Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2009 September 17

= September 17 =

Editing MIMEs in Firefox 3.5?
Just curious how to edit MIME mapping in Firefox 3.5. There was an add-on called MIME Edit, but it doesn't work with v3.5. I'm trying to get Firefox to properly send .7z and .XAR files to the correct decompression utility. --70.167.58.6 (talk) 00:01, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Mouse Focus & Installing Software Under Security Measures
Alright, I'm on a Windows XP, Version 5.1.2600, and I have two questions.

1. When I open the start menu using the Windows logo button on my keyboard, and my mouse happens to be in the same place that the start menu appears, the mouse takes focus, and possibly opens a side-menu that I don't want to open. Is there any way to get it to listen to the keyboard by default, and to the mouse only if I jiggle the mouse?

2. I am on a non-admin account, to prevent software getting installed that I don't want installed. Ideally, when I download an installation program from my non-admin account, I should then be able to switch user and install from the admin account. For some reason, however, my computer decides to do two (possibly related?) things when it downloads the installation program: it makes the file read-only (is this because it's large, and making it read-only saves memory?), and it locks the file from other users. I am explicitly putting the file into shared documents, which I think would make it clear that I want it to be shared, but my computer wants to make it inaccessible for my admin account. How do I prevent this from happening?

thanks, --129.116.47.61 (talk) 01:33, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * For what it's worth, I just tried #1 under Vista and its behavior is the way you want it; so, one way to get it to do this would be to upgrade to Vista. I salute you on your #2 item, running as a non-admin.  I am a bit surprised that a downloaded file would be inaccessible to an admin.  What happens when you try right-clicking it and opening it as an administrator?  Tempshill (talk) 06:14, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm not very likely to be upgrading to Vista anytime soon, so that doesn't do me any good. I was wondering if there is some setting hidden somewhere that would do what I want?
 * Running it as an administrator from my non-admin account still suffers the same problem. Is that what you were talking about, when you said to "try right-clicking it and opening it as an administrator"? --129.116.47.61 (talk) 13:23, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * No one else has any answer? That makes me sad. :( --129.116.47.61 (talk) 23:00, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Firefox Plug to Download Every Web Page Visited?
I'm trying to find if there is a firefox plug-in that will automatically save a local copy of every page I visit on my hard drive. Anyone know if it exists?

--Grey1618 (talk) 04:36, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Shelve Itseems perfect for you. Saves to folders of your choice, configurable templates, and can be set to save automatically and write a log file. - KoolerStill (talk) 16:25, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Automatic switch on
Is there any software or any method which will enable my PC to be automatically switched on from hibernate mode, at a specific time, and to automatically connect to the internet, and run a program I specify (for example, Bit Torrent)? Thanks in advance. 117.194.224.227 (talk) 08:42, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes. In Windows it's called "Scheduled Tasks" and can be found in the Control Panel. Some how-to guides are available. (I'm in the middle of trying to get mine to start playing BBC Radio 1, but opening up a specific web link is slightly trickier.)
 * If you're running a Unix-like system, I think you want cron. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 09:11, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't think these work when the computer is hibernating. When it's on hibernate, the computer is completely off, no processes are run, especially not cron or the Scheduled Tasks service. The only thing I can think of is some sort of wake-on-lan solution, but then you need something else to wake the computer up, so it seems to defeat the purpose.
 * Easiest solution: keep the computer on, and use RSS feeds with your bittorrent client to automatically start downloading stuff. 195.58.125.104 (talk) 09:52, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Easier solution: just put your pc on standby. It hardly consumes any power, can be up in seconds, and scheduled tasks work with it. I used to play a playlist every morning.
 * No, it does work (for Scheduled Tasks at least) if the computer is hibernating rather than shut down. I've used it many times. In the Properties of a Scheduled Task, there's a Settings tab with a Power Management section. "Wake the computer to run this task" needs to be checked. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 10:47, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Some motherboards allow you to configure a power cycling schedule from the BIOS. This supersedes any software program control for powering on or off.  Nimur (talk) 15:39, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I was able to make BitTorrent run on its own after waking up from hibernation automatically, but I can't schedule automatic internet connection. Please help. Is there any way I can write a command prompt program that will connect to the broadband when run?? 117.194.229.189 (talk) 14:01, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Browser 3d
O3D, 3d CSS elements , html 5.. All these have some form of 3d functionality. I want to make a category, something like "browser based 3d graphics technologies" or something..

Can your expertise supply further examples if they exist. Also found Web3D.

