Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2009 September 9

= September 9 =

help me make my keyboard quiet please?
I live in a dorm and sometimes stay up late. I worry that my typing might bother my room mate. Is there a way to make my keyboard quieter without buying a new keyboard? (eg: would sticking paper between the keys soften the impact of the key on the back of the keyboard?)

I googled this and all i got were keyboards to buy and one ps3 forum that told the person asking my question to just buy a keyboard!

Any thoughts would be great! Thanks!

137.81.113.21 (talk) 06:03, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't know about modifying your keyboard (I guess it depends on how the keyboard works), but there are a couple of free alternative ways to type. Windows has an On-Screen Keyboard included, which you can set up so that leaving the mouse over a button for a specified time will "press the key", and I'd be surprised if OSX and Linux didn't have something similar. There's also a free program called Dasher with which you can "type" by moving the mouse through a set of letters - it takes a bit of getting used to, but with a little practice you can get good speeds. Either of these would be almost silent. AJHW (talk) 10:56, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I would also suggest to just buy a keyboard. If you have a thrift store in the area, you can probably get one for less than $5. The noise of a keyboard is caused by the mechanical switches under each key, and there's not much you can do about those. Maybe you could take off all the keys and put a layer of foam down, with holes cut for the keys. Sounds like a lot of trouble when you could buy a cheap quieter keyboard. ;) Indeterminate (talk) 04:49, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Installing Minitab
I needed to learn this statistical software in order to ace an interview so i rosorted to install the demo version which had expired (30 days) no as i still have the exe file but when i initate the install process aftrer i have uninstalled the previous one it pops a message, a version of minitab was alredy installed ,please call the customer service to buy the real version, i can't afford it, what do i do now? anyone please help....


 * Im afraid theres not alot you can do. Im not an expert but companies are pretty good at making sure you cant use their stuff after the trial period. Im sure you can do it anyway, but its usually complicated and illegal! sorry! :)


 * Try finding a free/open source program thats similar? thats all i can think of.


 * 137.81.113.21 (talk) 07:32, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Disconnect from the Internet, set your system time back to when you still could install, then use a debugger or equivalent, eg strace, to see what files/other stuff the installer accesses and delete them (not blindly everything of course). It's nowhere near 100% guaranteed it will work even then. --194.197.235.240 (talk) 08:57, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Software to make image of contours from grid of data
What software, preferably freeware, can do this please? The data would be for regular x.y coordinates. Thanks 78.146.183.185 (talk) 09:29, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Gnuplot can do that. --Sean 16:17, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * So can GNU Octave: with the ContourScript extension (usually installed by default, I think). The image is graphically displayed with GnuPlot, but this method also gives you access to the contours data.  Nimur (talk) 17:41, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * You may also want to look into the GNU Data Language (GDL) at [], and in particular the CONTOUR routine. This is an open source clone of the popular IDL software developed and commercialized by ITT Visual Information Solutions [] Michel M Verstraete (talk) 21:11, 9 September 2009 (UTC).

