Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 June 6

June 6
This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on June 6, 2023.

Jill Biden's husband
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep  .  ✗  plicit  23:44, 13 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Jill Biden's husband → Joe Biden (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Not erroneous, but ... not particularly likely either, especially due to the notability of the target. Steel1943 (talk) 21:32, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep - term exists in sources, e.g. . &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 22:36, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * That's so unfortunate and dumb. Add the fact this is a pointless WP:NEO. Steel1943  (talk) 23:06, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep per Amakuru. It's used as a nickname, it's not incorrect, so I don't see a problem with it. -- Tavix ( talk ) 23:48, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep - don't see anything wrong with it. Redirects are cheap.  Iamreallygoodatcheckers talk 16:19, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:CHEAP. As Amakuru notes, it is a phrase in use (albeit largely in jest). - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 21:16, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Divide and Conquer (Transformers episodes)
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  .  ✗  plicit  23:45, 13 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Divide and Conquer (Transformers episodes) → List of The Transformers episodes (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Erroneous, WP:COSTLY redirect due to the erroneous disambiguator: There are not "episodes" of this, just one episode. Steel1943 (talk) 18:25, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete. The redirect is erroneous as the nominator has explained. The proper redirect is at Divide and Conquer (Transformers episode). Some other user created the original article at the erroneous title first, I moved it later to the correct title. That's why Wikipedia is showing me as the creator of the redirect. J I P  &#124; Talk 20:46, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete not helpful and has no page views in last 30 days. Skynxnex (talk) 20:56, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per above: erroneous redirect with no pageviews. InterstellarGamer12321 ( talk &#124;  contribs ) 06:36, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Reign of Marcus
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 June 13%23Reign of Marcus

Dogfighting
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep  .  ✗  plicit  23:45, 13 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Dogfighting → Dogfight (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

I suggest retargeting to Dog fighting. I think that's the primary topic, and a quick Google search seems to confirm this. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 03:22, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep. I think a correct use (present participle/noun form) should take precedence over a spelling difference (no space vs. space). If desired, the hatnote at the current target can be expanded to provide a link directly to other most likely use (Dog fighting) to avoid users needing to go through the dab page. Mdewman6 (talk) 22:36, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * "Dogfighting" (no space) seems to appear 18 times in dogfight and 12 times in dog fighting, and I would argue most/all of the latter should be changed to "dog fighting" to match the title format. Of course, the problem here is that dogfight is etymologically derived from dog fighting, so natural disambiguation here requires hatnotes and careful attention to WP:SMALLDETAILS. Mdewman6 (talk) 22:39, 6 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep this as is per Mdewman6. To quote in reverting to the current target the second time, "dogfighting without the space [...] usually refers to aircraft." I'd also support updating the hatnote in the current target to include a link to the proposed target and correcting the instances of "dogfighting" without the space in the word to avoid users having to use the disambiguation page. Regards,  SONIC 678 23:03, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * This does not seem to be true. A quick Google search shows that most results for "dogfighting" without the space are for the topic involving dogs. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 02:27, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep at dogfight. Add R from gerund if that's the proper grammar term (can't remember). Add hatnote to dog fighting or dogs fighting.  AngusW🐶🐶F  ( bark  •  sniff ) 14:56, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

German cake
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was no consensus/disambiguate  . No consensus between disambiguation and deletion, but a consensus against the status quo. (non-admin closure) C LYDE  TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE (please mention me on reply) 22:51, 16 June 2023 (UTC)