Also maybe there is already an article describing this topic - it looks like there are too many different methods at present - is there a standard, or any attempt to make a standard? Thanks.87.102.94.154 (talk) 09:57, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Lets not forget our history and include VRML and it's successor X3D. They are pretty much attempts at creating an internet 3d "standard". 195.58.125.104 (talk) 10:06, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Also I'm wondering about the term Web3D - the article gives the impression that it is a coverall term, but it seems to be associated with the Web 3D consortium - do people use the term "web3d" for all browser based 3d, or is it just some wiki editors idea?87.102.94.154 (talk) 10:18, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

memtest86 on CD
Hello there, I have just downloaded memtest86 and unzipped it. After unzipping a new file memtest86.ISO appeared. Should I write memtest86.ISO file on CD or unzip it again? Thank you--202.56.7.153 (talk) 11:00, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * .iso files are ISO images of CD's and DVD's. You need an image burner like imgburn to burn it onto a CD. --antilivedT 11:10, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * memtest86 is a program that, if I recall, runs as a boot disk (you boot from the CD). So you need to burn it to a CD. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 13:49, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * 98 is correct. You are supposed to burn the .iso to a CD or DVD, then boot from it.  Memtest86 will load and start testing your memory for as long as you allow it to run.  Comet Tuttle (talk) 16:48, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * How much time (appropriate time) I should run memtest to test the ram? Thanks--119.30.36.54 (talk) 18:02, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * At a minimum, let it run through one cycle of all the tests, which will take an hour or two, depending on the speed of your RAM and how much you have. Overclockers and other people concerned about stability will often let it run for 24 hours.  Of course, as soon as Memtest finds errors, you know the RAM is bad and don't need to let it run any longer. --Carnildo (talk) 00:18, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Command promt
Can I use command prompt to message another computer?Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 13:24, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * In what way? ssh or irc are likely to be what you want. --194.197.235.240 (talk) 13:35, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Using the command prompt like im.Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 13:47, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * What operating system are you using? decltype (talk) 13:51, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * XpAccdude92 (talk) (sign) 14:06, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

It is irc then. If you want to do this just for the sake of something new, I recommend emacs for the client. --194.197.235.240 (talk) 14:29, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Within a LAN, it may be possible to use the net send command. I am not sure, but I think that's limited to local networks, i.e. you can't send a message to a random friend in another location.  -- LarryMac  | Talk  15:31, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * The widely-known Pidgin (software) has a console version for most operating systems called Finch. Here's the help page.  It's much easier to install on Linux/Unix systems, but you can run it on Windows as well.  Nimur (talk) 16:29, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * (Er, I guess the Windows Cygwin port is no longer developed). Nimur (talk) 16:32, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

document.getElementsBy
So i have some java script and I want to "document.getElementsBy" the value 1234567 from



How do I do this? Thanks for your help!!


 * It's not automatic—basically if there isn't already a supported method (e.g. getElementById) you have to write a custom function that will cycle through all elements on the page and see if they have that value. (If there is any way just instead get it by its name or its ID, those are both a lot easier). --98.217.14.211 (talk) 15:23, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Here's a function that ought to work. Basically it goes through all "INPUT" tags, looks to see if the value is what you wanted it to be, and then returns a pointer to the first element it finds that matches that value. If it doesn't find any, it returns false. If you really need it to return elements (more than one), it would not be hard to modify to return an array of all found control ids.

function getElementByValue(checkValue) { for (i=0;i<document.getElementsByTagName("input").length;i++) { var ctl = document.getElementsByTagName("input")[i]; if(ctl.value==checkValue) { return ctl; }	}	return false; } --98.217.14.211 (talk) 15:26, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * A Javascript toolkit makes these kinds of things much less tedious. This Prototype snippet does what you want:

var my_elements = $$('input[value="1234567"]');
 * $$ is just a normal function ("$" is a valid identifier character in Javascript) that takes a CSS selector -- which is a pretty convenient way to zip around a DOM tree -- and returns matching elements. --Sean 16:22, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Eh, if it's for a simple job, the straightforward approach is both quicker, simpler, and doesn't require learning a whole new syntax (much less including an extra 140KB of scripts you won't use). In principle I think toolkits are a good idea (esp. because cross-platform js is hard), but knowing how to do it in the raw language is a valuable thing in an of itself. "Convenience" is not generally an always-good-thing when it comes to good programming. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 16:32, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * While your points are valid, I think learning the new syntax (advanced CSS selectors) is probably a lot easier than learning to use, optimise, and debug lots of DOM functionality. For instance, in your example, will the repeated calls to  be optimised, or will this perform poorly if there are many input elements on the page? Using a library lets you avoid (many of) these pitfalls, as the library's authors have already looked into them.
 * The current "minified" download of jQuery weighs in at 55KB, or 19KB when transmitted using gzip compression. While this is still a lot if you're only using it once, the chances are that if you're doing this kind of manipulation, it will be useful elsewhere on the page as well. - IMSoP (talk) 15:48, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Minitab Learning?
I am very new to this statistical software called Minitab, how do I go about mastering it as the book seems to be very less helpful, are there any videos we can download and learn as I do learn from visuals more than the text. Anyone please help..