Overlaying semi-transparantly on another image to make final image
I anticipate having an image of contour lines that I want to use with a map image to create a map-with-contours image. The contour line image would need to become semi-transparant so that the map image shows through. Also the images would have to be moved around and enlarged and reduced so that they register correctly. What software could I use for this please - preferably freeware? Thanks. 78.146.183.185 (talk) 09:35, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Inkscape. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 10:43, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Or GIMP. --Sean 16:19, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Archive request script
Would it be possible to write a script in php that could take the url of a webpage and download the complete page (.hmtl, images, css etc) onto the server where the script is hosted? The url would be entered via a submission form by the end user, they'd click submit and the page would be saved. Something like that. I'm absolutely clueless with php, so if anyone's feeling really kind I certainly wouldn't say no to someone writing the script for me ^_^ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.88.99 (talk) 16:16, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, but why use PHP for this? There are lots of server-archiving programs out there already. See e.g. HTTrack. If you wanted to do it with PHP, I'd recommend using a pre-developed spidering class library (like Snoopy), it will save you a lot of trouble. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 16:53, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I know, but I would like this script to enable someone viewing my site to enter a single url and have the script save it, server side —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.88.99 (talk) 17:23, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe you could shell out a call to wget -r. Note it is getting harder and harder to archive stuff as the user sees it, due to javascript/AJAX, flash, streaming media, etc. on the pages 70.90.174.101 (talk) 18:06, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Live Player
What is "Live Player"? An ad for it says "Watch over 1,000 TV channels for free on your PC". The FAQ on its website says it is "ad supported" and uses something called "Favorit Advertising Component". Is there a catch to this? The name reminds me of some common video player software, cannot quite remember the name - quickplayer perhaps? - that is too intrusive when used. I have been using something called Freez online tv - I laugh at the shameless hard selling of very overpriced rubbish on the shopping channels. 84.13.49.79 (talk) 16:58, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Realplayer was notoriously intrusive. My anti-viral software will not let me see the Live Player home page. Not sure what that tells us :) --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:33, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Are there any free programs which would do the same thing please? YouTuibe does not do "live" streaming video as far as I know. 89.242.155.121 (talk) 11:57, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I watch Justin.tv sometimes. Calling what they have "TV channels" might be a bit of a stretch, but it's live. There used to be some software that I used for a while where you could watch all sorts of weird stuff like ESPN China, semi-legally, for free, but it wasn't very reliable and I don't remember the name. Recury (talk) 17:00, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * There are a lot of P2P TV programmes, mostly from China which allow you to watch live TV. They usually aren't that reliable. Most commonly they're used for sporting programmes. There's a website which can help give channels on the live P2P TV programmes for specific events and which should also help you find and use the live P2P TV programmes, I won't mention it here but it should be easy to find with Google. In many jurisdictions you'd probably be infringing copyrights if you are using them particularly as they are P2P Nil Einne (talk) 19:36, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

This webpage lists a number of equivalent freewares: http://www.techsupportalert.com/best-free-online-tv-viewer.htm 92.24.114.172 (talk) 15:02, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Make a touch screen using a webcam.
I've seen some software that can use a projector and a webcam to make a makeshift touch screen... but that isn't feasible for me, since I don't have a projector. Is it possible to use a webcam to turn an ordinary LCD monitor into a makeshift touch screen?  Until It Sleeps  alternate   17:05, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't think it'd work very well - crappy VGA webcams like mine are low resolution, have slow refresh rate and quite a noticeable lag. If it's feasible I don't think it'd be a very pleasant experience. --antilivedT 02:15, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * ...and add to that, ordinary LCDs are probably not meant to be touched all the time. I imagine that would degrade them pretty quick. My understand is that most touch-screens have specialized coatings on them to reduce wear-and-tear. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 16:56, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Delete file - access denied windows XP
See title - probably familiar to those skilled in the craft..

Specifics - downloaded video file .mp4, using a downloading program - downloading terminated (using program - usually not a problem) - additional - file type not supported, attempted to play partial file using separate program - successful - probably this sequence of events cause the issue. Fixed using cmd.exe + task manager, terminated processes until cmd.exe allowed deletion - probably not a good way to do it.

