Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2009 January 8

= January 8 =

Word Processors
Is there a word processor that can handle a document that is larger than 16 megabytes208.250.137.5 (talk) 00:11, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * This might sound dumb, but have you already tried Microsoft Word? I've opened huge files with it before, but I don't know if they were anywhere near 16 MB. Killiondude (talk) 00:21, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * According to, MS Word's max filesize is 32 megabytes, so should be OK. Cheers,  d avid p rior  t/c 00:23, 8 January 2009 (UTC).   Also  for confirmation of this,   d avid p rior  t/c 00:58, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, dunno if it counts 'cos its web-based but from - "Zoho Writer does not impose file size  	limits.
 * I don't claim to understand how it works...so thats why i ask -- why should there be any limit on the size? I mean if i made a 5 line c++ code using data file handling to save to a file and retrieve it ,technically it should keep working no matter what the file size.If i'd made something as simple as this->

fstream f("file.dat",ios::out); while(1) { char a=getch;   f<<a;}

and if i added 3 more lines and retrieved it technically shouldn't it run no matter how much you type or how ever big it is?. So why then do such big word processors have limits?Vineeth h (talk) 06:24, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Maybe there's some "backwards compatibility", ie the file format doesn't allow for more than that? Though I wouldn't believe many MS programs had this kind of problem. --194.197.235.38 (talk) 15:41, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


 * There are limits on sizes because "real" software has to understand something about the data, not just pass it through. Limits typically arise from situations like these:
 * The program needs to refer to some part of the file by, say, its offset, and it only allocates so many bits to store the offset. 32 MB is 225, so perhaps Word uses 16-bit values to store the position of something in units of 512 bytes (sometimes called a sector).  These limits can usually be increased, but at a cost in memory, run time, and/or code complexity that may not be considered worthwhile if the limit is "large enough" already.
 * The program must store the file in memory, or worse store the file and metadata (like undo information) about everything in it. If it would take gigabytes of memory to handle files bigger than 32 MB, a programmer might not bother increasing that limit.
 * The program must analyze or process the data in some way and the run time becomes prohibitive for larger files. The programmer might choose to put a hard limit rather than have the program become unusable in some circumstances.
 * Does that make sense? --Tardis (talk) 16:28, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Um, I'm routinely working with Word files in excess of 50 Mb, and am yet to experience a problem (apart from the thing being sluggish that is). Am I missing something in the thread above?—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 16:58, January 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * Do your docs contain graphics? Apparently they don't count to the 32Mb. Algebraist 22:16, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I've opened 70mb+ documents with both MSword and Open Office, but that was mostly due to images and not text. Why would images make a difference? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.88.87 (talk) 22:18, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Image data is very bulky compared to the letters that make up a document. Adding three large digital photos to a document can easily add tens of megabytes to the filesize.  Text however is very compact; one megabyte of characters would fill a large novel.  Note that the overall size in Word could be several times more due to a significant overhead in the file format used .  Astronaut (talk) 03:07, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * That's not exactly what I meant. Why would images not count towards the 32 megabyte limit of MS word documents as Algebraist said above? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.88.87 (talk) 20:50, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * To answer the question above, no, none of my Word files over 32 Mb contained any graphics whatsoever; they were simply very very very long documents (counting a few thousand pages in some instances).—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 16:18, January 9, 2009 (UTC)

߄ symbol
Does anybody know what the purpose of the ߄ symbol is? It is a box with a 0 in the top left-hand corner, a 7 in the top-right, a C in the bottom left, and a 4 in the bottom right. You could see it in Firefox but not in Internet Explorer or Microsoft Word.--Margyset (talk) 02:13, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm getting the feeling is from another language. Google that and you'll see what I mean.  Rgood erm  ote    03:07, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


 * It is the N'Ko digit for 4. The reason that it appears as a box with 07C4 in it is because you do not have a font with an appropriate glyph to render it. As a substitute, Firefox displays the Unicode value (U+07C4) in such cases. IE does not have this fallback feature. It will display correctly for those who have a compatible font. Bendono (talk) 03:58, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * To see more characters try List of Unicode characters. Astronaut (talk) 08:20, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

XBOX 360 vs. dial-up
I have a Wii and I know that there's a lot of features I cannot use with it because I live in a house with a dial-up internet connection. I don't know a lot about the xbox 360, but I was wondering if I would be okay if I got one. All I would want to do is just play some games by myself, so there wouldn't be a problem there, but is there some set up thing that requires a high speed internet connection to get the console working? Evaunit ♥666♥ 04:31, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No, you can use the console just fine even without a broadband connection. I mean, there are online features that you'll miss out on, such as downloadable extra content for games, but you can certainly buy games and enjoy them without ever plugging your Xbox 360 into the network. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 05:05, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm curious, what can't the Wii do over dial-up? (Perhaps via a Nintendo Wi-Fi USB Connector) Is the issue simply that downloads take a very long time? Or does the system simply refuse to work with such a slow connection? APL (talk) 07:23, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Too slow. The Nintendo Network is slow even with a broadband connection. You can certainly play it online. But..it'll take forever.  Rgood erm  ote    14:14, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

sorting by birthdays
i want to sort a list of dates of birth ( in DD-MM-year format) according to birth days from jan. 01.onwards. Could anyony suggest an idea how to do that in exel? (windows XP). Thank you124.43.42.183 (talk) 12:02, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * A simple solution is to have the day month and year in seperate columns and you can sort them from either day month or year. BigDunc  Talk 12:26, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


