Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2009 January 15

= January 15 =

In search of the elusive long-tailed mouse....
Does anyone know where I can get a mouse with a 20 foot cord ? I would also accept a cordless mouse with that range, but most only seem good for 2-3 feet. I'm not picky, I like mice either with or without balls. I use the mouse to play videos from my computer on my TV, and I want to be able to use it from across the room. I currently use a PS/2 franken-mouse that's been spliced together from two other dead mice to have a double-length cord. A USB mouse would also work. StuRat (talk) 00:52, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I doubt you will find a mouse with a 20 foot cable out of the box. What you need is a ps2 mouse extension cable.  I would also recommend you consider switching to a trackball, which doesn't need a hard flat surface.  It takes a bit to get used to, but once you do, you might never want to go back to the traditional mouse.  -- Tcncv (talk) 00:59, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


 * If you Google around you can find wireless mice that are advertised with much longer range than those meant to be used close to the receiver. There are different wireless technologies as well, with different ranges. BlueTooth mice apparently have a range of around 30 feet. This little one claims to have a range of 65 feet. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 01:10, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm using a Logitech wireless optical mouse and it seems to have about 20 feet of range (total estimate). Beyond that, a quick look at the USB page says USB has a range of 5 m... so you might be able to use a chain of USB extension cables or a combination of extension cables and wireless.  I'd suggest ditching ps2 if possible, as any new equipment you buy will probably be obsolete in a few years.  D a R kA g E 7 [Talk] 01:21, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for all the suggestions. The PS/2 extension cable sounds the cheapest, and also has the advantage of working for the keyboard, so I think I'll go with that. Finding a hard, flat surface is no prob. I've used a trackball for 3D CAD systems, but it seems like overkill for playing movies. If, in a few years, PS/2 becomes obsolete, I will upgrade at that time. (Although being "no longer supported" is probably a better way to describe it than "obsolete", which I reserve for technologies like VHS, which truly suck compared with DVDs. By contrast, I see no inherent advantage to a USB mouse over PS/2, and at least one disadvantage, the way USB connectors allow the cable to sag and become disconnected.) StuRat (talk) 03:36, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Just for reference, USB mice work on a much more recent and flexible standard. USB mice can have higher resolution, higher update frequencies, and are hot-swappable.  In addition, the plug itself on a USB cord is more durable, the mouse is allowed to draw more current (For whatever that's worth) and you're allowed to plug in more than one mouse.
 * You might not have use for any of these things, but a lot of us do. APL (talk) 19:32, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

HDD recovery tools
Hi,

One of the HDDs in our family computer is no longer showing up in Windows (neither in My Computer or in Admin Tools->Disk Management). Does anyone know of some kind of recovery software? Or is this more than likely unrecoverable hardware failure?

Thanks, --Fir0002 06:40, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

perhaps booting with a third-party CD? UBCD is a tool (well, collection of tools) that I've found useful. UBCD. If you can see the drive there, you might be able to recover info. Also a quick test would be to keystroke into your BIOS (F1, del, etc. depending upon make and model of computer) and see if the drive is listed there. If it is listed there, you may be able to recover. Also, if the computer has been moved recently, sometimes cables work their way loose. Ched (talk) 07:21, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I've checked the BIOS and unfortunately the drive doesn't appear! I've also checked cables so that's not the problem... I'll try put it into another computer and see if it detects it but I guess things aren't looking good --Fir0002 02:04, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You can try to boot from a Live CD (like Ubuntu's), but if you really need to recover data, I recommend GetdataBack, I already saved me several times... Good luck with that. SF007 (talk) 17:25, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

WP affects my MSWord spelling checker!
Try this experiment. Open a new document in MSWord, and type some nonsense text like kjlkjlkj. A red underline appears informing you that the “word” is misspelled. Now copy some text from a WP article and paste it into that blank document a couple of line down the page. When I do this, something really weird happens. If I type ABOVE the pasted text, the spelling checker works fine. If I type BELOW the pasted text, the spelling and grammar checkers are inactive. If I am editing something on WP, I ALWAYS copy the pertinent text over to MSWord and work on it there, where I can make use of spelling, grammar checkers and other nifty facilities. etc. I do this with all the stuff I work on, but only WP gives me this headache. Text pasted from IMDB and Yahoo QA and many others do NOT have this strange effect. Any ideas on what might be happening? I’m afraid that I ‘m not much of a techie, so keep it simple please. Hand puppets might be needed. 210.1.198.109 (talk) 07:36, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * What version of Word (and of Windows) are you using? I tried on Word 2003 Professional Edition SP1 and the spell-checker worked above and below the pasted text.  Have you tried doing Edit->Paste Special->Unformatted Text instead of normal paste?  When you post HTML into Word, it tries to convert the formatting to the native Word formatting, so it's possible there's some formatting attached to the HTML that's confusing your version of Word. --Maltelauridsbrigge (talk) 10:53, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I wonder if the reason for this behavior isn't that for some reason, Word thinks that the stuff you paste below is written in some other language, one for which it doesn't have the proper spell-checking files. You can see the language Word is using for any particular part of the text by placing the cursor on the middle of the text and looking at the status bar on the bottom of the window: it'll display the name of the language there. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 20:49, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

OP myles325 back. Bingo! Maltelauridsbrigge's advice works. When I use Paste Special (Unformatted) I can get the Spell and Grammar checker to work again, which is great. Thanks too to Captain Disdain. You guys have been a real help.

