Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2008 July 7

= July 7 =

Document-centric XML database
Let's say I have billions biographical articles in XHTML format. They are all semantically tagged, for example:




 * Joe Snoopy Cool was a male British inventor who was born in India on January 1, 1900. He died in ...

Each file, originally written for human readers, contains exactly one person's biography and each person has only one biography (or one file). They are certainly not very friendly to a computer. I can build a relational database using data extracted from the properly tagged articles. However, it may be more elegant to use a XML-based solution. After all, you may add millions articles to this database each day and thank God you have a really fast computer.

Now I need to read the biographies (full text) of all Australian soldiers who was graduated from the Happy Monkey College of Sydney and died in the 1950s or all of Joe Cool's grandsons (they are all tagged). What are the XML search programs that I can use? -- Toytoy (talk) 03:22, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure I entirely understand what you want. Do you have a bunch of files in the above-mentioned XHTML format and you want to convert them into a relational database? Or into XML-format? Or what? --Oskar 03:37, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Querying XML documents tends to be referred to as a "twig-query". The XML can be reformatted into a tree of parent tags and child tags (the page itself being the root node).  If you've taken any computer science courses, you've worked with data trees.  Unfortunately, twig queries are slow and there is no standard (yet).  Also, about 90% of the work on making good twig query systems is being done in Beijing - so learn Chinese if you want to study the latest stuff.  I have a similar situation, but I don't use twig queries.  Instead, I use grep and sed.  For example, if you want to know the job of everyone with the middle name "Snoopy", you can grep for " .* Snoopy .* " and then sed "s/^.* //" and sed "s/ .*$//".  Of course, you'll pipe it all together into one line.  Then, use sort and uniq to get a unique list.  I've considered writing an SQL-like interpreter that produces the proper grep/sed command, but I've never had the time. --  k a i n a w &trade; 04:14, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I think I can implement the DB on a relational platform. But I think "twig-query" shall be much more elegant becaue you do not need to keep a separate catalog. If you create a new element (e.g.,,  , ...), it may be easier to update the XML-based solution to recognize the new element.