 * If the dates are already entered in one column, Excel probably automatically set them to date/time fields. You can use the formula "=Day(x)" and "=Month(x)" to pull the day and month out of the date column 'x' into two new columns. Then sort on those columns as suggested above. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.137.108.115 (talk) 21:32, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Making IFS programs
I'd like to make a screensaver that uses IFS to create fractals. How would i go about doing this? PS: I am able to understand Visual Basic .NET, C++, and C#. I looked at the samples of the RSS screensaver but can't figure out how to mod this sample to make it generate fractals using IFS. Can anyone help? PPS: iterated function system is what i'm referring to by IFS. Buffered Input Output 14:31, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

File statistics
I have a fairly well-branched system of directories (~2,000 directories at various depth in all), which mostly contain documents in different formats. Is there a simple way to find out how many different extensions are used across all files (i.e., in all subdirectories combined), and to count the number of instances in each group (i.e., the output would be something like 2,000 .rtf files, 8,000 .doc files, 300 .mht files, etc.)?—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 16:36, January 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * This python program will do that:


 * -- 87.114.7.226 (talk) 17:35, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but I should have mentioned that I needed a ready solution, not an algorithm. The computer on which the said directory tree resides is a work computer, it does not have anything Python/Perl/etc.-related installed, and it is closed to new installations (of this scale, at least).  Any other ideas would be welcome.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 17:54, January 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * If you can't install anything, what form would a ready solution take? --Sean 21:14, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps Windows Explorer, a tally sheet, and several days? That seems simple enough. Realistically, you are unwilling/unable to run a highly-respected executable (python) and a simple (easily reviewed) script, but you would be willing to execute some random vb program that you have no way of verifying? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.137.108.115 (talk) 21:21, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I did not say that I can't install anything, I said I could not install anything on the scale of a full-blown product such as Python or Perl. A program that runs off a USB key or even one that installs/uninstall cleanly and with minimal footprint are something I am more than willing to consider.  Tally sheet, no, that won't work&mdash;too many damn files!  VB, I haven't considered that.  Should have, because I now realize that I can easily write something like that myself; I just wasn't thinking into that direction when I posted the request.  Anyhoo, thanks for your time, folks.  If anyone can still recommend something along the lines I described above, feel free; if not, I'll just write a VB script after brushing up on my rusty VB programming skills :)—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 22:08, January 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * You could install (i.e. simply copy the .exe) any windows command line version of wc, and enter from the command line:

dir /b /s X:\whatever.directory.you.want.to.start.in\*.rtf | X:\path.to.wc\wc.exe
 * You'll have to figure out the extensions you're interested in collecting statistics for yourself, though. --NorwegianBluetalk 22:24, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks (that's the best advice I've got so far)! I'll sure give it a try.  The stats themselves are more important than the list of extensions (I already have a pretty good idea of what kind of extensions there are, so having a tool would have just nicened that up), and looking at the description this tool seems to be just the ticket.  Much appreciated!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 22:32, January 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * Alternatively, you could get a list of all files and redirect the output like this:

dir /b /s X:\whatever.directory.you.want.to.start.in\ > tempfile.txt
 * The output file could then be loaded into a speadsheet program like Excel, the "Text Import Wizard" will leap into life and let you delimt columns by the "." which separates the type from the filename. Just beware that a filename can also include a ".", but the type can't.  Once you have dealt with that in your list, I'm sure you can think of an easy way to count the different types if they were all in one column.  Astronaut (talk) 02:51, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * If you import Astronaut's tempfile.txt into excel, and manage to get the extensions all aligned in a separate column, you could use the pivot table feature of excel to get exactly the statistics you are looking for. --NorwegianBluetalk 10:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I was playing with that script and it seemed to be more trouble than it's worth since so many directories on my (work) computer have periods in them. I recommend WinDirStat. After it analyzes the directory or drive in question there's an output on the top right where it will give you the details on the files (extension, description, bytes, % Bytes, and number of files). It unfortunately does not give the % of files, but that can be done manually and, for me, less hassle than cleaning up that Excel file.--droptone (talk) 13:23, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Dumping the dir's output into Excel file and then parsing it actually works out, because none of my file names contain any periods beyond those used to separate the file name from its extension. It wouldn't be very convenient if I needed to do this periodically, but since it is a one-time only task, the approach worked like a charm (I have not tried the wc advise given above, because this worked out fine).  Thanks!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 16:24, January 9, 2009 (UTC)

