the redirect to that relevant section is an improvement to the status quo. I definitely think this redirect should be deleted, but at the VERY least this if this redirect stays, it should point at the subsection rather than the entire article (which discusses more than just the "minor characters"). Utopes (talk / cont) 20:18, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep per Ivanvector and Presidentman, and anchor the redirect to the § Supporting characters section. 〜 Askarion   ✉  16:37, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep. No reason to delete. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 09:38, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Vixy Reinard
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 September 9%23Vixy Reinard

Slippy
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 September 6%23Slippy

DHT insensitivity syndrome
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . signed,Rosguill talk 02:31, 7 September 2023 (UTC)


 * DHT insensitivity syndrome → 5α-Reductase 2 deficiency (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Misleading and incorrect redirect—the linked to article is about not producing DHT rather than being insensitive to its effects. Confusing to readers given that DHT is an androgen and androgen insensitivity syndrome is a different thing. Not a likely search term since it does not exist outside of wikipedia. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  14:00, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * DHT insensitivity is a term to describe a resistance to dihydrogen-testosterone. While has zero results on google,  in reference to 5α-Reductase 2 deficiency does have results. There is also a reference to "DHT insensitivity" in reference to 5α-Reductase 2 deficiency in Modelling neurodegenerative diseases in human iPSC-derived neurons which describes localized cell resistance to DHT, it does not reference genital undermasculinization however this is in reference to cells with 5α-Reductase 2 deficiency, as cells can loose DHT receptors, in a similar way that old age can cause X0/XY. This name is consistent with Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, individuals with androgen insensitivity have a mutation on androgen receptors that make the body unresponsive to androgen's, the same effect happens with 5α-Reductase 2 deficiency. It's not a misleading use of the term, the term "insensitivity" in a medical context refers to a body inability to respond to a hormone, see as an example insulin insensitivity as an example. The term "insensitivity" in a medical context does not refer to a lack of production. Des Vallee (talk) 14:34, 30 August 2023 (UTC)


 * I don't think what you wrote is accurate. If the redirect should exist at all, it should redirect to Androgen insensitivity syndrome. People with AIS are resistant to all androgens including DHT. People with the redirect to condition have normal sensitivity to androgens, including DHT. They just don't produce as much as is typical. Per the example you suggested, insulin resistance is a pathological condition in which cells either fail to respond normally to the hormone insulin or downregulate insulin receptors in response to hyperinsulinemia. that is not what happens in 5-alpha reductase deficiency, which would be analogous to type 1 diabetes where insulin is not produced. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  17:53, 30 August 2023 (UTC) Edit :I checked the source you linked, it says nothing about 5α-Reductase 2 deficiency. Internet results are mostly about genetic susceptibility to androgenic alopecia, which is not a syndrome. So, the current target is bad and the redirect should be deleted. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  19:09, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per buidhe. I could not turn up any connection between these terms, and the existence of such an imprecise and misleading connection is unlikely. I could not turn up a better target article, and I think it's unlikely anyone would use this as a search term. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 19:21, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:R from deadname
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 September 7%23Template:R from deadname

Although I Am Not a Hero
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  .  ✗  plicit  12:35, 6 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Although I Am Not a Hero → List of programs broadcast by JTBC (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

not mentioned at target article -MPGuy2824 (talk) 11:33, 30 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:R. This is a television series scheduled to be broadcast in 2024. It is mentioned nowhere in English Wikipedia, and only briefly on two actors' pages at Korean Wikipedia. This should remain a redlink until someone creates an article on it. In particular it should not be retargeted to the page of any individual actor who has been cast in it. 59.149.117.119 (talk) 04:20, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Mob theft
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  .  ✗  plicit  12:35, 6 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Mob theft → Flash rob (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

This definitely can refer to the target that it is listed at, but also could likely refer to theft by the mob, but I could not find a good page to use in trying to convert to a WP:DAB, so I wanted to get the community's consensus on whether this should target the current target, which is definitely a meaning of this phrase, or be converted into a disambiguation page, and if so, what page should be disambiguated for theft by the mob. <b style="color: #ea5a5a;">Tartar</b>Torte 01:21, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 03:50, 23 August 2023 (UTC) Relisting comment: One more go owing to lack of participation. Also notified of this discussion at the target talk. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jay  💬 08:48, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete It looks like it should be about mafia graft -- 67.70.25.80 (talk) 05:02, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Delete per the IP. If meaning 1 is primary, redirecting to meaning 2 is always problematic, and if we can't retarget or disambiguate it, deletion is better than keeping.  Nyttend (talk) 10:21, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete. Only one passing mention in enwiki. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 09:51, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Country metal
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 September 7%23Country metal