RAM question
I friend of mine has recently built a new PC. Unfortunately, he did not pay enough attention when picking the RAM modules, and ended up buying something that is not on the approved list for the particular motherboard he is using. The RAM does not work in dual-channel configuration at all, so he installed it as single-channel for now. Now, every time he turns his PC on, it either reboots mid-POST or hangs up when Windows starts to load (in which case a manual reboot in needed). When the PC boots up for the second time, there are never any problems, and he is yet to experience a single problem in Windows that can be attributed to non-compliant RAM. Any subsequent reboots are also flawless; it takes powering the PC off completely and waiting for at least a couple hours to reproduce the problem.

We both realize that to fix this he needs to buy fully compatible modules, but I nevertheless am curious as to the nature of the problem. Why does it always (and I mean always) take another reboot to get in after the PC has been off for at least a couple of hours?—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 16:44, September 17, 2009 (UTC)


 * I've never bothered to check the compatibility list of a particular ram to a motherboard - as long as it's something the motherboard accepts (eg. DDR2 or DDR3) it would usually work. Is this maybe a new Core i7 rig? The i7's have the memory controller built into the CPU which has stricter requirements - namely a lower voltage than previous DDR3's. Perhaps you bought higher-voltage DDR3 ram and it doesn't intialise properly while everything is starting from a cold boot (high current drain pulling down the voltage from the PSU), but after the initial current rush (eg. spinning up hard drives) the voltages go back to normal and everything function properly once again. However this is purely speculation, so don't take my word on it. --antilivedT 06:12, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Speculation is OK :) It's not like anything important is going to be affected; I am merely curious why the things are the way they are.  Incidentally, this is not an i7 rig; it's a Q8400.  In light of this, would your voltage drain explanation still apply?  Thanks much!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 12:06, September 18, 2009 (UTC)
 * Unless the PSU is near/over its capacity I don't think it's a likely cause. I have a similar system (Q6600 + 4GB DDR2 ram on a 620W PSU), overclocked, and I've never had that problem before. Can you give more information about the system, like motherboard chipset, ram model and power supply model? --antilivedT 13:32, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Nope, it's a 750W PSU, and it's hardly near its capacity. The RAM is DDR3, though.  Anyway, I don't have the exact specs/models at hand, but I'll get them from my friend and post them here later today or tomorrow.  Thanks for your willingness to help!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 16:05, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