My question is: is there a way to find out exactly what program still thinks it is using a file, and then to persuade it that it is not?83.100.250.79 (talk) 18:08, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * As far as I'm aware, the answer to that is 'no', but it's possible I'm wrong. A le_Jrb talk  18:36, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I find this link useful Unlocker by Cedrick Coulomb. Jan1nad (talk) 19:18, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll bear that in mind in the future.83.100.250.79 (talk) 21:06, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * There actually are ways to do that. SysInternals' Process Explorer has a function to search all open handles (including but not limited to open files). You can use it to close those handles too. --grawity 12:49, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Torrent problem
I am using uTorrent on Vista-64 Home Premium, over my home's wireless network. On my old laptop (Vista-32) I had no problems with torrents, especially after I set a static IP and had uTorrent port forwarded. Since I got my new laptop, I got through most of a torrent, but then after ten minutes or so (sometimes less), my whole internet connection goes down, and my network is set to local only. I have to disconnect and reconnect to connect to the internet again. Since that first torrent that worked, I have had to connect to the router with an ethernet cable if I want to download any torrent. When I am connected with the cable, I never get kicked like that. What is going on, and what can I do to fix it? Thanks &mdash;Akrabbimtalk 18:33, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * If you can connect your computer to the router directly, I'd have to ask why you are using wireless in the first place. Strong electromagnetic signals are damaging to health and should be avoided if possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.88.99 (talk) 22:02, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Tin foil hats are great as far as reducing damage to health is concerned. To the OP, I doubt that the router is the problem for you. Also, you do NOT need to have your port forwarded in order for uTorrent to work. I would assume it is a configuration issue somewhere. I have never tried uTorrent on wireless myself, (or on Windows Vista)so I cannot say anything for a fact ... Kushal (talk) 22:55, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * You imply that there is zero health risks from electromagnetic radiation. I suggest you read this and this —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.88.99 (talk) 23:33, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Those articles, incidentally, don't actually describe much if any actual health threat being found. On a scale of threats, your proximity to a local McDonald's is probably worse for you. Anyway, this has nothing to do with the OP's question. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 16:58, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you 82 for sidetracking my question (how can artificial EM radiation be any more harmful than light?). Kushal, what kind of configurations would it be? I have the exact same wireless settings as I did on my old computer, for all I can tell.  And the uTorrent website advises users to forward the port for best performance, and I have observed better connections with it forwarded (but the router etc. doesn't seem to be the problem).  I guess it rests with my wireless. &mdash;Akrabbimtalk 00:26, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Do forgive me for being concerned for your well being. Feel free to microwave your brain if you like.
 * I had one issue a couple years ago where my wireless would drop out whenever I tried to transfer a lot of data over an encrypted connection. I eventually figured out it was the drivers - I updated them and the problem went away. It's possible that the 64 bit drivers for your wifi card are just less stable than the 32 bit drivers you were using previously. You could try getting the most recent drivers, but aside from that, I dunno. hrm. Indeterminate (talk) 04:35, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I know Akrabbim might be angry at me for this but I will start with the obvious... Does resetting the power supply in the wireless router when your computer drops dead out of the network help? I know that my uncle has a Linksys that just dies every once in a while. All we needed to do was to press the yellow wi-fi soft button and it would flicker white for a couple of seconds and restart. (I know I am backtracking from my previous position but I want to make sure that we cover all our bases before going into 64-bit driver zone. There is little we can do if the 64-bit drivers are finicky and the lazy programmers have not bothered to write updates so far but let us stay optimistic for now.) Kushal (talk) 07:53, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * If I reset the router, I get reconnected when it comes back up, but then the connection drops out again if the torrent is still running. I am pretty sure that it is not the router though, because all the time that I am losing and gaining the connection, the rest of my family is happily connected without a problem.  I'll check the drivers, see what's up, Indeterminate. 11:46, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Blue area moving
I copy and paste a lot. When I move my mouse while holding down the button, with Explorer, sometimes the area that is blue changes in a way that I don't want it to. The text has turned blue, but that's misleading.

On one computer with Firefox, sometimes the text is gray when I've selected the text to copy, but when I do copy, that gray text didn't get copied. It should, of course, have been blue.

If it's doing that and I enter Ctrl-C, I get nothing when I enter Ctrl-V.

I'm trying to duplicate what happened so I can explain it, and I'm not having any luck.Vchimpanzee ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 19:30, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * In Firefox, selected text is highlighted in blue when Firefox is the active window, but highlighted in gray when another window is active. Try clicking on the Firefox button in the taskbar to activate Firefox, then see if the selected text highlight turns blue and the copy works correctly. --Bavi H (talk) 23:34, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * These color descriptions only apply to default color settings for certain operating systems. In general, though, most modern window-managers use a modal selection-mechanism (for all selection behavior, including copy/paste).  This means that "highlight" and "select" behavior depends on which window is active.  Nimur (talk) 00:21, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not the actual color so much as what it represents. I've been on some computers when it's gray when it works. I still haven't figured out how to explain my problem.Vchimpanzee ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 14:17, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Success! I experienced the phenomenon. I was not holding the mouse button down at the time, but somehow part of a box like this was blue, and as I moved the mouse the part that was blue changed. That's not really the situation I was experiencing, but however it usually happens, that's what it's like.Vchimpanzee ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 22:35, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Boolean addition/subtraction in C++
As some have guessed in emails sent to me... I have been posting questions here from my class. My intention is to allow the class to get answers from many intelligent people rather just my answer. If this offends anyone, I will stop doing it.