 * On second thought, I think I need to know some buzz words. How do people call this kind of search? What is the query language? What are the DB systems (commercial, open source, ...) that support this kind of search? -- Toytoy (talk) 05:31, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * If you want to put it in a database that makes it easy search for stuff like "Give me all people between the ages 30-35, sorted by their last name" or "Give me all the firemen and the police officers", you want an SQL database, such as MySQL (which is open source). You would probably need to write a little script that parsed the input-files and put them in the database, but once that's done, it's super-easy to do searches on the data (and very easy to export the whole thing to an XML-file). How skilled are you with computers? Do you know how to code? And what do you need this for, are you just looking to do one specific search or are you setting it up so that that you can search the data repeatedly? Is this for a business you're doing this? A little more details would be helpful --Oskar 07:13, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Wouldn't that grep only work if the name tags and the middle tags where on the same line? Seems to me to be a terrible assumption. --Oskar 05:21, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * You're right- awk is the tool of choice in this case. .froth. (talk) 06:19, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * You do know how to grep an entire file instead of line-by-line, don't you? Yes, awk could be used.  You could do it with just sed.  You could do it all in Perl.  Anyone else have one of the million possible ways to find and print text in *nix machines? --  k a i n a w &trade; 12:10, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Then why did they develop native-XML databases if you can search inside these XML files? -- Toytoy (talk) 15:47, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Psi-Ops problems
I recently downloaded a copy of Psi-Ops: The Mindgate Conspiracy for PC. I expected this to be easy to play, as my system can play Half-Life 2 (granted, on low quality settings) with good framerate. However, when I try to play, I experience massive problems with input lag: Namely, that it can take between 1/2-sec to, occasionally, 3 sec or more for my input to be recognized and the action taken. I even dropped the resolution to 800x600, and it didn't change a thing. Please, this is an excellent game, but I can't continue if I keep inadvertently dropping off a ledge for a 100-foot fall. I am running an Nvidia 6100 graphics card, AMD Athlon 64+ dual-core processor, and 2gb of RAM. 68.103.215.168 (talk) 02:50, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * All OVER google. http://forums.techpowerup.com/archive/index.php/t-3890.html .froth. (talk) 03:09, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * By the way, congratulations on hosing your system by installing StarForce. Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. .froth. (talk) 03:16, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Hold on a sec. The link you gave me (and everything else I can find) is about people running the control program for ATI cards. Could the problem on my end be with the Nvidia compliment? And if I do away with SF, does that mean I can't play Psi-Ops any longer? How do I go about nuking it? 68.103.215.168 (talk) 14:09, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Converting an M4A file
I was sent a file with an .M4A extension (same as MP4). I copied it to a CD but cannot play it on the CD player in my car, which is about seven years old. Any suggestions on how best to convert it to something I can play? I have a computer running Windows XP and Real Player but no special software. Matchups 03:02, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * You can't just burn data to a disk and expect it to be formatted as CDDA. Try downloading this MP4 splitter and installing the Audio component of ffdshow. Now you can use Windows Media player to burn the disk and WMP will automatically use Red Book formatting. .froth. (talk) 03:07, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * That seems awfully complicated. Probably the easiest way to do it is to import the file into iTunes, put it in a playlist, put a cd-r in your drive and press the "Burn CD" button. Easy as pie! --Oskar 03:13, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah if you use itunes. .froth. (talk) 03:17, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * True, but it's still easier than using WMP, installing mp4 splitter and ffdshow. One very easy to use program, that's quite handy for all your music needs! --Oskar 03:19, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * resolved I tried the iTunes idea but it said I didn't have the right XP service pack. But then I figured if iTunes could do it, maybe Real Player could too.  Sure enough.  And although it asked me to pick music from a playlist, I found that I could just drag and drop a file from Windows Explorer. Matchups 02:24, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

CSS em over px
What is the differences between "em" and "px" when witting in HTML and CSS; is there a preference between the two? ChyranandChloe (talk) 08:44, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * px is pixels - the fixed unit of size which graphics are rendered in. So an image or letter might be displayed as 7px tall, or 6 px tall, or whatever.


 * em (I think) is "multiples of standard spacing". So 2em is saying "use 2 x whatever spacing you would have normally used".


 * Check with others, but I think that's the difference. FT2 (Talk 08:52, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * An em is (related to) the width of a letter m! Not to be confused with the html em. 163.1.148.158 (talk) 09:09, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I figured "em" were more adaptable (in terms of broswer support) than "px", but I was looking for more or less a preference between the two. ChyranandChloe (talk) 09:58, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I prefer "em", because it can make changes easier. For example, if you have this css
 * then if you later decide that all the text needs to be bigger (or smaller), you need to change every occurrence of font-size. However, if you write the css like this
 * then you can change the size of all the text on the page simply by changing the body font-size. Of course, this assumes that you want to keep the same relative sizing.  Also, Internet Explorer used to have problems scaling if the font size was declared in pixels; that might have been fixed in IE7.  -- LarryMac  | Talk  13:15, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * then you can change the size of all the text on the page simply by changing the body font-size. Of course, this assumes that you want to keep the same relative sizing.  Also, Internet Explorer used to have problems scaling if the font size was declared in pixels; that might have been fixed in IE7.  -- LarryMac  | Talk  13:15, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * then you can change the size of all the text on the page simply by changing the body font-size. Of course, this assumes that you want to keep the same relative sizing.  Also, Internet Explorer used to have problems scaling if the font size was declared in pixels; that might have been fixed in IE7.  -- LarryMac  | Talk  13:15, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Always prefer using em ('m's) whenever possible. The space grows or shrinks as the user decides to enlarge or reduce the font size or page zoom. Use pt (points) to place objects in specific positions, it should provide good results in both screen and print medias. Avoid using px (pixels), it is a screen-oriented measure unit, not suitable for printing. -- Juliano (T) 14:57, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * As has been said, em will change based on your browser settings (specifically the font size), px does not. So keep this in mind when designating things as one or the other. Space between paragraphs, for example, should always be in em, not px, because if you make the text bigger (because you can't see tiny text), you'll want that space to change proportionally as well. If you have graphical elements that fit together, though, you need to use px on them, or else they'll all fly apart when enlarged (unless you are using Firefox 3, which seems to do enlargement as a form of zooming, last I checked). --98.217.8.46 (talk) 16:00, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I think this question is done. ChyranandChloe (talk) 20:18, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Windows XP Pro and Server 2003 Enterprise
I've been running XP Pro a long time on one of my machines. As I have to reinstall the box now (hardware failure/new components), I'm toying with the idea of trying Win 2003 enterprise as a workstation, rather than XP Pro. As an exceptionally heavily used box, the main incentives for this would be -
 * 1) Increased application and system memory limits (32 GB+ RAM, rather than the 3.2 GB limit of XP),
 * 2) Internal use of Storport rather than SCSIport for I/O (significantly increased SATA non-RAID disk speed),
 * 3) Better stability (BSOD reduction, shutdown tracking, etc)
 * 4) Better security
 * 5) Avoiding bloat or slowdown at OS level (always a risk, Vista is reportedly much less resource efficient; for all I can tell Server 2008 may be as well)

