Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2007 December 27

= December 27 =

CompactFlash vs SecureDigital
Assuming the camera can use either one, which of the two flash memory cards are best for DSLR's when one is trying to maximize write speed, transfer rate and reliability? As well, which one tends to be more expensive? Thanks. Acceptable (talk) 02:15, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * CompactFlash is typically more expensive than SD, but the prices are usually close enough that the cheaper one is usually the one that's on sale right now. Speed depends on the speed rating of the specific card you purchase.  Higher speed grades usually come out in CompactFlash first, but unless you're doing professional sports photography, current high-speed cards are fast enough.  Reliability depends more on brand than on format: they've both got the same chips inside. --67.185.172.158 (talk) 02:31, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Another Blackberry Pearl Question
What is a good, free dictionary app for the blackberry pearl? Thanks to everyone who helps out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.239.184.31 (talk) 02:36, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Microsoft Word documents as RTF
When I scan a document to OCR it always comes out as a .rtf file. What are the advantages, if any, of an .rtf file over a .doc file. As well the text always has b*****y "frames" around which I have to get rid of.220.238.185.131 (talk) 02:51, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * RTF (See: "Rich Text Format") is a portable document format - understood by many word processors on many platforms (eg Mac, Linux as well as Windows). Word's native format ('.doc') is a Microsoft proprietary thing that changes in hard-to-predict ways from one version of Word to the next - and is not at all well documented.  Hence, your OCR software may produce RTF files in order to allow them to be read by all manner of word processors and on all sorts of operating system - or it may be that the OCR software producer didn't want to continually track and maintain different versions of his output software as Word changes from one revision to another. RTF is an ASCII-text format with 'markup' to indicate layout, style, etc.  You can create or alter RTF documents with a plain text editor - much as you can with HTML or Wiki's markup language.  This has some significant advantages in some text processing settings.  SteveBaker (talk) 07:29, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

L2 Cache
According to, the L2 Cache size is 4 MB. However, at least one seller sells a computer with a 1 MB L2 Cache. Does that mean they disabled the rest of the 3 MB for reasons (like suspected defect in the L2 cache) or is there a more sinister reason for it?

As a side-question, what do you think about the configuration? Kushalt 12:36, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Intel does sell lower-end chips with components disabled for the chips that don't pass QA. As for the configuration.. it doesn't look bad. BUT:
 * You're wasting your battery life on the DVD burner (just get a normal DVD reader drive and use a different computer/external burner for your burning needs)
 * 1GB of memory isn't enough when 256mb of it will be consumed by your integrated graphics chip
 * The 1MB L2 cache and low clock speed make that core 2 duo pretty crappy
 * Widescreen is stupid for your primary display, and it makes a laptop big and ugly
 * The max resolution is abysmal
 * TPMs are evil, you're wasting your money on them since you'd the heck better disable it in BIOS. For your leisure reading, see Next-Generation Secure Computing Base and Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion Act.
 * Loaded with crapware that's adding to the price
 * Toshiba's terrible
 * I don't believe the spec sheet that somehow all the components are driver-supported under OS X
 * What's eCost?
 * -- ⁪ffroth 21:03, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I sure will disable the TPM chip if it comes with the computer I buy. Thanks for the reply. Kushalt 04:32, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

What other option do I have beside widescreen? Is it very bad to have a widescreen? Kushalt 08:30, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

If a laptop manufacturer offers a certain video graphics card for a laptop, does that mean, I can have it installed myself from third party later on? Kushalt 08:33, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't try it. This is a question answered 1000 times over by internet forum support- NEVER. EVER. EVER. try installing a GPU for a laptop. Get it at the factory or live without it. How are you going to get power for it? Any guarantee that your BIOS will require anything less than a complete flash with a trade-secret gpu-aware BIOS from the manufacturer? Also if you order it without the graphics card, they may skimp on then-unnecessary cooling in favor of battery life, but expect instant overheats when you put that puppy in -- ⁪ffroth 04:42, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your answer. The problem is that Dell is charging USD 200 dollars for something that is available online for half that price ... (Suddenly I see why Dell is giving USD 200 in rebates and coupons) This is so frustrating! Kushalt 18:18, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It's available online for cheap because there's no demand :) -- ⁪ffroth 01:24, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


