Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2009 November 3

= November 3 =

Windows 7 32-bit & 64-bit DVDs the same?
Hi. I can download the images for Windows 7 for 32-bit and 64-bit. I was wondering if I need to download both images and burn them to two DVDs, or if one of them will be sufficient.

Also, I was wondering if the keys are interchangeable between 32-bit and 64-bit; i.e. if I have a key for 64-bit can I use it to install on a 32-bit computer, or vice versa? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.97.244.36 (talk) 01:28, 3 November 2009 (UTC)


 * It's not our job on the Refdesk to encourage software piracy, so you're unlikely to get a great response here. By the way, you should know that any software you get from a torrent could have a Trojan horse like a keylogger installed and you'd never know.  Comet Tuttle (talk) 01:34, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * No, but it is the job of the reference desk to answer questions, not throw about speculation on what the op might do with the information.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.88.201 (talk) 16:09, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Why assume the OP is engaged in software piracy? For all you know s/he could be a MSDN or MSDNAA user. Getting infected by trojans and keyloggers is a risk all Windows users face, no matter where they get their software from. No, the 32 and 64 bit discs are different. F (talk) 04:05, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, but the vast majority of pirated copies of windows available on the usual torrent sites (well, minus the pirate bay now) have these integrated into the install image. Its not as simple as running a virus scan like it is with a later, not as tightly integrated, infection. --69.110.14.74 (talk) 05:11, 3 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I think it's a fair assumption to make because I've personally got access to Windows 7 through Volume Licensing, MSDN and TechNet Plus (basically all the legal ways you can download it) and they give you the serial codes for each version/architecture and it's all very clear for which version it will work with (for MSDN and TechNet the "Keys" link is literally right next to the "Download link") However, to answer the actual question, unlike Vista, Windows 7 uses the same codes for both 32-bit and 64-bit discs. ZX81  talk  05:01, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Bit Torrent automatic quitting
In BitTorrent there’s an option to quit when downloads have completed. I want to know whether there is any way in which I can make BitTorrent quit automatically when the downloads haven’t completed, but the downloading has stopped because of the scheduler. Thanks in advance! 117.194.231.6 (talk) 10:15, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

How to become a good (PHP) programmer?
As of now, I can write web applications with PHP skript and mysql database that are only a tiny bit complex, say only 5 tables and 10 pages. The way it is written is probably amateurish, with more number of functions than needed etc. It would be nice if I could write complex applications. Could you please say what theoretical and practical stuff I need to learn / do in order to become a good programmer?.


 * The only way to improve as a programmer, like all other things in life, is to do more of it. Jump into a larger project, something you don't quite understand. There are also books that talk about coding in general and aim to sharpen your abilities. I have not read any of them, personally. I have heard that Code Complete is considered quite good. But others will have their own opinions on that. In terms of theoretical things, understanding how to use arrays and classes helps a lot; understanding how to use PHP in conjunction with Javascript is rather important to many pages these days. Again, it is better to have a project in mind than to just read the manual page, of course. --Mr.98 (talk) 13:18, 3 November 2009 (UTC)


 * It's a much commoner mistake to have too few functions than too many, so you're off to a good start! Sr. 98 is correct, though: practice is the way to go.  Read a little, code a little, repeat.  --Sean 17:45, 3 November 2009 (UTC)


 * For one thing, try some other languages besides PHP, not because PHP is so bad, but because having experience in lots of languages will deepen your understanding. Thedailywtf.com is a fun place to see crazy errors that inexperienced programmers (a lot of them PHP programmers) make.  It's possible that reading that site for a while will give you ideas of how things go wrong and what kinds of stuff to avoid.  Finally, spend some time studying good code and getting a sense of what holds it together.  I don't know whether MediaWiki is an example of good code, but it's a large PHP application that is pretty significant.  Maybe someone else can suggest alternatives. 69.228.171.150 (talk) 01:50, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Football Manager 2010
What specs would I need on a laptop/desktop to run the new Football Manager game with all leagues and maximum database and with high performance? How much would such a computer cost? 81.134.2.136 (talk) 11:43, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

