Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 July 21

July 21
This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on July 21, 2024.

Donald Kettl

 * Donald Kettl → Fels Institute of Government (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ retarget] /[ delete]  ]

No mention of Donald Kettl on the redirect target page. Kettl is no longer working at Fels Institute Johnj1995 (talk) 18:03, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Unreal engine
we should probably delete most of the other ones at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere?target=Unreal+Engine&namespace=&hidetrans=1&hidelinks=1 but I will open a rfd for them later — Preceding unsigned comment added by J2UDY7r00CRjH (talk • contribs) 17:41, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Unreal engine → Unreal Engine (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ retarget] /[ delete]  ]
 * Draft:Vengeance Engine → Unreal Engine (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ retarget] /[ delete]  ]
 * Unreal Engine (game engine) → Unreal Engine (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ retarget] /[ delete]  ]
 * UnrealEngine → Unreal Engine (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ retarget] /[ delete]  ]
 * Unreal technology → Unreal Engine (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ retarget] /[ delete]  ]
 * Unreal Engine Technology → Unreal Engine (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ retarget] /[ delete]  ]
 * Unreal Engine technology → Unreal Engine (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ retarget] /[ delete]  ]
 * Unrealscript → Unreal Engine (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ retarget] /[ delete]  ]


 * Comment: Tagged every single one of these redirects since they weren't tagged by the nom. CycloneYoris talk! 22:18, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Why? These all appear to be entirely typical redirects. Tollens (talk) 18:10, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * None of these redirects are used. "Unreal Engine Technology" is not a typical redirect. Neither is Draft:Vengeance Engine, which makes no sense at all. We should use WP:COMMONNAME, not Unreal Engine technology or Unreal Engine Technology. We should not use misspelled links links like "Unreal engine" or UnrealEngine. "Unreal Engine (game engine)" does not make any sense as there is no other unreal engine to disambiguate it with. It also leads to editors actually using this awful redirects. For example see: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mare_Nostrum_(video_game)&diff=prev&oldid=1235798234 which was using Unreal Engine 2.5 instead of just Unreal Engine 2.5 (Unreal Engine 2.5). why should we support this kind of usage? What benefit is there to having all these inaccurate redirects? J2UDY7r00CRjH (talk) 18:21, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Looking at WP:RFD, some of these fall under "The redirect might cause confusion." Specifically Unreal Engine Technology, Unreal Engine technology and Unreal technology which are not WP:COMMONNAME and are not terms I have seen any RS or Unreal Engine itself use to describe Unreal Engine. Additionally Draft:Vengeance Engine is misleading at best as it is not a real engine. UnrealEngine is also misleading as one might think that is how it is spelled, and to a lesser extent Unreal engine as well. J2UDY7r00CRjH (talk) 18:28, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Just as further proof that these redirects are confusing people, I found this wikilink in https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_banned_video_games_by_country&oldid=1235709794:
 * > a court found that Silicon Knights had plagiarized Epic Games' proprietary Unreal engine.
 * If editors are purposefully changing Unreal Engine to Unreal engine (incorrect), then we should definitely not support that usage with a redirect as it will further this inaccurate usage. J2UDY7r00CRjH (talk) 19:11, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Another example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-Men_Origins:_Wolverine_(video_game)
 * The game was developed primarily by Raven Software through the use of Unreal Engine technology.
 * permalink https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=X-Men_Origins:_Wolverine_(video_game)&oldid=1223802693
 * I think these examples show that these links are confusing to editors and we should not use them as per commonname. J2UDY7r00CRjH (talk) 21:15, 21 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Keep UnrealEngine, Unreal engine, and Unrealscript. These are common mistakes in editing (WP:RKEEP point 2). They are also common mistakes or shortcuts in searching (point 3) and in navigating by typing URLs (which should be mentioned in point 3 but isn't). Jruderman (talk) 01:35, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment: I want to emphasize that WP:RKEEP point 2 considers the prevention of red links to be a net benefit. J2UDY7r00CRjH, if you're concerned about the effects on typo longevity, I suggest categorizing the redirects, then working in other venues to leverage certain rcats such as for making encyclopedia-wide improvements. See e.g. this feature request and this archived bot request. Jruderman (talk) 01:35, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment: Unrealscript and Draft:Vengeance Engine are actually redirects to sections of pages. I have updated the nomination above to show the full targets. Jruderman (talk) 01:35, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment: On Unreal Engine (game engine), I added . There are over 30,000 such redirects, so I suspect this isn't a reason for deletion by itself. Jruderman (talk) 01:35, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I'd encourage you to have a look at WP:RPURPOSE. You've made a pretty convincing argument for keeping several of these redirects here above. WP:CNAME applies to articles themselves, not redirects, and the fact that people are using several of these terms, even if they are incorrect, is reason to keep the redirects as they are useful, not to delete them. I see four groups in the list presented:


 * Unreal engine, UnrealEngine, and Unrealscript are strong keeps. They are either alternative capitalizations or reasonable typos that will help in linking, and very much core reasons in WP:RPURPOSE.
 * Unreal technology, Unreal Engine Technology, Unreal Engine technology are plausible search terms, and are good candidates to keep.
 * Unreal Engine (game engine) is an unlikely search term given the paranthetical disambiguation, but I'm not sure we should delete it as per Jruderman's third comment. I'll withhold judgement here.
 * Draft:Vengeance Engine should be deleted, it's a cross namespace redirect. It should be noted that the articlespace version is a redirect to Irrational Games. A Google search says that the Vengeance Engine is a derivative of UE2 that was created by Irrational. If for some reason we are keep it, I would suggest a retarget to the Unreal Engine 2 article specifically.


 * I would suggest to the closer that a new RfD be held on Vengeance Engine to discuss if that redirect be retargeted to Unreal Engine or to Unreal Engine 2 should the draftspace redirect be deleted as a result of this discussion. Then again, NOTBURO.  Ham  tech  person  02:25, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
 * This is my first time in the redirects forum and you're right, being a new contributor, I'm not familiar with a lot of the rules. In fact, I initially just blanked these pages and asked someone to delete the page in the comment history, which I now understand is not allowed. Reading these rules, I take issue with some of them. I wouldn't call any of these alternative capitalizations: they are typos. And I don't see why we should make redirects for every typo. That implies that every page should have a redirect with various capitalizations of the entry name. If nobody is using these redirects then I don't see a need for them to fix non existing typos. In any case I think it is better to have a redlink than have a typo because 1. someone will see the red link and fix it 2. Some people will see the blue link with a typo and think it is correct. This is in line with the reasoning given here: "The redirect might cause confusion." Also, I disagree that Unreal technology, Unreal Engine Technology, and Unreal Engine technology are plausible search terms. Looking at Google Trends, it doesn't seem anyone is using these search terms. I'm not aware of any such term being used by reliable sources or unreal itself or really anyone at all using it. I certainly don't see why we need a redirect for a misspelling of a possible search term for this page. J2UDY7r00CRjH (talk) 03:00, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
 * To get a sense of which variants are usually considered redirect-worthy and which aren't, you can check the examples in WP:RTYPO and WP:RCAPS. Jruderman (talk) 03:55, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The line between and  can be blurry sometimes. In "Epic Games' proprietary Unreal engine", perhaps the author is treating "Unreal" as a name and "engine" as a generic noun. But the distinction doesn't really matter at RfD because the reasons for having the redirect are similar: helping users reach the article they intend to reach. Jruderman (talk) 04:10, 22 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Meh on Draft:Vengeance Engine as drafts aren't indexed by search engines and it isn't in mainspace, don't care either way (side note: Vengeance Engine and Vengeance engine currently go different places which certainly shouldn't be the case), as well as Unreal Engine (game engine) as typically redirects from unnecessary disambiguation pages have a base title that could reasonably refer to more than one thing but the redirect certainly isn't harmful. Keep the rest as either alternative capitalizations or reasonable search terms. Tollens (talk) 04:29, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Template:Footer Olympic Champions C-1 Slalom