 * You found, for sale online, a graphics card for a laptop? That doesn't sound right. Could you link us? PS I disagree about the DVD burner, it'll use the same amount of battery power as a DVD reader unless you actually decide to burn with it. It's nice to have it there if you need it and most laptops come with it now anyway. Also -- crapware lowers the price, not adds. Preinstalls of trial software etc. are usually paid advertising that the computer manufacturer gets paid for. You can always uninstalll that stuff, its not the biggest deal in the world.  Equazcion •✗/C • 03:28, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I looked up the Nvidia website and it had price comparison for various online sellers. In retrospect, maybe it was not for laptops ... my bad

I never knew that video card upgrades are a no no for laptops. But I can add my RAM, right? If the laptop has two DIMM slots and I have used one of them with the RAM (1 GB), can add another one GB ram into it? Lenovo says it is 80 dollars for 1 GB PC 5300 stick. Surely they can do better than that.

As I see, it is not really obvious what I am doing. I am researching various possible options before I buy the laptop. Kushalt 11:45, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


 * If your laptop has 2 DIMM slots and only one is being used, yes, you can add a second stick of RAM. Just make sure you'll actually have a free DIMM slot, because laptop manufacturers often split the included RAM between the two slots (1gb of RAM = 500mb + 500mb). It might be best to buy the laptop that has the amount of RAM you want already installed.  Equazcion •✗/C • 11:49, 30 Dec 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the answer. I am still undecided on what laptop I want to buy ... Kushalt 13:12, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

How does this configuration look? Kushalt 13:20, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Not bad, but small screen and still only 1GB of RAM. For the money it's not bad though, for a thinkpad, which are pretty solid.  Equazcion •✗/C • 13:26, 30 Dec 2007 (UTC)

Then there is a [Dell|https://ecomm2.dell.com/dellstore/basket.aspx?cart_id=1002875557592&toEmail=] that costs USD 899.95 after taxes and coupon. What do you think of this one? Kushalt 14:01, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

cache problem using Wikipedia
A number of times I have had a 'corrupt' cache using Wikipedia, and have had to bypass the cache or clear the entire cache for things to look normal again. For instance today the names of all external links had an extra space in front of them, which was only resolved by clearing the cache. It is somewhat annoying because often I initially think the problem is in the article source, and look for it there in vain. I don't think it is normal to have this about every week. What could be the problem? Arthena(talk) 12:59, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Whilst I can't answer your question, in my preferences there is a checkbox somewhere that allows you to prevent Wikipedia from caching it's on Misc. I've got it enabled, the only difference is that it loads just a little slower.   Y  ДмΔќʃʀï →ГC←  12-27-2007 • 18:09:55
 * Oh that is useful! thanks. Arthena(talk) 23:16, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I have the latest build of Firefox and never experienced that and I used to use Opera and never got that either (all WinXP). You don't notice it on any other websites? What about other Wikis based on the same software? --Seans Potato Business 20:31, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I also use WinXP and a recent build of Firefox. I never noticed this on other websites, but there are no other websites that I use nearly as much. Arthena(talk) 23:16, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Firefox 3
''I asked this question a while ago but didn't get a clear answer, so I'm posting again. Thanx!''
 * The Firefox 3 betas are out and I've installed them etc. When they release new versions or non-beta ones will my beta rv 2 version automatically update via the "check for updates" or will I have to download and install it all over again? Thanks for your help! xxx Hyper Girl (talk) 17:19, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Please email security [at] mozilla [dot] com for authoritatie answers. HTH Kushalt 18:22, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if it is pertinent, but Mozilla Thunderbird 1.5.x.x did not update automatically as soon as 2.0.0.0 came. I am pretty sure that the beta version that you use will not automatically update as soon as the stable version comes out. Kushalt 18:26, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

