Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2008 February 13

= February 13 =

PC Blackout
Hi, need some help with my PC(athlon64,1g ddr2 667,7600gt, Running WinXp Pro Sp2)

The computer suddenly switched off (happened twice in the last two weeks).. Normally, we had to unplug the system the reboot (doesnt seem to work if we tried to power on w/o unplugging). But this time, it refused to boot entirely... when I try to power on, the components try to startup (fans jolt, leds light up) then dies in less than a second...

Things I've tried: - check plug, surge supressor, psu doesnt seem to be burnt - check wiring to motherboard and other components (similar thing happnd about 2months and back then i traced it to the mouse cord getting shredded)

I suspect that the PSU might have wonked out for some reason, but am not so good at troubleshooting actual components.. any thoughts? TIA 159.53.46.141 (talk) 00:20, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Sounds like PSU failure, I've seen this before. Get a new one from an electronics retailer of your choice. Try to get a good brand, with at least the same power rating as the dead one. My experience was an overheating issue; make sure to clean the dust out of your machine, especially the processor heatsink, fans and PSU, with a can of compressed air from time to time. On the plus side, your data should be fine. Hope this helps. CaptainVindaloo t c e 00:41, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Vista Business vs. Home Premium
I've got a copy of Vista Home Premium installed on my desktop, and have recently acquired a Vista Business license. Microsoft's site shows that Business lack Windows Media Center; will this have any effect at all on my ability to stream media off this PC (through Windows Media Player's UPNP storage), or does it just effect Media Extenders? Are there any other features missing that aren't mentioned? And does the Anytime Upgrade just take a product key? -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 02:34, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, ignore this; doesn't appear that you can do the Anytime Upgrade from Home Premium to business, and no way I'm paying $220 to get "Ultimate". -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 05:57, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Careful careful about pirating, SP1 will break pre-SP1 cracks. It's naturally no barrier whatsoever but tweaking will be required D\=&lt; (talk) 21:25, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Who said anything about piracy? It's a legitimate Vista Business license. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 04:40, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I was referring to ultimate but OK D\=&lt; (talk) 16:27, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh yes, good point. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 22:20, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Using unlocked iPhones
To what extent can an unlocked iPhone do? Suppose if I buy an iPhone in USA, unlock it, and bring it to Germany and China. Will I be able to use it? Will I be able to make calls, surf the web, listen to music and etc... in Germany and China? 99.240.177.206 (talk) 13:05, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * If you buy a Sim card which gives you access to a GSM network in Germany or China then sure. Bear in mind that as the iPhone doesn't have 3G and not all networks have EDGE, you may find your web service quite slow. Nil Einne (talk) 17:06, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I believe you can use WiFi when you are at home or at a hotspot. Kushalt 17:54, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

As a side note, I wonder how the monthly bills for new contracts will change if and when Google and others come up with free ad-supported WiFi in major cities throughout the world. Kushalt 17:55, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * So if I get the SIM card, I have to get a contract with a mobile phone carrier right? Will the carriers in Germany and China "support" the iPhone? 99.240.177.206 (talk) 22:05, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by "support"? Any unlocked GSM phone should work in any GSM network (as long as they uses the same frequencies)(according to iphone page, it supports all 4 GSM frequencies, so there should be no problems). You might choose contract, or you might choose prepaid (which does not requires contract). -213.175.91.220 (talk) 07:21, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I Want My Own MMOG
How do I get one? I know I would need tons of servers and things, but what else? (If you're wondering what an MMOG is, look at VMKfor an example.--Princess Janay (talk) 15:36, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Do you mean you want to create your own? That's nearly impossible without a multi-million dollar budget and a large team of programmers and graphic designers. You may be able to create an extremely simplified version of one if you have a background in programming and a few spare years to kill, but you're unlikely to reach the Massive part of the MMOG. Maybe I misunderstood your question, but its really not likely to be doable. Mad031683 (talk) 16:36, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * MMOG is a pretty broad term - it needn't be the next WoW or even an MMORPG at all. All those browser-based online strategy games are a kind of MMOG, and it shouldn't be that hard to make one (getting people to play it is a different matter...). If you do want to make the next WoW, Mad is right - if you have to ask here, you're probably not going to make one any time soon. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 17:00, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