The focus governing component choices is stability, and raw speed/processing power - the machine runs several terabytes of storage via non-RAID SATA, and a quad core CPU on the most stable motherboard I can find, and handles a huge array of very processor-intense tasks for work use. Running slow is "expensive", falling over is "very expensive".

I was originally going to hold onto XP until ready to transition to *nix in a few years, but am instead now considering using 2K3 until then, due to these possible advantages (if it doesn't lose out to XP in other ways).

Since Win2K3 wasn't marketed as a workstation system, the question is,
 * 1) is there anything limiting in its use that might be a problem, such as software, or features and functions, that work on XP but not on 2K3,
 * 2) a sense of lower perceived speed on workstation/desktop software (browser, office type packages, and the like),
 * 3) areas of limited functionality compared to XP (due to it being designed for server rather than desktop usage), or
 * 4) advantages listed above that wouldn't actually be realized?

Thanks for any and all input,

FT2 (Talk 08:50, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I've installed Windows Server 2003 before and hardly noticed any differences between it and XP. IIS still has to be installed separately. Interfaces for managing servers are installed to the Control Panel, but the servers aren't. The main difference is that the Themes service is not enabled by default. This wasn't an issue for me since I disabled themes inside XP, anyway. As for stability, have you had a lot of BSODs inside XP? They are extremely rare in XP compared to older versions of Windows. For many people, they don't happen at all. Another difference is that Internet Explorer prohibits you from visiting sites outside your intranet, although this feature can be disabled.


 * That was a 32-bit version (Standard), though. 64-bit versions of Windows — like Server 2003 Enterprise — have to use an emulator to use 32-bit programs. It runs automatically, so you won't notice unless you go into the Task Manager. The system comes with 64-bit and a 32-bit versions of IE, since certain 32-bit add-ons won't work in the 64-bit version. There may be issues with 32-bit hardware drivers, too.