The specs are:

Intel CPU	- 	 Pentium 4 3.0GHz

AMD CPU	- 	Athlon 64 4000+

Nvidia Graphics Card	- 	Geforce 7600 GT 256MB

ATI & Intel Graphics Card	- 	Radeon X1800 Series 256MB

RAM	- 	1.5 GB

Hard Disk Space	- 	2.5 GB

Direct X	- 	9

Apparently... more than I suspected for a management game. The 3 gig pentium 4 is a bit more demanding that I expected, but the graphics card isn't particularly cutting edge. You could purchase the parts from reputable online stores and build yourself a desktop computer that knock that game out of the park for about (excluding monitor and/or mouse etc.) £450. I would have suggested a ballpark laptop figure if you are buying one of £400-600. Use google to convert that to dollars if you live across the pond. SGGH ping! 12:21, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Are these not the minimum requirements? I'm talking about using the maximum capacity of the game and I suspect it would require a lot more than 256Mb RAM. Where did you get this information? 81.134.2.136 (talk) 15:29, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I think the IP's right. Based on personal experience, FM manager games "work"at lower memory, but few people will put up with 10mins loading each 30 mins game-time for long. - Jarry1250 [Humorous? Discuss.] 17:50, 3 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I think the RAM mentioned refers to the vidoe adapter. --Phil Holmes (talk) 21:58, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Reformatted for clarity. 1.5GB of RAM is recommended. 218.25.32.210 (talk) 03:55, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

How to protect a picture II
Follow-up question to: Reference_desk/Computing. OK, it is clear that you cannot protect a picture against being copied. However, what about embedding something in the picture, so that you'll know if someone copied it and uploaded it somewhere else? That wouldn't work against "print screen", but it would work against the casual user. I am asking not for commercial purposes, but for privacy purposes. My intention is not to protect my multi-media, but to avoid that someone take my picture from a social networking site and mess with it. 80.58.205.37 (talk) 11:50, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * You mean a watermark? SGGH ping! 12:22, 3 November 2009 (UTC)


 * No, I think they mean some kind of tracking device, so you could see who was using it. There is no such thing, sorry. There are invisible digital watermarks (like Digimarc), which are like regular watermarks but are invisible—that's about as close as it comes. Such a file will not report back to you though if it is being used and abused. Again, if you care about the privacy... don't upload it. You have no real control once it is out there in the world—it is easily copyable, editable, and so forth. --Mr.98 (talk) 12:59, 3 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Also, you can use services like Tineye to find where your pictures are being used 212.140.174.46 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:47, 3 November 2009 (UTC).
 * Will Tineye work if the photo is modified? That seems to be part of the assumption in the query. --Mr.98 (talk) 23:37, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * In my experience, Tineye will find pictures even when they are substantially different. The limiting factor seems to be the size of the Tineye index.212.140.174.46 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:27, 4 November 2009 (UTC).
 * Of course the database is also only ever going to be limited to the publicly accessible internet too. Even if it archives all that (which is obviously impossible), if someone is using copies of your picture in a nationwide advertising campaign in Nepal, printing it on T-shirts in China or it's in a TV show in Argentina you'll never know unless someone uploads something displaying your image on the internet Nil Einne (talk) 17:13, 5 November 2009 (UTC)


 * The DRM article is littered with the corpses of failed attempts at exactly the kind of thing you're trying to do, worked on by billion-dollar corporations for decades. It can't be done.  Your best bet is to have anyone you wish to view the media but not share it sign a non-disclosure agreement, come into a room carrying no electronic devices, view the media, and then leave.  Even that method has holes.  Your worst bet is to put the image on social media sharing sites.  --Sean 17:53, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Why the Sandy Berger reference? Not familiar with this, and skimming the article I didn't find anything... --Ouro (blah blah) 07:31, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The scenario I described would be vulnerable to a Sandy Berger-style stuff-the-documents-down-the-pants maneuver. --Sean 14:30, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