Olveston House, Montserrat
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was speedy keep  . Nomination withdrawn. (non-admin closure)  J947  † edits 10:19, 31 August 2023 (UTC)


 * <span id="Olveston House, Montserrat">Olveston House, Montserrat → Salem, Montserrat (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Unsure what to do here. The current target page has no mention of the redirect name. However, a village called Olveston, Montserrat has information on the Olveston House. HOWEVER, Olveston House is actually physically located in Salem, Montserrat according to information on the page at Olveston, Montserrat. If this is accurate, I propose retargeting to Salem, Montserrat and the relevant information from Olveston, Montserrat moved over to Salem, Montserrat. Fork99 (talk) 08:13, 30 August 2023 (UTC)


 * You want this retargeted to the page it already targets? QuicoleJR (talk) 16:18, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * OH MY oops! Yeah I got super confused when I was having a look at this, thanks! Please speedy close this. Fork99 (talk) 16:20, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Electric grid security
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 September 7%23Electric grid security

Wikipedia:Draughts
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was no consensus  . No argument for harm has been given, but keep arguments equally fail to establish how it is useful. Further discussion of this obscure WP-space redirect seems an unproductive use of editor resources. signed,Rosguill talk 02:26, 7 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Draughts → Wikipedia:Drafts (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

This was the result of a 2014 redirect request.

The redirect proposer suggested that draught (an alternative spelling for the word meaning "a current of air", which is spelled "draft" in the States) justified the creation of this redirect. Since its creation in January 2014 to today, the page has received a total of 32 views. I think its pretty clear that this is an implausible search term, one from a term that has nothing to do with the word draft (when meaning "a preliminary piece of writing"). ~ F4U (talk • they/it) 01:43, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * So, what are you proposing, then? If you're proposing 'delete', then I'm opposed. To me, it's kind of an archaic, or literary term for checkers, and should redirect there. Mathglot (talk) 03:35, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Are you proposing a cross-namespace redirect to the article on checkers? There is no Checkers (although there used to be; this was an actual on-platform game of checkers played as a sandbox exercise, which was deleted in 2005). BD2412  T 04:20, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Draughts is not up for discussion (it redirects to checkers). Draughts is. Skarmory   (talk •   contribs)  04:24, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Oops. Thank you, Skarmory. Mathglot (talk) 05:33, 30 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Weak keep: I think the redirect doesn’t harm anything or anyone by simply existing. Maybe it harms people who can’t spell draft, but that’s another unrelated issue. It isn’t a cross-namespace redirect nor does anything of significance that I’m aware of, explanatory or otherwise related to ‘draught’ exist in the Wikipedia namespace. Fork99 (talk) 08:31, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep; harmless, and this is the original spelling of the word in all senses. If you find something else for which this might be useful, feel free to retarget or disambiguate it, or bring it back here.  By the way, why did you nominate WP:Draughts but not WP:Draught too?  Nyttend (talk) 10:11, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Retarget to WikiProject Beer with a hatnote to the drafts guideline. US and UK English aren't consistent on very many things, but two things that are consistent are that the word for a preliminary version of a written or artistic work is "draft" and the word for beer pulled from a tap is "draught". US English is less consistent on the second one, but it's a prominent and growing usage; meanwhile UK English uses "draught" for preliminary documents only in the context of technical drawings (i.e. blueprints; c.f. draughtsperson), and that's not the context here. The initial request was incorrect, unless we're making a Middle English Wikipedia. Nyttend's source for Australian English doesn't disagree, but Merriam-Webster goes into more detail on worldwide usage. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 13:46, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep as evidenced by draughtsman, it can be used for drafting -- 67.70.25.175 (talk) 05:48, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

England's Rose
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 September 7%23England's Rose

The Attack (TV Series 2015)
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 September 8%23The Attack (TV Series 2015)