Myles325a (talk) 00:58, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I suspect that Word is applying a style to the pasted text that inhibits spellchecking (language = none). Text typed immediately after the pasted text assumes the same style.  If you press enter and then move the cursor up a line before pasting, your original style will be preserved at the end of your document.  Recent versions of Word also provide a "match destination formatting" option that also retains your original style and applies it to your pasted text.  -- Tcncv (talk) 01:07, 16 January 2009 (UTC)  (PS - I entered the editor before I saw the preceding resolution, so this is somewhat redundant.)

Software or data types that don't leave a signature in the file
Hi. Without giving too much away, I need to create a picture and a sound file for a contest. However I would like software or file-types that don't embed blatantly obvious headers into the file, as the participants will need to guess the file type from the clues I give them and rename it appropriately (actually it is going to be one file embedded in appended to another). Someone should not be able to guess the file-type by opening it in Notepad for example. I notice that gifs immediately start with gif in the header, and similarly mp3 software tend to embed their names and the word " mp3 ID3" at various places in the file. Is there any way I can get around this? I'd like to use gif or jpeg and mp3, as the combined embedded joined file works with Windows Picture Viewer and Windows Media Player ( embedded appended wav does not work on WMP). If necessary I'm willing and able to hex edit the file to remove telltale info, if you could guide me on what to do. Thanks. Zunaid 10:46, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * MP3 files shouldn't have identifiable headers saying "mp3", though it may depend on the encoder. You can chop the start/end off if there's an identifiable ID3 tag, because the decoder can synchronise at any point in the file (they do need to contain synchronisation strings of 0xFFF, however).  Most other formats seem to include text tags, e.g. JPEG/JFIF, PNG, GIF, Ogg, MPEG-4/.m4a, 3GPP, WAV, BMP file format.  If you want to store audio without headers, raw PCM is the way to go, with no information on number of channels, sampling rate, word size, etc.  There are some very obscure audio streaming formats for MPEG-2/MPEG-4 audio (AAC), like LOAS and LATM, but I'm not sure how many decoders actually support them.  You could also try one of the more obscure file compression/archiving formats from list of archive formats. --Maltelauridsbrigge (talk) 11:18, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The whole point of file formats is for them to be standardized and to be recognizable by software using them. If you simply use a Hex Editor to remove file format headers and other essential information, then the file wouldn't be in whatever format it was originally. You could say that these signatures are what defines file formats!


 * MP3 files do not usually contain "mp3" in them; they usually start with "ID3" because people like tagging their music! You might find "MP3GAIN" somewhere in the file if it has that information, though. You said that software like to "embed their names", and that's easily solved - just delete the tags from the MP3s.


 * What audience is your contest designed for? I doubt if you remove important file headers anyone would recognize them! -wj32 t/c 11:08, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


 * This is a good idea, though. People have documents in some file types and it'd be nice to be able to rename the files so even if the encryption is broken, people still have to wonder what file type it is.  Are you ready for IPv6? (talk) 11:16, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the replies so far. I checked out the MP3 again and you are right, I should have said ID3 instead of MP3, have corrected my post. I can remove any identifiable info from the MP3's by simply editing the properties. WMP does not want to play an MP3 appended to a jpeg, so I might be stuck using gif. It's a pity because the jpeg header actually says jfif which is sufficiently obscure for the target audience (which is just laymen). This is just the first clue and probably the only "technical"-type one. It is actually for a scavenger hunt like that famous "Race" on TV, without mentioning names ;). Oh, and when I say embed I actually mean append one file to another, not as in embedding an mp3 in a Word document. I'm going to try appending it to MS Word or pdf files as well, else I'll just stick to gif, and whoever figures out the correct file extension from notepad rather than the clue, good luck to them. I can't use non-standard codes or formats, it would defeat the purpose if I need to specify which program they need to use. Zunaid 13:21, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