How to download emails to HD from Windows Live Hotmail free account
I've searched on the web for this information and I've only found webpages that say this is possible even for the free account - they do not give step by step details, possibly because this has only become available recently. I use Windows Live Hotmail online - I might have dowbloaded and installed something relating to this but if so it does not make itself known. I am using WinXP Sp3 and IE8. So how do I actually do it please? I found something that said you should click on "Account", but I cannot find "Account" anywhere. Thanks. 78.151.90.163 (talk) 13:00, 3 November 2009 (UTC)


 * You can setup Outlook Express or any other e-mail program to download e-mail from your Hotmail inbox. If you want the e-mail to remain on the website, you must check the "Leave a copy of messages on server" option, otherwise the e-mails will be removed from the website during the download. --Bavi H (talk) 02:07, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Do HP printers refuse to print when the HP ink cartridges are past a pre-set date?
I know this happens with Epson cartridges, but does something similar happen with HP? I refill my cartridges myself. The printer is from a few years ago. I'm very experienced in overcoming various error messages (blinking lights to be more accurate). But I wonder if there is something beyond this. I do not think the older HP cartridges have chips in them, but maybe a date could be coded into the pattern of electrical contacts for example. 78.151.90.163 (talk) 13:38, 3 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Are you sure about this? Printers generally have no knowledge of the date. My understanding of the Epson cartridges was that some of them counted squirts of ink and when the cartridge ought to be empty then they stopped firing regardless. (This is all unsubstanciated rumour). -- SGBailey (talk) 16:45, 4 November 2009 (UTC)


 * If the printer is connected to your computer by USB (or even parallel port), and you have drivers and bidirectional communication working there's no reason it can't know the date. However more likely the computer knows the date and refuses to print if the catridge has expired (so the printer itself doesn't really 'know the date' per se). The expiration date is contained in the chip which many catridges now have. Either way you can I presume hack the drivers to report a false date or in the second case to ignore the expiration date. However I saw something in the references which suggests some printers mark the catridge as bad (or whatever) so it can no longer be used without a chip resetter so you have to realise this before you first use it or your SOL. From a quick glance at these sources, it appears something like this does happen.  . It appears some printers even with the chipped catridges with expiration date do allow you to print, they just warn you. Also as you mentioned, chipped catridges also stop working when they are supposed to be 'empty'. I believe some also do other things to try and prevent refiling. What precisely your printer does will depend on the specific model and ink catridge I presume. Personally I prefer the mid range (e.g. IP4x00 line) Canon printers because of the individual ink tanks and they don't tend to be as bad (IMHO) as HP and Epson (for example they were unchipped for quite a while although my IP4300 is and they have been chipped for a while now) Edit: Looking more closely at the refs, it appears I was partially wrong. Some printers do evidentally have a battery to keep the date internally so you can't just fool it with the driver. I didn't look in detail but I presume this date is set by the drivers, but only forwards. (Although I wonder what happens if someone sets their date to bet 2020 or something and then finds their printer can't print again...) Interesting enough it appears the battery is essential in some in other words they aren't (or weren't since it's from 2005) capable of getting the date from the computer and using internal power for this. Maybe the date in the printer is set from factory, who knows, I'm not really that interested it just reenforces my believe on the evils of HP. From what I can tell from a quick Google, Canon doesn't yet do this shit, in fact I'm not even sure if Epson does  (and one of the earlier links) although they have other issues). P.P.S. If your printer accepts standard PS files and doesn't need special drivers then obviously getting the date from the computer is not a plausible solution Nil Einne (talk) 16:40, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

After buying some new printer cartridges my printer still did not work. But after I had cleaned the electrical contacts to the cartridge inside the printer it did work. (Note - never scrub the ink jets on the cartridge - they are very delicate). So my suspicion is probably wrong. Thanks. 78.147.8.170 (talk) 13:08, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

