Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2009 June 25

= June 25 =

RCA-to-Headphone converter
Is there a device available that permits connecting a standard set of headphones to a stereo RCA Audio source? I have a device that permits the reverse (connecting headphone out to an RCA in), so such a device should be feasible, but I don't know what it would be called, or how to go about finding one. Horselover Frost (talk) 02:40, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The RCA-to-3.5mm connector is entirely passive (unless you have a strange device, maybe with a built-in amplifier). So, you can use it "in reverse" with no trouble.  The only difficulty is that it will output a male 3.5mm plug - so you will need a 3.5mm female-to-female connector (this one costs 59 cents).  This will allow you to connect the headphones to a female 3.5mm jack, and the other end to the 3.5mm-to-RCA cable.  Nimur (talk) 04:46, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * What he means by "passive" is that it doesnt do anything electronically, just the shape of the connectors is changed. You can buy this at some dollar stores or some electronics stores like Best Buy or Future Shop. Also, they're easy to find online, by searching on Google or eBay. You can also, as a last resort, cut the cable on cheap head phones and on the adapter you have and manually wire them together. Roberto75780 (talk) 05:05, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

You probably will need a headphone amp to connect unless the headphones are very small - since the RCA outputs will not have been designed to drive relatively a low impedance device - connecting up headphones with a passive device will cause too much current to be drawn with the possibility of damaging the outputs in the long term, or just bad sound quality. Here's an example of an inexpensive headphone amp http://www.amazon.co.uk/B-TECH-BT928-HEADPHONE-PRE-AMP/dp/B0016N5Q1S/ref=sr_1_13/280-8728623-5776213?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1245941181&sr=1-13 - there are alternative workarounds.

IE* can't open wikipedia
I installed IE8. It will not open wikipedia articles. It says that windows does not recognize this unknown MIME file type and I can't find anything online tht will open it. Many thanks for whatever help you can offer.

I asked wikipedia help and they referred me to you. I can't be the only one....can I? 68.109.83.152 (talk) 03:54, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If you installed IE8 with a Google toolbar, try disabling that. Some people have found that works. The better solution might be to run IE8 with IE7 compatibility. On the Tools menu, select Compatibility View Settings. In that dialog, tick the check box for "Display all websites in Compatibility View". - KoolerStill (talk) 07:40, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I edit Wikipedia quite OK with IE8 (though there are some minor irritations). Which MIME file type is it complaining about?  Astronaut (talk) 12:59, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi, i have the same problem, in chrome works fine. But IE does't this is an example page http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistor. If u solve it, please let me know thanks

Macs and formatting
I have a flash drive that I need to reformat - I know exactly how to do this in Windows, but I only have access to Macs. What should I do? --128.12.77.65 (talk) 04:54, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I would probably simply type format flash drive mac into google. I tried to make that into a link to lmgtfy.com for you but Wikipedia won't let me :-( 62.78.198.48 (talk) 07:44, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Applications > Utilities > Disk Utility. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 20:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Colour
The article Flag of Saudi Arabia says the green colour is 330C. What system of naming or describing colours is 330C in. What is the equivalent or closest colour in RGB? Thanks Roberto75780 (talk) 04:58, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It could be the Pantone color system. The RGB is #005652 (from Photoshop) -Sealedinskin (talk) 06:50, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

HP PDA is locked
I acquired a HP PDA (ipac 112) on ebay. Charged battery as per instructions but cannot access the "Start" screen. The only screen I get is all numbers with a window for a password and at the bottom of the screen it says "Locked". How do I unlock it and reset the password. 220.238.109.218 (talk) 05:02, 25 June 2009 (UTC) Joe Blow