In C++, there is a bool type that can only hold the value 0 or 1. By rule, any integer besides 0 becomes 1 when represented as a bool. Therefore, bool x=1+1; will result in x=1. Does this mean that if I have three boolean variables (x=1, y=1, and z=1) and add them together, it will do special boolean arithmetic? For example, (1+1)-1 in boolean will be 1-1 which becomes 0. However, when I put that in a C++ program I get 1, not 0. It seems like it is casting the bool to an int during all math and back to a bool when I grab the result. -- k a i n a w &trade; 21:05, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

(clarifying) If x, y, and z are all bool types and set to 1, (x+y)-z comes out as 1, not 0. -- k a i n a <font color='#0000ff'>w &trade; 21:25, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * small-ify since question clarified It's almost certainly what the compiler decides to do. It will evaluate the right hand side first (which is 1), and then apply that to the assignment (in your case to a boolean), this is all almost certainly because despite being binary logic machines, processors are set up to handle strings of binary..
 * In fact it makes sense not to treat (1+1) as a boolean, because "true+true" is meaningless, or undefined (does + mean or or and or concantentate ?)
 * If you try

boolean keith = 1+1 boolean george = keith-1
 * It will probably do what you want. It's certainly a very good idea to test this stuff out (avoids being caught out later on with mysterious bugs") Similar things to try is to see if the compiler allows int chris="a", or char mike=89 . Many do.
 * I've no idea if the compiler has infered an integer type because of the "+" sign, but would guess that's the case.
 * Also note that 1 (or 0) isn't a boolean value, "true" and "false" are, of course many compilers make no distinction, some will even swap the representations round.
 * Far better to write somrthing, like "bool susan = (true AND true) AND false", or whatever the logical meaning you had in mind was.83.100.250.79 (talk) 21:17, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but this and your followup below are incorrect. It is not undefined behavior to do math on bools: section [expr.9] of the 2003 standard ("usual arithmetic conversions") says, "operands of type bool, wchar_t, or an enumerated type are converted to some integral type".  That promotion makes bools into ints.  What's happening with "bool w = (x + y) - z; assert(w);" is that x and y get promoted to ints with value 1, added up to 2, then z gets promoted to an int with value 1, and subtracted from 2, leaving an int with value 1, which then gets converted back to bool and stored as true in w.  --Sean 21:37, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I meant undefined in a mathemtical sense - hence the necessity for the compiler specifications to decide how to treat with them.83.100.250.79 (talk) 21:47, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * respond to clarification If a,b,c are boolean (eg bool d=(a+b)-c ) then the basic error here is to try to add them, this will have to be typecase to an integer, or it will result in an error, since, as mentioned above "true plus true" has no defined meaning, since 'plus' is a numerical operator, not a boolean one.
 * As an aside I recommend the birch for your class, they learn much quicker and tend not to make as many simple mistakes, in my experience..83.100.250.79 (talk) 21:34, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * d=(a XOR b) XOR (a XOR c) might be an answer here, depending on what was originally intended, it might even be faster.83.100.250.79 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:00, 9 September 2009 (UTC).
 * or (a OR b) XOR c for the intended but unobtained result.83.100.250.79 (talk) 22:10, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * You'd probably want an AND 1, after these results to truncate. 83.100.250.79 (talk) 22:13, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure this is clear from the thread so far, so let me reiterate: the C and C++ standards require all compilers to convert booleans to an integer type before doing arithmetic. It's not something that some compilers decide to do, it's something that you can rely on all of them doing—not that there's much use for it in this case. Likewise, <tt>int chris='a'</tt> and <tt>char mike=89</tt> will work on all compilers, not just some. -- BenRG (talk) 14:05, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Not much to add here, except that example given above, <tt>int chris = "a";</tt> is always ill-formed. There is no standard conversion sequence from "array of const char" to int. If <tt>int chris = 'a';</tt> was intended, it should work as expected. <span style="font-family:monospace, monospace;">decltype (talk) 12:48, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Replacing a macbook hard drive