How do I transfer my computer's data when I get a new one?
This is a really basic question I'm sure for you guys but it's not for me. I have a somewhat older computer (c. 2004ish? can't remember). I'm running window XP, have 6 gigs (I think), and 520 megs on a Dell Dimension 2400. If I get a new computer, how do I get all my programs and data onto that new computer which will probably run Windows 7? Do I need an external device to transfer it? How do I actually do it? Spoonfeeding required. Thanks in advance.--162.84.163.33 (talk) 13:50, 3 November 2009 (UTC)


 * If you're asking how to move such stuff as already installed Windows software, the simple answer is that you can't. You can give it a go, and some bits might work, but finding out which they are and deleting the rest will take you longer than it would just to reinstall. If you have kept all your "data" (word processing files, mail, etc) on a separate logical drive, then you could use Clonezilla or similar to copy it all onto something external and capacious and then to copy from that into the new computer. -- Hoary (talk) 14:34, 3 November 2009 (UTC)


 * As said above, most "native" Windows apps cannot be simply copied, they must be re-installed on the new computer. For the rest (data, documents, media files etc):
 * If you have a DVD burner, the simplest solution is to burn two DVDs and copy the data from them into the new computer
 * You could buy or borrow and USB stick or external hard drive
 * If you have a home network, you could "share" the hard disk on the old computer and access it from the new computer
 * Assuming the computers are not laptops, you could physically put the hard drive from the old computer into the new one. This is not very complicated, and someone else can probably give you a link on how to do it, though it might be compatibility issues (but I would not expect there to be). In this case you wouldn't have to copy the data (though you might want to for security or practical reasons), the old disk would simply show up as D: or E: or something on the new computer.
 * As for the specific copying, you open Windows Explorer and drag-and-drop all the contents you want to keep from the old drive into the new one (for DVDs it may be slightly different to write to the DVD, but exactly the same to copy from it). This can be very slow for many files but is much easier than the more complicated methods of moving the entire partition. Jørgen (talk) 17:37, 3 November 2009 (UTC)


 * As for what to copy; unless you have stuck stuff in unusual places, copy everything in "My Documents". If you are someone who saves photos, documents, etc. to the desktop, don't forget those too.  You might also want to consider copying your internet favorites, emails, email contacts.  Also track down stuff you have downloaded (especially things you paid for).  Astronaut (talk) 00:41, 4 November 2009 (UTC)


 * If you only have 6ish GB of data, its probably easiest is to get a USB stick (8GB or 16GB) and use that as the transfer medium. More elegant would be to set both computers up on the network and simply copy data across - with Linux and scp or rsync, that would be trivial. There are scp clients for Windows (see puTTY), but I don't know if there is easy way of getting the server (remote) site to work under Windows. Or switch to Apple - apparently Apple offers file transfer from a PC to a new Apple as a free service (but you need to take it to a shop). One of the less visible, but more impressive features of Apple's line is the ability to automatically move all user data from an old to a new Mac - when I got my last Mac, it told me to plug a Firewire cable into both machines, and some x minutes later, all the stuff MacOS-X could know about was copied over - including payware (Wolfenstein and Warcraft-III). I only had to reinstall the Linuxy Fink that lived outside the normal MacOS-X world in its own top level directory hierarchy. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 15:21, 4 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Personally I would recommend the entire Documents and Settings folder of Windows XP. In other words all users and all data in them. This should ensure you get program data you might want like bookmarks. Some savegames too. However if you do have games (with only 6gb I would guess no), you'll need to take more care since some old games unfortunately still store data in the program directory. There are a few programs too but it's not that common they have anything important (some P2P programs are an exception) unless you saved stuff in odd places. With only 6gb I recommend you just copy everything just in case. If you're using Explorer I recommend you turn off the Hide options in Tools, folder options, view and in particular make sure you display hidden files etc. Perhaps leave out the page file, and if it exists the hibernation file. Unless you're planning to get a netbook or laptop with solid state drive, the 6gb is only likely to be a small percentage of your new HDD so your unlikely to have to worry about disc space. Nil Einne (talk) 16:10, 5 November 2009 (UTC)


 * You may be interested in the Windows Easy Transfer for transferring from Windows XP (32 bit) to Windows 7. 12.165.250.13 (talk) 18:18, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

server adminstration under linux for beginners
Basically a windows user and i'm largely a web designer. I will most likely have to co-administer a web server running linux soon. Out of curiousity I tried linux as desktop on a few occasions over the years only to go back to windows. I am being given a windows machine and im thinking of installing cygwin to learn linux commands since I forgot them. I have never administered a web server under any OS. Please say how I go about it?.