 * Most PDA's have a small button inside a hole on the device that needs to be pressed with a paperclip or pin. If you press it once, it does a soft reset, which probably won't solve your problem. If you press and hold it, it will ask you a confirmation and then do a hard reset which deletes everything on the device and returns it to its factory settings, like formatting a computer with the recovery CDs. Roberto75780 (talk) 05:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC) If your device doesnt have that button, contact Toshiba or search for support on their website. Roberto75780 (talk) 05:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I can't verify this myself, but Google suggests the following steps for performing a hard reset (wiping all data on the device and reverting it to the factory settings): Press Win + OK + Record all at the same time. Whilst pressing those buttons also press the reset button and hold for 3-4 seconds. Release reset and then release the buttons, the screen should say "Clean Reboot". ZX81  talk  00:16, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Editing Animated images
How can i edit an animated image (remove an object and place another in its place) without disturbing the animation?Shraktu (talk) 08:14, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * What sort of file is it? An animated gif (.gif), Flash (.swf) or some sort of movie sequence (.avi and others)? - Jarry1250 [ humourous – discuss ] 08:16, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Its a .gif file..Shraktu (talk) 08:45, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Questions about editing animated images are one of the common ones on this reference desk. From the archives, see - Slow down animations, GIF Animation, Animated GIFs, Animated gifs, Looking for a GIF animator. Jay (talk) 11:13, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * You will end up having to edit every frame of it in something like Photoshop or Gimp (probably by extracting all the frames into separate files or layers and then recombining them into an animation again at the end). It is non-trivial and not fun. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 20:21, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Mobile internet
I'm getting an unlocked LG Web Slider phone soon and I was wondering will I be able to use Facebook and MSN on the phone with my regular Virgin pre-paid sim card or do I need another sim card like Boost to make the internet work? --124.254.77.148 (talk) 08:36, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Have you checked out the various plans - particularly data plans - at http://www.virginmobile.com.au/ ? Such information suggests that Virgin Mobile in Australia does support internet access, though whether it will be fast enough for Facebook or MSN using a pre-pay SIM is something you should ask.  Astronaut (talk) 12:42, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The pre-paids work on the same network and at the same speeds as the billed services. They are available in high denominations. In fact the same phone networks are now being used as wireless internet connections for computers (through a tiny USB stick modem), at nominally broadband speeds.- KoolerStill (talk) 21:07, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Compare two files in Ubuntu
What graphical program can I use to compare two files in Ubuntu?--Mr.K. (talk) 09:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * fldiff 87.115.17.119 (talk) 09:47, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * or xxdiff 87.115.17.119 (talk) 09:53, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * OK, I checked fldiff and I didn't like it. Apparently, the program don't let you edit the files being compared.--Mr.K. (talk) 10:00, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * xxdiff has apparently the same problem. If I spot a difference, I'll need to change something, is it really impossible?--Mr.K. (talk) 10:05, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * emacs'  mode lets you edit either file, but it presents the diff in conventional textual format. 87.115.17.119 (talk) 10:19, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh, yes. Thanks. --Mr.K. (talk) 10:31, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Or another emacs way, occasionally quite useful, is M-x compare-windows, which gets easier to use if you bind it to some key. 88.114.222.252 (talk) 10:52, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I like this program called "meld". Ubuntu has it.  --Sean 19:03, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * If you want to merge changes, emacs's "emerge" command is great. It shows the two versions side by side with the diffs highlighted, and you pick (diff by diff) which version you want (A or B) in a third window.  I think there is something like it as a standalone desktop gui app but I've never bothered to look for it. 208.70.31.206 (talk) 02:26, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Relationship between offset value format and 2's compliment format in DAC
Can any one help to find out the relation ship between Offset value format and 2's compliment format in DAC(Digital to Analog Converter)..?


 * Can you tell us which DAC? The term "offset value format" isn't one with which either I or Google are terribly familiar.  If I were to guess, I'd think that "offset value" means something like "each sample is represented by the difference between its value and that of the predecessor", as opposed to an absolute value. You'd think both an offset scheme and an absolute scheme would be signed, however, so both would (likely) be represented in two's complement. I think you'll have to let me read the appropriate datasheet to properly answer this. 87.115.17.119 (talk) 10:55, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Sounds like they are different formats for encoding signed values using binary symbols. Two's complement is the typical format used in computers for representing signed integers. “Offset value″ sounds like a convention in which an offset is added to a representable value (whether positive or negative) so that the resulting number is always non-negative, and therefore can be represented just as an unsigned integer. Say you want to represent values in the range -128, …,+127 as 8-bit unsigned integers, you can add an offset of 128 to the value that you want to represent, so that a value of -128 will be encoded as -128 + 128 = 0, and a value of 0 will be encoded as 0 + 128 = 128. This way the representable numbers are all encoded as non-negative (i.e. unsigned) integers.