How much does it cost to start a wiki?
Technically, I know little more about wikis than to post content such as this question. I have an idea what the content would be. How much would it cost, in terms of time and money, would it cost to set up a wiki like Conservapedia, Citizendium, or these two? http://wikiindex.org/Welcome http://royalist.ca/wiki/Main_Page Keep in mind, I'm in Canada. Thanks.192.30.202.13 (talk) 18:28, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Every part of the Wiki software that runs Wikipedia, including MediaWiki and the back-end server software (Apache server and MySQL) are free free software - which means that they are available at no cost and with a very open legal license permitting their use and customization for almost all purposes. Further, these can be run on free operating systems.  This means you can run the wiki for zero cost.  You will possibly need to purchase a web hosting service, or own a computer with a viable network connection (such hardware may cost you money).  Do you need assistance setting up a MediaWiki installation?  There are lots of tutorials available, such as the official Installation Guide.  There are other competing tools, servers, and wiki softwares available, but I have found the easiest to set up is MediaWiki on an Ubuntu server.  Nimur (talk) 18:34, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks Nimur. (I checked your user page. Impressive :-) The thing is, I don't have a lot of money, but I have a fair amount of time--the lowest 10% in the socio-economic spectrum. I'm thinking of a few, maybe several, $100's.192.30.202.11 (talk) 19:46, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I would investigate Internet web hosting providers that advertise that their hosting services allow for a Wiki installation. (Specifically, MediaWiki would probably be preferable &mdash; it's the framework Wikipedia uses.)  Then you won't need any hardware but will need to pay the US$20 per month or whatever that they charge you for the hosting services.  Comet Tuttle (talk) 20:12, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Again, it's virtually free to set up a MediaWiki installation, but making it available to the internet at large requires a network connection and enough computing power to satisfy the demand. Low-cost hosting is available from ~ $10 per year from many commercial web hosting providers ("renting space on somebody else's server"), and if your website and wiki receive low- to medium- traffic, this is suitable for your needs.  If you expect a very large volume of visitors (e.g. tens to hundreds of unique visitors per minute - or if you anticipate regular large file transfers/video hosting), hosting costs increase dramatically.  You probably want a host with shell access so you can configure your wiki install; or a provider who will set this up for you.  Nimur (talk) 20:29, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe we're thinking of different providers, but most of the "cheap but not rickety" providers (e.g. dreamhost, bluehost) are ~$10 per month, not year. Which is still pretty cheap, but not <$1 per month, if you want something that will give you the kind of space and control that I imagine installing MediaWiki requires. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 13:37, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * See Comparison of wiki farms for more options. You may be able to get started at no cost, if you choose a free provider. If you plan to invite the general public to participate in the wiki, you should keep an eye on the copyrights to be sure you will be free to move it later to a different host. If you have no previous IT experience or hobbyist skills, setting up Mediawiki yourself would not be trivial. Being a site administrator on a wiki farm would spare you most of this trouble. EdJohnston (talk) 23:57, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Great answers everyone--I'm using another computer hence different IP address. I will check all links. I suppose one last concern (at least one I can think of now), is the "what if." If my wiki does poorly with me being the main editor, I suppose I can go on the cheap. But what if it becomes as sucessful as Conservapedia, Citizendium, or Wikinfo? Should I have a large memory and traffic capacity to begin with as the price might be reasonable, or is there the possibility of going little memory to big memory--possibly transfering memory--such as articles, with dates of edits intact. Thanks to all, and a happy weekend to all.:-)206.130.173.55 (talk) 17:20, 18 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Get something cheap. If you suddenly become massively popular, you can export the database and put it on a new server, which you can then shop for and price according to your new needs. It's relatively easy to transfer the data from one server to another ("relatively" meaning, it can be done, it's not too difficult for someone technically inclined, though if you were yourself trying to do it, you might have to ask for someone on here to help you). --98.217.14.211 (talk) 23:00, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

AJAX vs. jQuery?
Can someone explain to me the different between AJAX and jQuery? Like dumb it down to Homer Simpson level. I'm seeing a lot of interactive effects (like menu accordions, scrolling pages, shadowboxes and slideshows) that are jQuery. I thought you needed to use AJAX to acheive those type of modern web 2.0 effects. I've read both Wikipedia entries, but they are too technical to wrap my mind around. --70.167.58.6 (talk) 21:01, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * From what I know, AJAX is a technology that allows you to pull information without reloading the whole page, and jQuery is a Scripting Library that has pre-written functions which use AJAX. PrinzPH (talk) 22:06, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * jQuery is a library that aims to make programming on web pages with Javascript easier (and, in my experience, succeeds). It has various pieces of built-in functionality, primarily to do with manipulating the content currently shown on screen, but also acts as a framework to build more complex functionality - it sometimes feels a bit like a language in its own right.
 * AJAX is a technology for pulling data from multiple sources onto one page while you're viewing it, such as to dynamically replace part of a page based on user input, giving the page a more "desktop-like" feel. jQuery has built-in functions for performing basic AJAX operations.
 * No AJAX is needed to create the visual effects themselves, if all the content for the slideshow, lightbox, menu, etc is already on the page when it loads (even if it's not visible). For that matter, neither is jQuery, or any other library - they simply offer additional abstraction making the effects easier to program. - IMSoP (talk) 00:10, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Code in 'included' ASP Files
Hi All,

Was playing around with ASP, and came upon a slight problem:

Say I have 2 files, index.asp and something-to-include.inc

In index.asp I have

and in something-to-include.inc i have:

My problem is that the index.asp page doesn't seem to evaluate the code in the inc file, leaving just ...data="flash/header_v8.swf?">

I know that code works when I hard-code the contents of the inc file into the ASP file, how do i get it to work from an #include call?

Thanks in advance! PrinzPH (talk) 20:20, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Almost forgot, I NEED to be able to declare 'activeButton' from the main ASP/calling page (improvising on a template thingy). PrinzPH (talk) 20:23, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * In the .inc file, <% button(activeButton) %> should be <% =button(activeButton) %>. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 10:19, 18 September 2009 (UTC)


 * NICE! Thanks Andrew! PrinzPH (talk) 21:32, 18 September 2009 (UTC)