 * I wouldn't install cygwin for this task, as cygwin runs daemons (apache et al) as windows services, and the interface there is rather Windows specific (and a bit annoying), and I don't think it'd really help you prepare for maintaining a linux machine - and it's poor preparation for installing and removing software, managing logs, or manipulating startup/shutdown etc. Rather than Cygwin I'd install linux on the machine properly (ubuntu linux is popular and user friendly, but you should check which distribution is run by the machine you'll be managing, as redhat/fedora type machines do some things differently from debian/ubuntu type ones). You could (if you're really pushed for machines) put Linux into a virtual machine (VM ware etc.), but again you'd have some issues with bridging the network between the windows host and the linux VM, and so again you're doing work that doesn't simulate the task you want. It's likely that the server will run Apache (or maybe Websphere), so you really need to know the ins-and-outs of its config (particularly if you're used to IIS). Beyond that you'll find any number of online tutorials (but search for "red hat system administrators guide" or "ubuntu..." rather than just linux).  The book "Unix System Administration Handbook" by Nemeth, Snyder, Seebass, and Hein is a decent introduction (but it's a bit shallow). I'd strongly recommend maintaining a machine running the same OS version and variant as the production machine, so you can mess around on that without fear of breaking the live site - if you only have the live machine, you'll be (rightly) scared of doing anything on it. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 14:19, 3 November 2009 (UTC)


 * You could install some flavor of GNU/Linux as an alternative to Windows, selectable via grub on boot-up. (I assume that your new computer, like most, has a ridiculously large hard drive. If your hard drive, like mine, seems to have been designed for storing pirated movies, a second OS won't cause any strain.) -- Hoary (talk) 14:39, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

The Linux system adminstrator's guide used to be considered pretty good, though it's incredibly old by now. Might still be ok to help get started. 69.228.171.150 (talk) 22:43, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Frozen computer screens
I have a couple of pages on my computer that are frozen to the point of not responding to any commands. I can't close them at all. I can minimize them but they won't go away. I have tried turning the computer on an off, unplugging it and plugging it back in, doing everything I know how to do but I can't close the screens no matter what. They have been on for two days. What do I do? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.166.96.156 (talk) 15:55, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by pages? Do you mean windows? What do the windows (or whatever) look like? Do they have text or images in them? When you say you turned the computer on and off, do you mean that you shut down the operating system? When you turned it on again, when did the windows/pages reappear? -- BenRG (talk) 16:18, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Are you sure that you really shut down the OS and restarted it? Perhaps you only went into hibernation mode (where the computer actually is off, but the contents of the RAM are saved to the hard drive, and restored afterwards)? --Andreas Rejbrand (talk) 19:56, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Could these "pages" be generated by the monitor itself? Try turning your monitor/screen off and back on again.–RHolton ≡ – 05:24, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

CD/DVD Tray not opening.
I have a Dell C521 desktop about 3 years old and just out of warranty (Boo-hoo) which has suddenly developed the above problem - but not all the time. It plays and records fine but as before, it sometimes won't open. I have read on other pages how to stick a straightened paper clip through the tiny hole and push gently - but that doesn't work for me. So, given I use the CD/DVD facility quite a lot, do I have to replace it, and if so, will my PC recognise the new one or do I need software to make it so? And if I take the faulty one to my local PC Spares Shop (say Maplins UK) will they be able to supply a like for like player, or must I go back to Dell? Thanks. 92.8.6.118 (talk) 18:54, 3 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Essentially all desktop optical drives are the same size and shape, and fit into the same size hole, so a cheap replacement (which should cost about £20) should fit fine. If your Dell desktop is anything like mine, actually getting the old one out might be more of a challenge than on a generic PC (I had to pull all kinds of funny little levers and remove the plastic fascia plate to get the darn thing out). -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 19:03, 3 November 2009 (UTC)