Tablet vs. normal notebook
Why are normal notebooks much more common than tablets? Are tablets such a lame invention? --80.58.205.37 (talk) 12:51, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I considered buying a tablet a few years ago. I ditched the idea when my arm started to ache after just a few minutes of using it.  Astronaut (talk) 13:39, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * a phenomenon called "Gorilla arm", apparently. 87.115.33.63 (talk) 13:57, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I have mild tendinitis and I almost always get finger pain within a few minutes when using a new input device, even a touchpad that's not much different from touchpads I've used before. But after a few days my body somehow adjusts and I can use the same device for long periods without trouble. I don't have much experience with tablets, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're like that too. Don't give up just because the first time hurts. I don't think this is gorilla arm—if the screen is horizontal then it should be similar to writing on paper. -- BenRG (talk) 21:48, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Pure tablets have pretty much gone away in favor of those combination table/notebooks with the fold-back keyboard.
 * I've got a viewsonic V1100. (I like it for it's oddly left-handed layout.) It's great for reading and browsing the web.  Writing on it is a bit of a chore, though thanks to slightly iffy handwriting recognition. (If you've got really neat print handwriting you'll probably do well with it. ) APL (talk) 16:29, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Most people can type a lot faster than they can write. If you are comfortable with a keyboard it is a LOT faster and easier to use that than any touch-screen or stylus approach. I would guess that at least 50% of what people do on a computer involves putting in text of some form, and if a tablet increased the time of such things by a great factor (which I suspect they do), then it would be seriously inconvenient to use one for anything other than the occasional reading of the newspaper. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 20:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Another reason might be, that tablets are much more expensive than normal notebooks. (here tablets starts at 1500 or 2000, but low end notebook can be bought for below 300). -Yyy (talk) 06:37, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Follow up: and is there any laptop which screens can be rotated to the back until you have it flat? I imagine it would be quite comfortable to read when you are on the road (in a subway, train, ...). That wouldn't be a huge cost for the manufacturers, would it?--Mr.K. (talk) 10:01, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you mean devices that are convertible from the "traditional" notebook format to a tablet shape? If so, yes, they are generally referred to as Convertibles. They tend to be even more pricy than tablets. One example is here -- Kateshort forbob  12:17, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * No, I don't mean a convertible. Just a normal laptop, which screen can be rotated (almost) 360 degrees.


 * The Tablet PC article has a list. The one I tried and found heavy in my arm, was a Toshiba (Tecra M7, maybe).  The screen could be rotated through 180&deg; and layed flat over the keyboard.  Input was via a stylus and it used Windows Tablet edition.  IIRC, I was pretty impressed that it easily recognised my scruffy handwriting without much trouble, but not enough to put up with the aching arm.  Astronaut (talk) 17:14, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Cut help
Consider the following csv data: 1,"Doe, John",38 2,"Unknown",0 3,"Wing, Jr, Jeff",41 Assume that I want to extract the 3rd field using cut. The obvious command is:  which returns: John" 0 Jr It is obvious that cut doesn't understand the concept of quotes. Is there a way to explain to cut that commas inside of quotes are not delimiters? --  k a i n a w &trade; 14:00, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * As far as I can tell no - not with cut the unix command. I would probably try to write a parser that replaces commas inside quotes with a unique character, use cut, and then reverse replace.
 * There seem to be some programs here http://www.blossomassociates.net/tables/ ?haven't checked.
 * Explains in totally non partisan terms how microsoft is at fault: "In fact, the Microsoft version of CSV is a textbook example of how not to design a textual file format..." and unix is not.. :) In other words because CSV doesn't do it the unix way (with control codes) CUT just doesn't work.83.100.250.79 (talk) 15:54, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * By the way the algorhythm is so trivial it's barely worth mentioning - but - if you scan the file from beginning to end, counting the " the separator(s) is(are) legitimate only if an even number of " have been counted.. Thus ignore all separators when the count of " is odd..83.100.250.79 (talk) 16:02, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Alternatives to Paypal
Is there any alternative to Paypal? Some alternative that is simple to use and integrates well with Paypal users. Under "integrates" I mean that a Paypal user could send money with the same ease to a Paypal and to a non-Paypal user.--Mr.K. (talk) 15:01, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I looked up "payment systems" on Wikipedia and got this list . One benefit of PayPal is that it's a well known brand name. Not sure if I would trust my financial info with a company with a limited reputation. --70.167.58.6 (talk) 17:16, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