 * Template:Footer Olympic Champions C-1 Slalom → Template:Footer Olympic Champions Men C-1 Slalom (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ retarget] /[ delete]  ]

It is unclear why this should redirect to Template:Footer Olympic Champions Men C-1 Slalom and not to Template:Footer Olympic Champions Women C-1 Slalom which is available since 2020. Ymblanter (talk) 14:46, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Tax cuts for the rich

 * Tax cuts for the rich → Trickle-down economics (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ retarget] /[ delete]  ]

Should probably be deleted as non-neutral and poorly matched. While "tax cuts for the rich" are sometimes promoted as a method of trickle-down economics, they really aren't the same concept. Redirecting to tax cut does not make a lot of sense either. Jruderman (talk) 09:56, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Spend more money on public education

 * Spend more money on public education → Education_in_the_United_States (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ retarget] /[ delete]  ]
 * Public schools are underfunded → Education_in_the_United_States (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ retarget] /[ delete]  ]
 * Underfunded school system → Education_in_the_United_States (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ retarget] /[ delete]  ]
 * Underfunded schools → Education_in_the_United_States (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ retarget] /[ delete]  ]
 * Crumbling schools → Education_in_the_United_States (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ retarget] /[ delete]  ]
 * Education crises → Education_in_the_United_States (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ retarget] /[ delete]  ]
 * Underfunded public schools → Education_in_the_United_States (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ retarget] /[ delete]  ]

Nominating to delete: unused, non-neutral redirects to a US-specific article. Wikipedia does not have a general article about "school funding"; neither Education policy nor Educational inequality nor List of countries by spending on education as percentage of GDP seem like good retargets. An identical redirect from "Underfunded public school system" was deleted in 2022. &mdash;&thinsp;Jruderman (talk) 09:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Roman Palestine (disambiguation)

 * Roman Palestine (disambiguation) → Syria Palaestina (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ retarget] /[ delete]  ]

Does not redirect a disambiguation page. This redirect has a complicated page history and might have attribution issues, and is therefore not eligible for WP:G14. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 08:23, 21 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Delete, not needed anymore, there is an article called Roman Palestine now. Selfstudier (talk) 10:44, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Flesh engine

 * Flesh engine → Unreal Engine (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ retarget] /[ delete]  ]
 * Flesh Engine → Unreal Engine (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ retarget] /[ delete]  ]

Not mentioned at target, nor any other article as far as I can tell, and I can't seem to find anything online indicating that this exists. Tollens (talk) 08:04, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Sharp Willcom D4

 * Sharp Willcom D4 → Ultra-mobile PC (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ retarget] /[ delete]  ]

Article was blanked and redirected, but target does not seem to mention this. 1234qwer1234qwer4 15:17, 13 July 2024 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris talk! 06:32, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Revert and send to AfD per WP:BLAR. Thryduulf (talk) 18:04, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Shadow Mario

 * Shadow Mario → List of Mario franchise characters (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ retarget] /[ delete]  ]

This redirect originally targeted Bowser Jr. before it was converted into a redirect to the current target, where it is not mentioned. Shadow Mario is a form of Bowser Jr. who appears in Super Mario Sunshine. Mia Mahey (talk) 02:49, 21 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Retarget to Super Mario Sunshine. If still not mentioned in the target I suggested, delete for now. 88.235.215.238 (talk) 05:32, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Super Mario Sunshine, where the subject is mentioned and plays a role in the game's plot. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 16:16, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Washington, Maryland

 * Washington, Maryland → Fort Washington, Maryland (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ retarget] /[ delete]  ]

This error can plausibly refer to Fort Washington or Washington County, so delete and let the search results take care of it. Queen of Hearts &thinsp;talk 02:24, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Ambiguous. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 17:39, 21 July 2024 (UTC)