As a Mozilla Firefox user myself, I must thank you for testing the beta version of Firefox 3. I hope you will report any kinks or errors you find. Wish you all the best, Kushalt 18:27, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Your Firefox 2 installation will probably get the update, leaving your beta as it is for you to uninstall. -- ⁪ffroth 19:06, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your help Kushal and ffroth! I guess I didn't want to get to settled in if I'd have to reinstall. Anyway, I haven't found any errors in the beta versions yet, although many of my add-ons aren't compatible - but on the whole it seems very stable (and I love the new "save your session" option when you close it!) Hyper Girl (talk) 12:22, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Hard disk partition question
I am using Fedora 8 Linux on a system with a 320 GB hard disk partitioned into four partitions: /boot, /, /home, and swap. All real partitions (not swap) have data in them, and / and /home have very valuable data. If I increase the size of the swap partition while all real partitions are mounted, is there any risk of damaging the data in those partitions? J I P | Talk 18:31, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Short answer, yes. Always back up your data before repartitioning your hard disk. Kushalt 18:40, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * It is most likely that you will get an error attempting to repartition a mounted disk. If, by chance, you don't, you will most likely end up with a new set of partitions with no data in any of them.  If, by pure luck, that doesn't happen, it is possible that you will corrupt some data in some partition that lost space to the new swap partition. --  k a i n a w &trade; 18:42, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * But no other partition will lose any space. I've accidentally left unpartitioned space at the end of the drive, and I want to grow my swap partition to fill that data. I won't touch any of the other partitions. J I P  | Talk 18:45, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * That is a completely different question. It is normal for this type of question to be "I want to change the size of the partition I'm using - will that cause any harm?"  Since it is swap, you should be able to remove it and re-add it.  I wouldn't do it while mounted though. --  k a i n a w &trade; 18:50, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I just grew the swap partition and it didn't cause any harm. All I have to do is turn swap off, grow the swap partition, and turn swap on again. Thanks! J I P  | Talk 07:20, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

No Mozilla x86_64 plugin for Sun Java?
Back when I was running a 32-bit Fedora 8 system, I used to be able to download JDK 1.6.0_03 from Sun and use the included JRE plugin in Mozilla Firefox. But the 64-bit version doesn't seem to have the plugin. Why the heck not? If it doesn't have one, I am left with two options: use the 32-bit Sun Java plugin, or use the 64-bit one provided by GNU. This creates a dilemma: whether to have decreased performance, or risk incompatibilities between Sun Java and GNU Java. What should I do? J I P | Talk 19:06, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * You cannot use the 32-bit plugin with 64-bit Firefox - regardless of what it is a plugin for. This is a common issue with many plugins, such as a lack of a 64-bit flash plugin.  The option I chose when I was using 64-bit Fedora was to install Flock, which is 32-bit, and use it when I needed the plugins.  Now, I just run 32-bit Linux on my 64-bit box. --  k a i n a w &trade; 19:28, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I don't want to install this Flock thingy, I'm happy with Firefox. So it looks like I'll have to use GNU Java. Well, it won't create many problems. All my real work with Java is with stand-alone applications anyway, and there I can use 64-bit Sun Java. J I P  | Talk 19:31, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

This is getting more difficult than I thought. Trying to use GNU Java (IcedTea) launched me to a whole host of plugin problems I don't know how to solve (yet). I have a backup of the original Mozilla Firefox installation, I'll have to restore it, reboot, and try again. If that doesn't work, I found instructions on how to revert to 32-bit Mozilla Firefox on 64-bit Fedora 8, and that way I can use my old 32-bit Sun Java plugin. J I P | Talk 22:50, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Ton_Roosendaal
In July 2002, Ton managed to get the NaN investors to agree to a unique Blender Foundation plan to attempt to Blender as open source.