There are a lot of others out there, although their use is becoming limited in the U.S. due to restrictions on gambling. Net Teller is the foremost example (ceased operating in the U.S. in 2007). Shadowjams (talk) 17:33, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Nice, but do these system integrate with Paypal? If you have Paypal and I not, could you send me money? The problem is as if you had Windows and I Linux and you couldn't send me an email.--Mr.K. (talk) 17:43, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * When you say "integrates with PayPal" do you mean literally transfer money directly from a PayPal account to an account with another company? No I'm afraid I don't think you'll find any that support that (it's simply not in PayPal's interest as well as for security reasons) and you'd need to go through either a bank account or a card. I'll happily be proved wrong though! ZX81  talk  00:09, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Safari Books
I have recently used the site, [], which is basically an online library to which you can subscribe. I noticed some peculiar things about this site, such as the fact that the contents of the books are represented as JavaScript which is then rendered by the browser. Presumably, this is to prevent people from downloading the page and encourage them to buy "tokens" for the privilege of downloading chapters in these books. Is it legal to download the pages themselves (after you have subscribed to the service) instead of paying for the .pdf version? Isn't it very easy just to download the page itself and view it at a later time in a web browser? What advantages could this approach possibly provide? 24.68.238.232 (talk) 15:56, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Check the current ToS, but earlier you might not keep any copy of the book after your subscription ended.--Mr.K. (talk) 16:36, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * That's a legal/contractual thing, not a technical one. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 20:04, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Saving the webpage itself is not easily done; but printing a copy of it to a PDF file is trivial (I just tried it), as is copying and pasting the text. So I would say that it's a lot of technical effort expended for almost no benefit. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 20:04, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

regional font problem in windows
I use windows 7, and have installed support for a regional language, bangla. But the font that windows uses for bangla display is pathetically small, and I dont like it. I have several other better fonts, but I cant make windows use the other fonts for bangla. While trying to delete the default font, i.e Vrinda, Windows claims it to be protected and denies. Please help. 59.93.244.196 (talk) 17:28, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Why not just change the fonts and/or sizes through Control Panel -> Personalization -> Windows Color and Appearance -> Advanced ? That's the "proper" way to change it and won't cause Windows file protection errors. ZX81  talk  00:01, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, your 'proper' way is of no help, because I dont want to change the font that windows uses for displaying characters. I just want to change the font that windows uses to display some special regional unicode characters. Any ways, thanks. 218.248.80.114 (talk) 02:29, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Website builders
A friend of mine was telling me about this website builder and I was wondering if there are any free alternatives thanks. BigDunc Talk