 * In addition, you might want to consider Windows XP Professional x64 edition. As a 64-bit OS, it can use more RAM.--Hello. I&#39;m new here, but I&#39;m sure I can help out. (talk) 17:41, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * BSOD is rare, but given significant uptime and heavy load, it happens occasionally and is worth reducing. x64 seems to be risking compatibility issues with some software more than 2k3 would (and if I ever add a new card, driver compatibility may also be an issue), which is my main concern there. It's mostly, is there much that works on XP pro, but won't work on 2k3? (For example, I discovered my anti-virus package won't - the commercial version is needed.) And how do they compare for speed and usability if the various "disabled by defaults" are enabled to match XP? That kind of thing. FT2 (Talk 20:13, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I didn't install very much on it aside from servers: just MS Office 2003 and 2007, Adobe Reader, Mozilla Firefox, Quicktime, and Putty. All of those worked like a charm. I hear that certain applications aren't supported though, like Photoshop. But you can get them to work using the Application Verifier utility from Microsoft.--Hello. I&#39;m new here, but I&#39;m sure I can help out. (talk) 22:47, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Live CD vs. live USB
If I take the files of a live CD and save them in a USB, a computer will not boot (even if it is able to boot from a USB stick). Why are the files in a live CD different from the files in a live USB? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr.K. (talk • contribs) 09:23, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The reason for this is that the CD has a boot sector, which cannot be copied simply by copying the CD's contents to the USB flash drive. I'm not that familiar with how booting from a USB flash drive happens, but I'd guess that even if you were to transfer the entire contents of a CD, including the boot sector, to the USB flash drive, it wouldn't work just like that -- the boot sector is located in a specific physical area of the CD, and unless there was some sort of an emulator program included on the USB flash drive, the computer wouldn't know to look for the boot sector data from the USB flash drive. I may be wrong, but I'm going to be a little surprised if I am. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 11:48, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Most linux live CDs have a script you can run, called something like "bootinst.bat" in DOS or "bootinst.sh" is Bash, to copy a boot sector to the USB drive. If you're looking for a good live USB, I'd go with Slax. It even has a prepackaged distribution to make a live USB download here Jessica  N10248  12:29, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I would imagine that booting from a usb drive is the same as booting from an internal hard-drive, with MBRs and such. I mean, they're both drives, why would there be a difference?. The ubuntu wiki gives instructions on how to make a usb-stick with ubuntu on it. Essentially, you just install Ubuntu like you usually do, but on the pendrive itself (with GRUB and everything). --Oskar 19:11, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

IRC shenanigans
I use ChatZilla as my IRC client. I have been banned from several channels based solely on this fact.

Is there a script, plugin, or option to change the CTCP VERSION reply, or disable it altogether?

I would greatly appreciate help. I asked on the Mozilla IRC network but nobody seems to be answering. 75.184.96.180 (talk) 10:36, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Double underscore (_)?
Why do some variables and other things in source code in, for example, Linux, have double underscores? --212.120.246.239 (talk) 12:00, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * This depends on the language. In general, a variable that begins with a single underscore is something that you shouldn't mess with.  A variable that begins with a double-underscore is something you really shouldn't mess with.  The exact reason could be that it is a system library variable or a private class variable (depending on the language, as I mentioned). --  k a i n a w &trade; 12:14, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah, so they use that symbol to underscore the fact that you shouldn't mess with it ? StuRat (talk) 04:07, 8 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I believe it is to make it unique. The idea is that you won't use an underscore variable/function in your own code.  So, there won't be any conflict with names.  Of course, that is limited to non-OO practices.  In OO, object scope takes the issues of common names away.  The underscores have a different meaning - still meaning "do not use this variable for whatever you like - it has a special purpose that you shouldn't mess with." So, it goes from an attempt to make it unique to a continuation of the old practice of underscoring the importance of the variable. --  k a i n a w &trade; 11:08, 9 July 2008 (UTC)