Attempt to what? Release? --Seans Potato Business 20:29, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmmm - that description is a bit of a mess! What happened was that a group of OpenSource enthusiasts got together a campaign to purchase the sources for the blender 3D modeller from NaN and to release them as OpenSource.  Tens of thousands of people contributed cash and now the Blender Foundation administers the development of a completely OpenSourced blender.  There was one part of blender (the 'game tool') that was not purchased from NaN - but that part has subsequently been rewritten from scratch by volunteer developers. SteveBaker (talk) 23:46, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Google ranking of specialised directory websites
Over the years I have been using the internet, I have spent a lot of time and effort in building up and maintaining some carefully categorized and detailed collections of Favorite links for four or five areas of knowledge I am interested in. I must have thousands of these links in total. These range from things everyone would be interested in, to more specialised academic things.

I have been thinking about launching these as seperate specialised websites, so that I could hopefully earn some money from them through advertising. The links would be annotated and carefully categorised in a hierarchy.

I'm just wondering how Google would rank such a site, as I understand things called "link farms" get very low rankings, and I would be competing in a small way with Google itself. Would Google be prejudiced against specialised categorised directories like these, or by design give them low rankings? If so, is there any way to get around this? Thanks 80.0.124.228 (talk) 21:13, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The details of Google's Pagerank algorithm aren't public (and they change it a lot anyway). But yes, it does appear they consider such link-farms to be spam and grades them very lowly. There's no way round it (if there is, it'll only work for a while, then Google will figure out the scheme and probably blacklist you altogether).  The way to get decent pagerankings is to be a destination, not a conduit - to have worthwhile content of your own. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 21:16, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * You shouldn't be surprised that Google gives link-farms a low score. In a sense, you are competing with Google in the search/advertising business. SteveBaker (talk) 23:40, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Rather a redundant comment as my question says "...and I would be competing in a small way with Google itself." 80.2.217.154 (talk) 16:21, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

msdos batch file to choose from a long list of options?
PROBLEM: I have a script that runs on windows xp and it needs to present the user with a long list of options (e.g., "please choose one ISBN number from the list of 100 possible choices").

If I were building this in a "GUI" app, I'd give them a Combo box control with all the names in there so they would not have to type it in (and thereby potentially introduce a mistake).

Is there a way to do this or something similar from the MSDOS prompt? the goal is to give the users on Windows the best opportunity to enter the correct data without having to type in the full entry. I can use windows scripting host also, but I have to use the native stuff that comes with windows (no plugins or downloading widget toolkits possible). NoClutter (talk) 21:48, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Purely from a logistics point of view, how will you display 100 items in an MSDOS window? -- LarryMac  | Talk  21:53, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Hey who is asking the questions here? :) ... Since some command prompts have a "history" facility (that allows someone to review the last N commands they typed in or toggle through them incrementally with the tab key) this kind of thing is not outside the realm of possibility. Unfortunately, implementing cmd history is not the goal in this particular case. NoClutter (talk) 22:19, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * MSDOS's UI selection is (afaik) limited to the rather crude CHOICE command; I don't know if it goes to 100 - it's intended only for very simple menus. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 22:27, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Choice isn't even available in the XP command line, you have to play tricks with SET. There's a crude example here, but as noted below, there has to be a better solution than CMD.EXE -- LarryMac  | Talk  01:36, 28 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Really there has got to be a better way to do this than to use DOS batch file scripting, which is both very crude (very poor control) and ridiculously powerful (you can delete huge amounts of things without getting confirmation from the user)—the combination of the two make it a very dangerous language (you can easily accidentally wipe out your whole hard drive without really trying if you try to, say, delete some temporary files but end up executing it in the wrong directory).
 * You'd probably be better off finding someone who will help you throw together something simple. VB.NET has a free edition; it takes a little getting used to but for simple applications it is not very tough. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 23:30, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It's unlikely that you'll "accidently wipe out your whole hard drive" with batch.. -- ⁪ffroth 23:58, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Also might want to look into "HTML Applications" (aka HTA). Pretty easy to get into if you already know HTML and Javascript or VBscript. Can run without installing runtime DLLs etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.92.130.188 (talk) 00:56, 28 December 2007 (UTC)