 * The drive will come with its own software drivers. Your regular software will recognize it. It is probably not worth trying to repair the old one. You can get internal CD-R/DVD-R drives for very cheap these days. Installation is not very hard, as far as hardware goes—it is all standardized. --Mr.98 (talk) 00:24, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

File folder read as a file
Hi, my USB stick has many folders on it, one of which computers now think are a file and ask what program to open it with. I think this occured when pulling my USB out of a computer without using the Safely Remove Hardware thing. Is there anyway of making computers realise it is a folder or should I just delete it? I can't remember how important the contents are as I don't really know whats in there. Thanks. 86.138.158.223 (talk) 21:31, 3 November 2009 (UTC)


 * It almost certainly really is a file. You can get this kind of thing if you execute a command like copy foo u:\bar where bar is a folder, and you expect to end up with a file called u:\bar\foo. But if there isn't a folder called u:\bar (it's called something else, or it's been deleted) then you'll end up making a file called u:\bar that contains the same thing as foo. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 21:36, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Try opening it in 7zip —Preceding unsigned comment added by .isika (talk • contribs) 21:39, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

mod_wsgi not loading in Apache
So I downloaded mod_wsgi for Apache (an odd file), renamed it to, and placed it in the  folder (the proper place, on Windows (which I'm running)). To activate it (it's apparently not activated by just being in the folder), I'm supposed to go into the httpd configuration file in the folder, where I should put the command  which loads it. Note that this is exactly how the others were loaded in the same httpd conf file. Now save, and restart the server to see the changes... and I get this error: "The requested operation has failed!". Now I comment out the line that I added... and it works like a charm (but with the obvious side effect that the module isn't loaded).

What am I doing wrong? What should I be doing to make it work? Thanks, [&#65279;flaminglawyer] 22:22, 3 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Make sure you have exactly the version of mod_wsgi for your particular version of Apache; Apache is all too willing to barf chunks when it encounters a plugin that was built for a different version. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 22:29, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I downloaded something mod_wsgi's list of downloads saying it was for "(Win32/Apache 2.2/Python 3.1)". I'm running 32-bit Win, Apache 2.2, and Python 3.0. Installing Python 3.1 right now, seeing if it helps. [&#65279;flaminglawyer] 22:58, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * 3.1.1 installed, now it produces no errors on loading! Now to figure out the virtualhost things... *sigh* [&#65279;flaminglawyer] 23:24, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Logout/logoff folder or script or equiv?
On Windows, is there a mechanism to force a local script or folder of commands to be executed during logoff, comparable to what happens in StartMenu/Programs/Startup?

I think that what's needed for my office could be accomplished with a  file, but one of the requirements is to run one of the MSOffice modules, which in turn requires interacting with the user, waiting for him to finish, save the file, exit the program, etc. So, such a file or script has to be in the right place in the logoff/shutdown sequence where such interaction is still permitted.

(In fact, what would be ideal is to prompt the user for whether he still needs to run the exit program (it only has to be run once a day), and skip it if not, but that kind of scripting is likely beyond what I can do. I know I can prompt the user with , but don't have a clue how to get a response and test it in a   file...)

This is WinXpPro, if it makes a difference.

Any advice? Thanks! --DaHorsesMouth (talk) 23:27, 3 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I have not tried this, and so am not sure it will work, but this problem is described here with a solution. There seem to be other options via a Google search on windows "shut down" script. --Phil Holmes (talk) 14:55, 4 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Got it -- thanks! Once again it's the case that knowing what something is properly called makes it much easier to search for! --DaHorsesMouth (talk) 23:30, 4 November 2009 (UTC)