 * It can also just be a convention, such as in the Linux kernel, where "__do_something" often means "do_something" but without any mutual exclusion locking. --Sean 14:38, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * It's often system-variables and such. For instance, in PHP, there's stuff like $_GET which is the GET arguments in a HTTP request, in Python, there's stuff like the doc-string that documents a function and such, __doc__ --Oskar 19:04, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * In a standard conforming C++ implementation (and likely other language implementations), names containing double underscores are reserved to the implementation. This serves at least two purposes.  First, it allows the implementation to freely use these names in header (include) files and libraries for undocumented, implementation-dependent uses without interfering with names defined in a standard conforming program.  For example, the mechanism for file I/O may contain numerous implementation defined functions and global data structures named with two leading underscores.  Second, it is common for strongly typed languages to use name mangling to assign "decorated" names to user defined functions.  These decorated names encode the original function name, argument and return types, and other contextual information.  For example, the abs in the std library might have different (overloaded) versions taking either an integer, float, or double value as an argument.  The actual function name generated by the compiler might (theoretically) be called __std__abs__i, __std__abs__f, and __std__abs__d, so that the linker can distinguish between them.  This also prevents accidentally calling a function that expects one type of argument from code that passes a different data type.  -- Tcncv (talk) 01:32, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's a good answer for C as well. The ISO standard says:
 * All identifiers that begin with an underscore and either an uppercase letter or another underscore are always reserved for any use.
 * -- Coneslayer (talk) 12:27, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Reinstall missing qt-mt.dll
When I try to start up an application, an error message appears, telling me it has failed to start because qt-mt.dll was not found and that reinstalling it may fix the problem. I looked for it on my computer and obviously haven't found it; I googled the problem and I found out that reinstalling Apple's QuickTime might have been a solution. I did that {QuickTime version 7 for Windows Vista} and still that same error message keeps appearing. Any help would be highly appreciated, thanks for your time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.33.143.131 (talk) 16:20, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I suspect QuickTime thought it was doing an upgrade and that the file was already in place and unchanged. I would uninstall QuickTime, reboot and reinstall.  However, I have QuickTime installed.  Everything appears to work for me and I do not have the file either. - But, I'm XP and not Vista. --Wonderley (talk) 20:06, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm seeing a lot of references to Adobe Photo Album Starter Edition when trying to track this one down, but I don't have a specific answer yet. When you say "when I try to start up an application" do you mean any application, or one specific application?  Do you Photo Album on your system?  -- LarryMac  | Talk  20:17, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Wikis!
I am the webmaster for my company and I was given the job of finding a new host to do a complete rehaul of our website. The first thing I thought of was a wiki and I set out to do it. However the wiki I started it on does not like wikis that are made for "commercial gain" so it will soon be deleted. Try as I might I can't find a wiki-provider that lets you do this. Anyone know of one that will allow commercial websites? It can even be paid for, it just needs to be editable (word?) in wiki style. Thanks, schyler (talk) 20:40, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not an expert but I think you can install the MediaWiki software on your own paid for server and create your own wiki there. Exxolon (talk) 20:52, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

It looks as if you have to have your own server and not use an outside host to use the MediaWiki software. Thanks for the quick response though. schyler (talk) 20:58, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Is Joomla! Something like what you are looking for? --omnipotence407 (talk) 21:10, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Where did you get that from? I have a MediaWiki installation running fine on shared hosting and I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the license prohibiting it. As omnipotence407 suggested, if it's a standard public-facing website you may be better off with something like Joomla. I've heard good things about Textpattern also. — Matt Eason (Talk &#149; Contribs) 13:53, 8 July 2008 (UTC)


 * You should be able to put MediaWiki on a GoDaddy free hosting account- they have PHP and SQL. Not sure what the display would wind up looking like with GoDaddy's banner, though. JeremyMcCracken (talk) (contribs) 20:57, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

How do you check cpu temperature?
I tried using speedfan but it only shows the temperature of my hard drive and nothing else. I remember I used the program about a year ago on a different computer and it was fine, but now I just downloaded it and it doesn't work.--75.187.116.121 (talk) 20:40, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * PC Wizard has an accurate sensor module, amongst other things... Sandman30s (talk) 20:53, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Try Motherboard Monitor. CaptainVindaloo t c e 20:52, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