How would you make it massively multiplayer without either a. spending a lot and advertising or b. developing a great concept and hoping for a viral marketing? Either of the options requires a lot of money, I believe. Kushalt 17:52, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The second option, natrally, does not require a lot of money, unless the suggestion is that good ideas can only be bought (or only rich people have good ideas...). Let's take Scrabulous, for example: A rip-off of an existing idea, probably only a few thousand lines of code (probably all done by one person) and a zillion people playing it on Facebook. That takes care of all elements of "MMOG." Naturally it helps to be able to piggy-back on Facebook's servers... --Ben. 19:15, 13 February 2008 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.138.152.238 (talk)
 * I'll emphasize that taking a mediocre concept and making it look as if it is great, which is what people usually do, does require resources. Coming up with a truly great concept is rarer, but can cost virtually nothing. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 22:28, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I now get the message. However, imagine you are a creator of "the next big thing" mmog. You would have to be zealous to not let yourself get bought up by a big company or a Venture Capital. Kushalt 23:19, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Most people seem to agree that you will need some help to go from great idea to real product - getting a publisher, or working with a computer game publishing house seems like a good idea.. eg THQ,EA,Microsoft game studios etc etc it also depends on whether you aim is to get the thing made OR maximise your share of the profits..
 * In response to the original question - supposing you start of with 'just the idea' you'll need
 * Game code (programming)
 * Art assets (the graphics)
 * Sound assets (sound obviously)
 * Distribution method (either online or by dvd/cd)
 * Servers (already mentioned)
 * Payment methods (if subscription.. PayPal maybe? or..)
 * Advertising (at least at the beginning .. clearly succesful games start to advetise themselves)
 * You probably don't need millions of dollars/shiny glass beeds to make the thing .. Quite a small team can make a good game - however once popular such things do tend to become money sinks with ever increasing budjets andd teams producing ever diminishing benefits.. (last bit not neccessarily true)
 * Did I miss anyhting?87.102.115.36 (talk) 13:00, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Perhaps not exactly what you're imagining, but a MUD would be easily within grasp of a lone experimenter. 72.10.110.107 (talk) 19:16, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Apache HTTP server won't execute PHP on "localhost"
I just installed Apache 2.2.8 and php 5.2.5 on my laptop (OS: Windows Vista Home Premium) so I can preview php code without actually uploading my pages to a server and I can't get Apache to execute any php code. I tried this: and I get a blank page. Any ideas why? Thingg &#8853; &#8855; 16:12, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Check your apache config file, and see if any error messages are put out on server startup. It is hard to advise without more information since the setup of PHP+Apache is a fairly complex business JPilborough (talk) 17:39, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I would advise simply restarting the PHP setup process from scratch, adhering carefully to the instructions. I have never found WAMP configuration to be problematic provided I didn't start blazing my own trail through the process. &mdash; Lomn 18:45, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * What does the source of the "blank page" look like? If it is completely blank, it is most likely an error thrown by PHP and recorded in the error logs.  If it is the PHP source code then PHP did not parse the page.  This commonly happens when PHP is configured to ONLY parse filenames ending in "php" and the filename ends with "html". --  k a i n a w &trade; 18:52, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * WAMP not problematic? ARE YOU FROM THE FUTURE O_O In what version does php actually ever recognize mysql without battling your way out of dll hell? D\=&lt; (talk) 21:23, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I've installed Apache 1.x/2.x with PHP 4.x/5.x and MySQL 3.x/4.x/5.x plenty of times on plenty of Windows boxes. It's a common-enough process that the instructions are quite robust.  &mdash; Lomn 22:19, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I've set up WAMP 5 or 6 times- apache never causes any problems, mysql sets up perfectly fine, but PHP has never played well with mysql (and yes I know I have to uncomment lines in php.ini). I always end up having to add the mysql bin directory to the PATH and manually adding entries in php.ini, and this is over the space of 5 or 6 reinstallations of Windows D\=&lt; (talk) 16:25, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Flash drive and programs
as i move around a lot i've installed several programs onto my flash drive, and as i'm quite OCD about keeping files organized every things in folders, so to stop me going through lots of folders to find what i want i created shortcuts to the .exes on the root of the flash drive, but when i plug into different computers the flash drive gets assigned a different letter and the shortcuts no longer work. Is there someway i can change the path to shortcut to that then wont depend on having an actual drive letter typed in?--137.205.21.59 (talk) 18:31, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * You need to use relative paths in your shortcuts. So if the program is in X:\Programs\Company\super.exe, and the shortcut is just in X:, the path in the shortcut should just be be Programs\Company\super.exe JPilborough-Leave Message 19:14, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd suggest PStart. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Grawity (talk • contribs) 19:35, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