Backwards music player software
Does anybody know of any freeware which will allow me to play MP3s backwards (and save them in that state)? I am using Vista Home Premium SP1. Thanks! Den dodge  Talk Contribs 17:07, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Audacity will let you load an mp3 file, reverse it, and then save it off. -- 87.114.7.226 (talk) 17:37, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * crap...i wanted to say that... Buffered Input Output 17:39, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Does it? I've had it for ages and didn't know!  Thanks! Den dodge  Talk Contribs 18:16, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


 * GoldWave is recommended as always 72.236.192.238 (talk) 23:03, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Evil fake Windows security center in league with fake antivirus thing
There's a fake version of Windows Security Center on my computer. It keeps saying to install "Spyware Guard 2008" which is clearly fake. Is there a program I can use as a crowbar to smash this piece of malware way to stop this stupid thing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.170.47.80 (talk) 19:45, 8 January 2009 (UTC) 75.170.47.80 (talk) 19:57, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Came across something simmilar on a friends machine and used this to remove it with no problems. BigDunc  Talk 20:03, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I get good results from SpyBot and Ad-Aware - they might be able to clean this thing out -both have free personal versions. Exxolon (talk) 20:05, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Also I didn't have to use the full version so no cost. BigDunc  Talk 20:21, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I used Ad-Aware, but the virus still lives. If there was something to prevent certain executable files from running it might help. Also, the virus isn't letting me connect to the Ad-Aware site or any other antivirus site--I got Ad-Aware by downloading it on another computer. 75.170.47.80 (talk) 22:10, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Have you tried the one I linked too? BigDunc  Talk 22:15, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Are you running Ad-Aware in Safe-Mode? Is it up to date? Have you tried a regular virus-scanner like AVG? --98.217.8.46 (talk) 22:49, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * this will explain how to use the program BigDunc suggested. I concur that it is a reputable and useful program. Ched (talk) 02:42, 9 January 2009 (UTC)(sp) Ched (talk) 02:44, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Second the use of Malwarebytes', which I usually combine with a liberal dousing of SuperAntiSpyware (normally in the reverse order, though...) Washii (talk) 05:26, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I fixed a PC with that very issue today...it even had a fake bluescreen for some reason. Malwarebytes took care of it quickly. You may have an issue installing it, some of the newer fake anti-virus malware have blocked Malwarebytes and Spybot (and maybe others) from installing. If you run into this problem, disable TDSSserv.sys from Device Manager>Non-plug and Play Drivers (View > Show Hidden Devices)....reboot and you should be good to go. RxS (talk) 05:33, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Playing audio from a visual waveform
Hello everybody! Sorry to ask this here, but I can't think of what to google to find the answer otherwise. Is there a program that will play back audio given an image of an audio waveform? (To be clear, I don't even know if this is possible...) I am on Mac OS X and Ubuntu, if there are options for one of those platforms. --ParkerHiggins ( talk contribs ) 20:26, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


 * It is indeed possible. The easiest way of doing this is to find an equation describing the wave (e.g. $$y = A \sin {\omega t}$$ in the most simple case), and then simply create a plain WAVE (RIFF) file containing samples (virtually a "graph") of this wave. This could be accomplished by any reasonably experienced programmer in just a few minutes or perhaps an hour. If you want to find an existing application able to do this, you should try Matlab or Mathematica (although they are not cheap). As a matter of fact, I am planning to develop a similar software that will be able to do exactly what you are looking for. I will not be able to finish this app in the near future, but if you know exactly what equation you would like to hear, I could make a WAVE file for you. Also, if anyone reading this actually has a license of Matlab, Mathematica or any similar product, he or she could easily create a WAVE for you (given an equation). --Andreas Rejbrand (talk) 21:17, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Your question was not quite clear to me. If you have high-resolution images of the waveform, Andreas has answered the question. If your images are low-resolution, however, it's a different story. To see the difference, see the picture at the right. If you are talking about the red curve, you are referring to the envelope of the audio. You cannot reconstruct an audio signal from the envelope. You can, however, modulate another audio signal such that its envelope matches a different envelope. In fact, I once wrote a program that did exactly that, (based on recordings, not images). You can create quite interesting musical effects that way. Unfortunately, I never really finished the project, and it's not in a state where I would like to share it. --NorwegianBluetalk 21:38, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Asinωt? I'm totally new to signal processing.. does that really mean something like A(t)*sin(ω(t))? Nothing's really a function of t in the version you gave. So the A is the amplitude for a given t, and ω is the... angle/phase? frequency? 72.236.192.238 (talk) 22:53, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * But hold on, why bother with frequency at all? Why not just define the equation as A(t)? 72.236.192.238 (talk) 23:01, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I just gave an example of a very simple harmonic wave (at a fixed point in space), a pure tone at angular frequency &omega;. There is nothing more profound about it. --Andreas Rejbrand (talk) 01:24, 9 January 2009 (UTC)