PC wizard doesn't show temperature for my computer and neither does motherboard monitor. Could it be perhaps my computer doesn't have any thermometers on it?--75.187.116.121 (talk) 21:24, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes; either you don't have a sensor, it's broken, or the software doesn't recognise it. Does your motherboard manual talk about a sensor? You could also try SiSoft Sandra which is updated often. Sandman30s (talk) 11:15, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Website hosting and making.
Hello. I came here because I'm currently looking for a free website hosting service, preferably one that is relatively good, reliable and trustworthy. Do you guys have any particular websites to recommend? Furthermore, do you have any other advice along the lines of you should start doing this, it would be convenient for you to do that, etc? I'm honestly not experienced in making a website nor in finding good services to host one, so any suggestions, ideas and information would be quite appreciated. Thank you in advance. --Laura K. O&#39;Connor (talk) 20:51, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Google has a pretty basic, no-nonsense Google Page Creator that I have personally experimented with. Google Sites is a structured wiki. If you are looking for a simple, free of cost option for a small website (Google Page Creator has a limit of total size 100 MB, uploaded files have to be 10 MB or smaller), you should look into these options before forking out a lot of money. Kushal (talk) 01:28, 8 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Your ISP might offer free hosting as a part of your packge wih them. Check out their home page.  Astronaut (talk) 17:50, 8 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Freeservers isn't bad, but it puts an insane amount of ads on your pages. JeremyMcCracken (talk) (contribs) 20:58, 8 July 2008 (UTC)


 * One thing you might like to do is to look at some of the pages that are already hosted by a service you're considering - that way you can see what the ads are like. Also, have a look at how often you need to log in to avoid getting your site deleted. AJHW (talk) 19:56, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

A file renamer
I need a Windows XP file renamer that is capable of:


 * 1) Monitor a folder
 * 2) Rename the file saved into the folder to:
 * the time of saving, or
 * the time of moving in, or
 * a serial number.

For example, if I put the file New Text Document.txt (or whatever.jpg or .gif) into the monitored folder, the renamer shall rename the file to either:


 * 200807071533.txt, or
 * 07071533.txt, or
 * 1533.txt, or
 * 0001.txt

I want to sort the files. -- Toytoy (talk) 20:52, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I wanted to reply on this earlier but I was afraid of stating the obvious. You need to have some sort of programming knowledge to do this - perhaps VB scripting. This would be trivial to do in a high-level language such as Visual Basic, Delphi or C. Also, your specs are a bit vague so if someone is kind enough to write it for you, be a bit more specific. Sandman30s (talk) 11:19, 8 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Sandman is right, you will need to create your own custom script to do this. If you are willing to forgo the "monitor folder" function, Métamorphose (renamer) might be able to do most of what you ask... &mdash; QuantumEleven 13:08, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Isn't there some sort of 'wizard' that could be downloaded that would convert filenames to date-included filenames on a user-prompt.? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.102.86.73 (talk) 14:18, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Send email from command line without having to specify an SMTP server?
Are there any programs out there that will allow me to send an email from the command line without specifying an SMTP server? maybe it has some SMTP thing built in? --69.74.33.222 (talk) 21:34, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It depends on your ISP. Some ISPs block port 25 on computers. Atomic Mailer will do the trick, although it's not command-based. Of course, you can also just set up an SMTP server on your computer. If you have XP Professional, you already have one as part of IIS that you can install from a Windows CD. You'd then telnet into the local host (127.0.0.1).--Hello. I&#39;m new here, but I&#39;m sure I can help out. (talk) 22:59, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * You only need an SMTP server on the receiving side. Any program can just open port 25 on the receiver side and send the mail.  You don't say, but if you're on something Unix-like, doing a simple:

mail someone@somewhere.com < message.txt
 * will do the right thing. There's no SMTP server required on the client side.   Check out Simple Mail Transfer Protocol for how it works.  --Sean 19:03, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the responses, but i would like to know if its possible to bypass the SMTP server and talk directly to the email reciever (the host.com in rcpt@host.com). whats the output of the smtp server to the reveiver? --69.74.33.222 (talk) 15:41, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes. Read the link I gave; it shows the whole conversation.  --Sean 19:14, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

When are we no longer at the mercy of our ISPs?
Dear Wikipedians:

Some of you may have undoubtedly heard about a Canadian Internet Service Provider, Bell, throttling its customer's P2P bandwidth. While feeling angry, I also felt quite helpless because there isn't even the option of voting with my wallet because the only other independent ISP in Canada is Rogers, which also practices throttling, even worse than Bell.