pokemon crater
My little bother plays an internet game called pokemon crater and recently we tryed geting to it but it always say this page can not be found. We tryed doing searches for it on different search engines. Does any one know how i can get to it, if they just dont have it any more or if they upgraded it to pokemon crater version7 and changed the addres. thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.235.169.189 (talk) 20:07, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * If you're talking about http://www.pokemoncrater.com, it does appear to have been down for some time, and I can't find any definite information on if or when it will be back up. On the bright side, the domain name seems to be owned by Nintendo, so they might do something interesting with it. On the not-so-bright side, the version of the site that you played on looks like it was owned by someone not connected with Nintendo, who took it down because he no longer had the time to maintain it. If the website does become available again, it may not have the game you enjoyed. -- Kateshort  forbob  20:58, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Linux/Booting
Recently I downloaded Xubuntu. I put it on a CD (when I did a window came up and said I would loose attachements but the contents of the file would not be altered). I tried to put it on my '98 Pentuim III Dell. I went to the boot menu and changed it to boot from CD. However, when I tried to boot it, it processed for a while then the screen came up and said "While initializing device VKD: Windows protection error. You need to restart your computer.  Press any key to continue." I pressed a key and it said "It is now safe to turn off your computer. I tried this a couple more times and the sentences "While initializing device VKD: Windows protection error. You need to restart your computer. Press any key to continue." Came up with a varying degree of completion.  For example, one time it just said "While init" and when I press a key it doesn't do anything.  I changed it back to boot from IDE-0,  which is what it was set to boot from before.  It did the exact same thing.  Other than boot from CD, nothing else has been changed.  By the way, I did download Xubuntu as a .iso file.  If anyone has any idea how I can get it to boot Xubuntu please let me no. (I think one of the attachments lost when putting it on the CD may have something to do with this.  I tried several different ways to put it on a CD though, and each time the box came up that said attachments would be lost.)  If not, maybe how to get it to start booting Windows again.  Thanks, Zrs 12 (talk) 21:20, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * What are you talking about, what is an "attachment"? That error message means the keyboard isn't working, but if Windows is telling you that then you have bigger problems- such as your BIOS not booting from the CD like you told it to. Are you sure you actually burned the contents of the image onto the disk and not the image itself as a file? Keep in mind that Windows can't burn isos on its own, you have to use actual burning tools like Nero Burning ROM. D\=&lt; (talk) 21:21, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know what an attachment is in this case. It just said I would lose them if I put the file on CD.  However, where can I get a program to burn isos? (I was just using Windows so it probably just burned the image.)  Furthermore, how can I get it to boot Windows again.  Anyway, I don't think the error message is about the keyboard because I can choose to boot it in DOS mode and it does just fine.  Thanks, Zrs 12 (talk) 21:58, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Take a look at List of optical disc authoring software; some of these are free (as in water). Windows should boot fine if you remove the CD from your drive, or if you set your BIOS to boot from the hard drive first. If that doesn't work you might have a serious problem. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 22:15, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Ooo, that's not good. I removed the disk and set it to boot from IDE-0 (default), and it still does the exact same thing.  Any ideas or has the computer just "kicked the bucket" so to speak? Zrs 12 (talk) 22:28, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Probably the boot loader got screwed up (though I can't imagine why). That's beyond my level of expertise, so you may want to wait for someone more knowledgeable - but putting the Windows CD and using the repair option might fix everything. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 22:32, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Alrighty, thanks. We got the computer from a guy though so we don't have the back-up CDs.  Anyway, to burn isos, should I just download an iso recorder? Zrs 12 (talk) 22:38, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Basically yes. Burning a simple iso is something any one of them should be able to do, so just pick anyone. Of course, you will then have to install and use it. The exact procedure can vary, but generally you should stay away from any "Data CD" option which will just copy the file to the CD, and look for "Copy CD" or "Burn from image" or something. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 22:55, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Before I discovered how very very very good the stipped-down Nero Burning ROM is, I used this powertoy- for xp/vista, it lets you right-click an iso and select burn.. it uses windows's own burning libraries D\=&lt; (talk) 23:55, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Cool. That's the one I got.  Well, it looks like that Dell is just not going to work.  I burned it correctly this time and it still won't boot from the CD.  Oh well.  Thanks you all, Zrs 12 (talk) 00:10, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Templates &userboxes
What s a template? How do you make a userbox? Chubb3 (talk) 21:30, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Although I don't advocate cross posting, this question is better suited for the help desk. However, you should see these links for complete information.  Template messages and Userboxes  Hope this helps, Zrs 12 (talk) 22:06, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Average pay for first line tech support in USA
Hi, Wikipedians

Okay, first up, I know the helpdesk doesn't do professional/legal/medical advice, but I'm just looking to get a rough idea of this, so any info would be much appreciated.

Also, I've chosen to put this in the computing reference desk page, as it relates to a job in a computing field, and I'm hoping there will be several people with relevant experience here.

All that being said.. Does anyone know what a typical hourly wage for a first line 'answer the phones/emails, do some minor troubleshooting, and direct the calls to the appropriate support team' kind of job would be in the Washington State area (or anywhere in the US for that matter), for someone with roughly 3 years of experience?

Thanks, --24.19.49.195 (talk) 22:16, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

As a rough guide, I would say it is between USD 10 and USD 20. Kushalt 23:14, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

At my university I think the part-time student workers at the help desk get paid minimum wage, which is a dismal 5 something D\=&lt; (talk) 23:52, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Could you remind me which state your university is in? Kushalt 02:43, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * No :) D\=&lt; (talk) 23:05, 14 February 2008 (UTC)