 * Sure, lots of web hosts offer similar "web site construction tools." They are generally marked by their lack of flexibility, poor coding, and generic appearance. Take a look at that site's gallery page for a wonderful illustration of what I mean. None of the sites on there look very good, none of them look like the site that is selling you the software. They are all generic, fairly undeveloped-looking websites.
 * Depending on what kind of site you want, there are probably better options. If you are trying to make a blog or a blog-like site, something like WordPress facilitates all of the complicated database work and streamlines a lot of the graphical design, and can still produce something fairly customized without too much technical knowledge (and doesn't cost anything).
 * In the end, you do sort of get what you pay for—there is a lot of free web stuff out there BUT most of them require some sort of technical skills, which are not free—they require a time investment to develop on someone's behalf. --98.217.14.211 (talk)
 * I have the knowledge to do a web site from scratch have a BSc in Computer Science but what I was looking for was to teach my 9 year old about bulding simple sites and as the software I linked to uses a GUI to help with the build I thought it would be ideal. I have shown him simple code using Dreamweaver but it gets a little complicated for him with columns and rows and other code. BigDunc  Talk 21:24, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * sites.google.com? Tempshill (talk) 23:12, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

All the free hosting sites e.g [Google Sites], etc. do not let you perform the coding yourself. Does anybody know of such a site that will allow that ? 218.248.80.114 (talk) 02:48, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually with Google Sites you can write HTML. Start editing a page, then click the "HTML" button at the top of the page.  It switches to an HTML view and you can just start typing whatever HTML code you want.  I've never tried inserting any JavaScript, so I don't know about that.  (And your point may be different than mine; your content still appears within a frame and so if you're looking for the very basics in order for beginning coders to learn the very basics, my observation may be irrelevant to you.)  Tempshill (talk) 05:25, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Just tell your nine year old about the wonderful world of Wikipedia. That's how I learned everything I know about websites. Just be sure to tell him/her not to vandalize monitor what (s)he does here so that you're not getting caught up in autoblocks and sockpuppet investigations. Another idea is Myspace, but they wouldn't be too happy if they found out a nine year old had an account there because their minimum age requirement is 13 years. Perhaps Facebook would allow a nine year old to have a profile, but I doubt it, although I don't know a whole lot about Facebook. As previously recommended, you can try Google Pages. There's always BlogSpot too, which is also owned by Google. PCHS-NJROTC (Messages) 07:07, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