So my question is this: when are we no longer held at the mercy of our ISPs? I.e. when could we directly plug into the Internet without going through any third-party ISPs?

And on a related note, when can people who are harassed by their no-good governments such as Myanmar can get up and say "I've had enough, I quit!!!" and be able to settle into a new country and start a new life? I see both of these problems as being on the same philosophical ground.

Any input from you is much appreciated!

74.12.39.212 (talk) 23:10, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * My ISP (Comcast) did the same thing. So I now use Warez Bulletin Board. You download from Rapid Share through your browser. It's pretty fast (850 kps minimum), but you have to pay about $10 a month to use it. Now my ISP is considering throttling downloads across the board for certain users (i.e., me). I guess my downloading 4 DVDs a day was getting on their nerves!--Hello. I&#39;m new here, but I&#39;m sure I can help out. (talk) 23:17, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmmm...maybe I should consider getting a paid Rapidshare account too, almost everything is found on there nowadays. 74.12.39.105 (talk) 02:02, 8 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Not anytime soon, I'm afraid. The reason for this is simple: somebody is going to have to install and maintain the actual network cables, DNS servers, pay for the electric bill on all that hardware, do the tech support when required and whatnot. In theory, we could just do all that ourselves, but in practice the costs would be prohibitive.


 * As for your second question... I suppose that in theory, at least, they can pretty much do it on the spot, and become refugees, and a lot of people have done so. In practice, though, it's a lot harder than that. To start with, they'd have to have the means to leave the country, which may not be all that easy. Also, a lot of them might not even want to leave their country, since it's still their home and probably the only place they've ever known -- at least over there they have friends and family. Also, unfortunately a lot of the people living under conditions like this aren't particularly educated -- I mean, in the case of Myanmar, according to the usually-dependable CIA Factbook over 10% of the country aren't even literate -- so their understanding and knowledge of what becoming a refugee might involve or how to go about becoming one may not be very good, even if they have the means... And in case of Myanmar, what with almost 33% of the population estimated to live below the poverty line, it's a safe bet that most of them would have a real hard time leaving the country without help. Obviously, these really shitty governments run by moral cripples generally aren't breaking their backs making things any easier for anyone on that front. That's just a part of the equation, though, since even though leaving these countries is often very difficult, settling into a new country may not be much easier. Unless you're educated enough to speak another language, getting a job in a new country is going to be difficult, even if you're accepted as a refugee. Your job skills might be pretty much worthless in another society. Racism is often a factor. Chances are it's pretty difficult. So when could we expect it to become any easier? Geez, I don't know. Not anytime soon, I'm afraid. Still, we've made progress on that front over the years. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 23:52, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your detailed response Captain Disdain. That certainly sheds a lot of light on this subject and now I have a better grasp of what a refugee means. I also understand why "education" is top priority for so many charitable organizations working in Africa, because without it people are blind and helpless to change their predicaments. 74.12.39.105 (talk) 02:02, 8 July 2008 (UTC)


 * i recently heard a talk from somebody who'd been to myanmar and he said one of the residents said to him that if everyone in that country wasn't Buddhist, with their concepts of karma, etc., they'd have overthrown the junta years ago. Gzuckier (talk) 17:46, 9 July 2008 (UTC)


 * There is a common misconception that there is some sort of Internet to plug into. Anyone who has this view simply doesn't understand "Internet Protocol."  There is no magical wire to attach your computer to.  You just need to get your computer to talk to any other computer that is using the Internet Protocol.  Then, if that computer is talking to other computers, you too can talk to them.  That is basically how it works.  Your computer talks to your ISP's computer which is talking to many others that talk to many others that talk to many others.  This is easy to see if you have Linux by running traceroute on a connection.  It shows you the name of every computer that your requests bounces through to get to the destination.  As for being limited to one ISP - you aren't.  You have slower dial-up services for less money.  You have faster fiber access for a lot more money.  You probably have only one home-based broadband service - not one ISP.  As for throttling, the throttling I've seen (such as the work done by Comcast) is easy to undo.  I just added one line to my ipchain file to ignore Comcast's attempt to reset my torrent connections and it doesn't bother me at all. --  k a i n a w &trade; 00:05, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Cool, could you tell us what is that one line you added?--76.79.202.34 (talk) 01:53, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Same here. I'm all ears! 74.12.39.105 (talk) 02:04, 8 July 2008 (UTC)