 * German cake → German chocolate cake (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Is List of German desserts a better target? Searches for "German cake" in quotes do not seem to come up with pages for German chocolate cake. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 03:05, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep (probably?) I don't know as well outside the US, but I'd say that the current target is reasonable and perhaps add a hatnote to German chocolate cake about the redirect and a link to List of German desserts. I think searching, say, Google with quotation marks is misleading since most sources will refer to it as the full name but just typing "German cake" is a plausible search term for German chocolate cake. Skynxnex (talk) 14:43, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Weak delete for reasons:
 * "German cake" ≠ "German chocolate cake" exclusively (or at all) for the reasons stated by the nominator. In addition, "Spiegeleierkuchen", which in English is sometimes translated as "German fried egg cake", has the same first and last words as "German chocolate cake".
 * The article List of German desserts does not seem like a proper target for this redirect since:
 * The article does not have a "cake" section, leaving readers searching at various places in the article for a "cake" subject and:
 * There's no reason to believe that a reader is looking for a list of desserts when searching this term, given that "cake" is not exclusive to "dessert" either as a subtopic (a cake is a dessert) or at all ("cake" can be a subtopic of subjects not "dessert", and not all "cake" subjects can be classified as "dessert".)
 * ...Best just have search results help the reader at this point. Steel1943  (talk) 18:36, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Congratulations, you have made the first link and mention of Spiegeleierkuchen on Wikipedia. Which, for some reason, isn't mentioned in German Wikipedia either. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 00:47, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Yep, figure I'd link it to promote creation per WP:REDLINK. Well, might as well link Aprikosenkuchen as well, which apparently exists on Wiktionary. 😀 Steel1943  (talk) 00:56, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Changed my "delete" stance to "weak delete" since weak retarget to Kuchen per the below findings. Steel1943  (talk) 01:00, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Now "delete" per my comment later in this discussion. Steel1943  (talk) 20:35, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Now "delete" per my comment later in this discussion. Steel1943  (talk) 20:35, 14 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Comment I also discovered that Kuchen exists, which in the lead reads the German word for cake. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 00:44, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Disambiguate, I think all three options are plausible depending on context. -- Tavix ( talk ) 00:03, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
 * But "German cake" seems to be a mere PTM for German chocolate cake and a somewhat misnomer, so perhaps a better option is to retarget to Kuchen, which already has List of German desserts in the see also section, and add a hatnote to German chocolate cake if necessary. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 07:56, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I disagree with the PTM assertion. Here are some examples: "German cake actually has roots in the United States" "German cake was created in the United States" Recipe w/ three separate comments calling it "German cake". -- Tavix ( talk ) 15:03, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
 * All of the examples you linked use the full name in the title, i.e. the context was already previously given. Searching for pages with "German cake" in the page title, reveal results without a dominant topic. At best, if a disambiguation page is created, German chocolate cake should be in the "See also" section due to the reasons mentioned above. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 23:34, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Disambiguate - I agree, I think this seems like the best option. - jc37 00:21, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Disambiguate or weak delete  Delete  . Fwiw, when I think of "German cake", I'm definitely thinking of Black forest cake. Mathglot (talk) 18:08, 8 June 2023 (UTC) updated by Mathglot (talk) 05:46, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Disambiguate Per above, the least bad option here. 74.73.224.126 (talk) 22:10, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Which are the three options?
 * 74.73.224.126 and Which are your disambiguation options?
 * Which is/are the disambiguations option(s) other than Black forest cake? Jay  💬 10:35, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I assume you meant "of" instead of "are" ... but I'm sticking with "delete" per the above comments since the phrase "German cake" is apparently not a phrase which is exclusive to any of these options, so I don't believe a disambiguation page is the way to go. Steel1943  (talk) 20:35, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
 * No, you said, and my question to you was because I did not know which three options you were referring to. I thought "three options" referred to three entries in a disambiguation page that you had in mind. But now you say you are "sticking with" Delete. Do you mean to say you are changing your vote to Delete because your earlier stance was Disambiguate?  Jay  💬 05:11, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * The editor who said that was Tavix, not me. Steel1943  (talk) 12:25, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Pinging to clarify. 74.73.224.126 (talk) 12:35, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Extremely sorry for the mix up Jay  💬 14:12, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I have already shown that "German cake" can refer to German chocolate cake and is not a WP:PTM. The other options are List of German desserts for the general usage of "cakes that are German" and Kuchen for the direct German translation. -- Tavix ( talk ) 15:31, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I guess if there aren't any, it should be delete instead. Changed my vote above. Mathglot (talk) 05:46, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Kuchen and List of German desserts with a See also for German chocolate cake; I guess I should have made that clearer above. Probably should've added a weak there too.
 * Deletion isn't unreasonable, but because one of those is almost certainly intended and the search engine is so-so on its own, probably not best for navigation.
 * Redirecting to Kuchen is OKish with the hatnote, but because the list link is not obvious upon arrival, may still result in a navigational delay.
 * Redirecting to the list is a bit odd but workable; I guess both other possibilities could be hatnoted, but Steel1943's objection is fairly solid.
 * Keeping is defensible, a lot of people will be looking for German chocolate cake when they type that, nonetheless it can potentially confuse a good deal of searchers as well, probably fixable with hatnoting, but is it really primary?
 * In sum, no good options so disambiguation seems the least bad way to aid navigation here. It also offers the potential to add entries as more plausible targets are identified. Of course I may have missed something, and I also respect that it doesn't take much to nudge the needle here. 74.73.224.126 (talk) 06:10, 15 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Created a disambig at the redirect for the purpose of this discussion, but it is not a vote. Jay  💬 11:08, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

UserːEagledj/sandbox/John Warner White
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was Moved to correct namespace  . (non-admin closure) Skynxnex (talk) 16:36, 6 June 2023 (UTC)


 * <span id="UserːEagledj/sandbox/John Warner White">UserːEagledj/sandbox/John Warner White → John Warner White (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Why am I nominating this redirect? Look at the character after "User": it is not a colon, but instead the rare Modified Letter Triangular Colon. This means that the redirect is technically in mainspace. It's neither a plausible search term for a single person nor is it beneficial to, who cannot freely edit it or reach it from their subpage index. Dsuke1998AEOS (talk) 01:46, 6 June 2023 (UTC)


 * I don't know why that phonetic symbol came up when I typed a colon. I think my computer was on "international Phonetic Alphabet" instead of "Use native Keyboard". My mistake, I hope you can correct this. Regards,  Eagledj (talk) 12:37, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I think the best course of action is to move it to User:Eagledj/sandbox/John Warner White without leaving a redirect, which I requested here. Then this discussion can be speedily closed. Dsuke1998AEOS (talk) 13:26, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi all, just notifying everyone that I've completed the move that Dsuke requested. I think this should fully resolve the issue, but please feel free to ping me or drop a talk page message if there's anything else that needs to be done. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 13:46, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).