 * You are basically doomed. Every file type that I can think of has a means for identification in the first four bytes of the file (known technically as the "magic number").  This is a tradition that has grown up around the UNIX 'file' program and the associated '/etc/magic' file which translates magic numbers into human readable filename types.  Nowadays it's such a common convention that I doubt there are any remotely 'mainstream' file formats left out there that can't be identified in this manner.  In fact, if any of your respondants is REMOTELY hip to the Linux/UNIX scene or knows the Cygwin toolset for Windows - then they'll blow away your silly puzzle by typing:

file filename.wibble


 * ...and getting:

filename.wibble: GIF image data, version 89a, 234 x 228


 * ...or whatever. So the 'puzzle' ends up being "Do you happen to know about the 'file' program?".  Even zipping up the file and renaming the zipfile won't work.  Solving the problem would take me about 20 seconds - and it would go something like this:

% file frame.wibble frame.wibble: gzip compressed data, from Unix, last modified: Thu Nov 30 18:00:00 2006 % mv frame.wibble frame.gz  % gunzip frame.gz   % ls   filename.wibble2 % file filename.wibble2 filename.wibble2: GIF image data, version 89a, 234 x 228 %


 * ...not much of a challenge. I suppose you could just trash the first four bytes of the file - but in all likelyhood that just makes the puzzle impossible because the header information in binary files could literally mean anything. Sorry - but I think this is a pretty terrible idea for a contest.


 * SteveBaker (talk) 16:03, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Hmm well I remember once on 4chan, people uploaded mp3 files as PNG and get a staticy picture out of it and also could share music files but I didn't try it myself. As for SteveBaker's comment, I wonder if removing the exif info from the file and then hex editing the JPG, GIF, etc. at the start of the file to remove that would work. Are you ready for IPv6? (talk) 16:19, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Also, I have two old games on my computer that use LBX files. I even have some add-ons that can modify those LBX files. I think these LBX are FoxPro database files. Well inside them, there's no way to tell what they are. Maybe you could use a really obscure file format. Are you ready for IPv6? (talk) 16:23, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Both Motorola s-record and uuencode don't explicitly show their format at the beginning (although anyone at all familiar with them will instantly recognise them by their rubric). So you could SREC encode or uuencode a text file (perhaps the next clue); if you were evil you could encode a binary format file like an image. Mimetic Polyalloy (talk) 17:28, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmmm - sadly, the 'file' program has other tricks. Let's see:

% uuencode helloworld.txt helloworld.txt > myfile % file myfile myfile: uuencoded or xxencoded text


 * OK - uuencode wasn't much of a challenge...what about S-Records?

% objcopy -O srec helloworld.txt myfile % file myfile myfile: Motorola S-Record; binary data in text format


 * Still not too challenging! SteveBaker (talk) 02:36, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Shew guys, you're making it way too complicated! These are not engineers and computer people. In fact I guarantee that almost none of have heard of *nix in any form. Appending an mp3 to a gif works just fine. Determining the file type is not the final answer, it merely allows them to listen to a clue I give them, they then have to find the location given my clue and carry on with the rest of the race. It might annoy the computer literate amongst us for being way too easy but trust me, it will work. Consider this resolved. Zunaid 07:44, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Spread Sheets To Standalone
Is there any way that a standard Microsoft Excel spreadsheet can be converted to a format that does not require excel to run? Java, or .exe for example. Thanks Kirk UK —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.82.79.175 (talk) 10:50, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * .--K;;m5m k;;m5m (talk) 11:03, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


 * It depends what you mean by "converted". If you want it to act like a spreadsheet, then you need a spreadsheet program to do the calculations. There are others apart form excel and it is liekly possible to import an excel spreadsheet into those programs. Alternatively if you just want to view the results, print them to a pdf file or to paper. -- SGBailey (talk) 11:10, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


 * If you're looking to view them on a computer that doesn't have excel, try google docs, or zoho.com. both free and capable of most of the excel, but they are online solutions.  for stand-alone, try openoffice.org Ched (talk) 14:35, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Technically, you can pick "File ... Save as"" and save it as an html file as well. but you'ld lose the bulk of your functionality as far as a spreadsheet goes. Ched (talk) 15:01, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


 * If your interest is allowing recipients who don't have Excel to view your Excel files, Microsoft provides a free Excel viewer application here. You might also have a save-as-html file menu option which may give you what you need.  -- Tcncv (talk) 00:57, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Save as XLS rather than DOCX or whatever the new filename extension is; then people can open it with OpenOffice, NeoOffice, etc. Not standalone, but no need for Excel either. Morenoodles (talk) 10:13, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, the latest version of OpenOffice opens ".xlsx" (the OOXML spreadsheet format from Excel 2007) just as easily as ".xls" (the default format up to Office 2003). Indeed, in my experience, it does so more transparently than Microsoft's own compatibility pack for Office 2000.
 * However, if you want just the data, then for a really cross-compatible file, save as CSV. - IMSoP (talk) 23:25, 24 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Or you can convert them into PDFs. 121.72.172.186 (talk) 09:49, 17 January 2009 (UTC)