OnLive
There was a lot of skepticism when OnLive was first announced but now that the media circus is over I'm having a hard time finding any evidence for or against the product actually working as the promoters suggested (that is streaming, high def video games of next gen quality). Is there any major source that has independently verified OnLive's claims? And in theory is a system like this really possible with today's technology? TheFutureAwaits (talk) 21:26, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid you are going to have to wait until they roll out the product or conduct some more public demos. The version they ran at GDC and their inhouse demos all use higher speed, lower latency Net connections to their data centers than any consumer will have.  Your question about whether it's really possible "in theory" needs to be a more precise question.  I think the question that a lot of people familiar with current gaming tech would like to see answered is, "What games will I be able to play over OnLive and get an excellent game experience, given normal constraints of consumer bandwidth and latency to the data centers that OnLive is going to build; and how much am I going to have to pay?"  None of this is answerable yet.  Tempshill (talk) 23:10, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm a professional game programmer - I have yet to meet anyone in the business who takes this idea seriously. The latency is the killer for any kind of action game - the speed of light is a harsh mistress.  No doubt there are some genres for which it might be interesting - but it's not going to take over the world. SteveBaker (talk) 03:53, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Well these guys claimed they can run Crysis and even more graphically demanding games in real-time which I agree sounds unlikely. Yet major studios (EA, UBisoft, Atari) have signed on as partners, so it sounds like they are taking it seriously.
 * Also, why would the developer's pull such an elaborate ruse? Steve Perlman (largely the force behind OnLive's development) is the CEO and is already very wealthy after Quicktime and WebTV. In fact it seems like most of the Onlive has little financial motivation to do this unless it would actually take off.
 * It seems like all the skeptics just say "this is impossible with today's technology", but then OnLive is claiming to be revolutionary and has offered demos at conventions so where's the evidence it won't work? TheFutureAwaits (talk) 07:46, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Bit_rate might introduce some clarifty 5Mbits/sec is DVD quality - I would be expecting similar or higher quality for a game - that should give an indication of the bandwidth required.
 * The technology could/can work - though as mentioned above never as well as having a machine 1ft away - I'd be more concerned about the business plan - at some point someone has to pay for the machinery (ie high end graphics cards/CPUs) needed to operate the system.
 * Surely if a developer can get online play to work, then there's no problem with this technology - sure most people with have to make do with SD or sub-SD resolution images on a 1.5Mbit connection. If you've got really fast internet with a guaranteed connection speed it would work - but who has (excluding koreans). Apart from getting screwed everytime the connection speed drops out what's the problem? I don't think there's any doubt that it works in a singular best case - but what about when everyone comes home at 6pm and wants to play a game - maybe the idea is to use spare computing power in local severs? - otherwise the server hardware would work out too expensive. Anyway think of the payment options - it can be made to work...
 * Don't forget to read about The Phantom (game system) - eventually we got a keyboard. The onlive controller looks cool maybe they can spin that out when the business fails?83.100.250.79 (talk) 15:41, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Or read this if you wish which suggests the things real reason for existing is to make founder Steve Perlman money via acquisition. quote: "This Jesus Box is for buying and selling". (see also Money begets.. and Wealth condensation ) Who knows?83.100.250.79 (talk) 16:40, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * (By the way if anyone knows when Steve Pearlmen was born, and his citizenship, please update his biographical article)83.100.250.79 (talk) 20:31, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Windows trivia
Does anyone know 'how to get' the windows wizard - I've found a gif called Merlin on the hard drive. But all I ever see is the dog.. (I fucking love that wizard and want it) please help. Thanks.83.100.250.79 (talk) 21:57, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you mean the Microsoft Agent characters? He's located in C:\Windows\MSAgent\Chars - What do you mean by "get" though? If you want to use him in your own programs then Microsoft actually make a control that can be used in other programs (Microsoft Agent Control - C:\windows\MSAgent\AgentCtl.dll) and you can get additional characters from Google. ZX81  talk  00:05, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes both. Thanks.
 * If you are talking about the animated character in the Windows XP Search Companion (Start, Search, For Files and Folders), just right click on the current character, then click "Choose a different animated character." --Bavi H (talk) 02:00, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes both.
 * Thanks.

Social networking sites that ask permission to snoop in your email account
This question is partly inspired by a previous one: Facebook imports gmail contacts without knowing the password. How.? (June 22nd 2009).

The first time I encountered this practice was when signing up for ooVoo. Being unprepared, I fell into the trap - I of course immediately changed the password (to a much more secure one), but nevertheless, after the incident, spammers have started spamming using my name and gmail account as spoofed sending address. Maybe a coincidence, I don't know, but it's certainly made me more acutely aware of the privacy issues involved.

Do I have a question? Two actually: Thanks, --NorwegianBluetalk 23:41, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) I'm aware of Facebook, Twitter and ooVoo that do this. Other sites?
 * 2) Does this practice have a name and perhaps an article?


 * Lots of sites apparently do this, even though it is a horrible, horrible idea. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 02:11, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks, that was a really excellent link! A must-read for anyone considering signing up for facebook etc (they do have a "skip this step" option, not very prominent, but it's there) --NorwegianBluetalk 08:02, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * If you've given your email details to Facebook, they've stored your contacts and will use them for things like Suggestions ("People You Might Know"). You can delete that data here. — Matt Eason (Talk &#149; Contribs) 22:04, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I haven't though, but thanks for the link. I quickly realized my mistake after my bad experience with ooVoo. Since I own a couple of domains, I simply assign a different address to each site that I do business with, whether it be Facebook or Amazon. Facebook is currently 3019 at mydomain dot net. The addresses redirect to my real account, which is unknown to the other party. This has two advantages: gmail filtering becomes very easy, and elimination of an account email address that starts getting used by spammers is a piece of cake. —Preceding unsigned comment added by NorwegianBlue (talk • contribs)


 * Googling suggested that password scraping might be the phrase I'm looking for. Is that correct, or does it mean something else? --NorwegianBluetalk 19:41, 26 June 2009 (UTC)