 * You can read a whole article about how it works and how to implement it here. -- k a i n a w &trade; 02:08, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

A place you can get some information on this is internet backbone. A while ago, there was a centralized network. However, it was long-ago decommissioned, and today's internet is a massive web of private networks (see Tier 1 network) that connect to each other via special peering agreements. You'll always be at the mercy of whoever's network you gain access through; all you can do is find a better network. The problem is this: let's say hypothetically, you were going to hook into UUNet, the largest (I think) Tier 1 network. Obviously, you'll have to pay them, since it's their network. You'd also have to run some type of cable from the point of connection to where you are. That's not cheap. You'd probably have to have other people share your connection, and pay you for it, and suddenly, you're an ISP yourself. In fact, Bell and Rogers are probably a number of tiers under Tier 1- they buy internet off of someone else who buys internet off of someone else... JeremyMcCracken (talk) (contribs) 21:13, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Vista vs XP
Pros, cons etc? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.76.171.151 (talk) 23:14, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Please see Windows Vista and Windows XP. Your request for "pros, cons etc" is apparently a request for opinions and an attempt to start a discussion.  This is a reference desk, not a discussion forum.  If you need to discuss this topic with others, please try using one of the millions of discussion forums elsewhere on the Internet. --  k a i n a w &trade; 23:55, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * A comparison can be made based purely on facts, not opinions. Vista generally requires a far more capable computer to run a given application than Windows XP.  For example, a product I teach is called Zoom Text.  Here are the minimum system reqs under each OS:

Vista         XP ===========   ========== 1500 MHz     450 MHz 1000 MB RAM  256 MB RAM


 * As you can see, the Vista computer requires 3-4 times the resources to run the same app. Here's my source: . StuRat (talk) 03:41, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * (It's dissapointing isn't it.. - makes me wonder how fast my computer would be if I still had windows 3.1) 87.102.86.73 (talk) 08:08, 8 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The questioner did not ask for a comparison. The question was for "pros/cons".  Do you know why Vista requires more resources?  It could be doing good things that XP doesn't do.  It could just be the transparent window borders.  It could be a pro.  It could be a con.  Labelling it as one or the other is a matter of opinion, not a fact.  If the question said, "Please give comparisons between the resource requirements for Vista and XP," I would have given a completely different response. --  k a i n a w &trade; 13:35, 8 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't really see the distinction. A comparison will show diffs which are either pros or cons (with perhaps a few "it doesn't matter" cases, like if the default desktop background pic is different).  Therefore, I consider "pros and cons" to be synonymous with a "comparison", and neither require an opinion.  For example, requiring more speed and memory in your computer to perform the same task is a definite con.  If Vista does something wonderful enough to justify this sluggish response, I'd love to hear about it. StuRat (talk) 02:31, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It was a 'con' obviously. There are 'pros' as well....87.102.86.73 (talk) 20:01, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I've still got Windows 3.1, and the answer is "blindingly fast". I was able to overflow the year counter in SimTower simply by letting it run overnight at top speed.  I'm sure other old games are equally fast. --Carnildo (talk) 22:09, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * (cool, is it freeware/abandonware now - I'd like to downgrade..)87.102.86.73 (talk) 10:35, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd just say that an 'average' user will be able to do exactly the same things in XP as in Vista, (though not necessarily with the same ease) but look at Windows_Vista bearing in mind what has been said above.87.102.86.73 (talk) 09:16, 8 July 2008 (UTC)