Is it possible to remove the T screw that is on the hard disk sleeve without a T screwdriver? If not, where would I find a screwdriver of that particular dimension? I think the 2006 Intel Macbook takes a T-2 but I am not entirely sure. Could you help me find the cheapest way to replace the drive? Thank you... Kushal (talk) 22:47, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Did you mean Torx ? (you can file down a flat head screwdriver if you want) - but torx screw sets, including the security type are soo cheap - somewhere like http://www.conrad.com/ will have them, try your local hardware store - the bits are cheapest - they are literally £2 for 50 different types. eg []search term = "screwdriver bit sets" 83.100.250.79 (talk) 22:57, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I have been able to work them off in the past using a pair of needle-nose pliers (to get past their initial tightness) and then just my fingers. It's probably a better idea to get a torx one... though I was never patient enough to do that. It can be done, but it takes some work. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 23:53, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the help guys. I guess I could check at Walmart. The problem is that I read on some website that it is a T2 and I don't see T2 in those lists. T6 seems to be the smallest that these sets contain... I am tempted to try the pliers ... Kushal (talk) 07:23, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * The only downside to the plies is you end up stripping the paint from them. I don't think that makes a whole lot of difference, though (it hasn't in my case, anyway, some years later). --98.217.14.211 (talk) 12:46, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I have a nice set of the small size Torx drivers in a factor like jewelers screwdrivers. Picked them up at a local hardware store. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 13:25, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Why not try searching for "torx t2" in the US the price seems to be ~$1083.100.250.79 (talk) 13:28, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * The driver you'll need on the macbook hard drive screws is a T8 or T9 iirc. If you get a set that has as many as bits as you can find, one of them will work, and it's a fairly standard bit too.Caltsar (talk) 17:29, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * That makes a lot of sense. the T20/T15 was too big but I could not find a T2 online. ... :( sadly, the lutz 13 in one is the only thing that I have http://www.flickr.com/photos/hadakushal/3873472539/ . It would be really sweet if I could find a bit that works on it. :) I think I should stay away from anything magnetic as the bolt seems to be plastic anyways and the hard disk may notlike magnetic tips ... any ideas? Kushal (talk) 02:19, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Buy a T8 and a T9 then - which puts you back in 2$ territory.83.100.250.79 (talk) 12:42, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, 83. I guess that is the best thing to do. My only complaint is that it will be one more piece of clutter that I will not use for anything else... oh well, I am complaining over a non-issue now. It would be great to hear from someone who has replaced a macbook hard disk before. :) Kushal (talk) 02:26, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Mac v. PC
So, I have a HP G60t-200, and I like it pretty well. However, I have the opportunity to get a new laptop soon, so I thought I would ask for some input. I've heard several things about macs, some of which are probably myth, so please dispel any misconceptions, and help me out. I checked out the Apple site and I think I'm leaning toward the MacBook Pro 15" if I go Mac. Some things I've heard:
 * Macs are more physically durable
 * Macs have better built-in protection from viruses
 * Macs generally outperform PC in computing
 * Macs are NOT as easily compatible when it comes to presentations and word documents

Also, what's the situation with the "unmoving" hard drives or whatever. Pros? Cons? Have at it. Hubydane (talk) 23:42, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I have recently been through this road too and I'll write up some of my thoughts at the time. The MacBook Pros are made of out a single block of aluminium so yes they are quite durable - the reason that didn't sway me too much though is that what good is a durable case when the insides will be outdated in 3-4 years? My laptop is almost 1000 NZD cheaper than the equivalent MacBook - and all the difference I'll get is the a working piece of junk instead of a broken piece of junk after say 5 years, so the Apple tax wasn't worth it for me. Mac OS X is more secure than Windows, but as long as you don't be stupid and have antivirus it's quite rare to catch a virus (this point was irrelevant to me since I'm going to put Ubuntu on it either way). Outperform PC? No. Just No. Compatibility? Microsoft makes Office for Mac so it should work quite well, but there probably will be some tiny incompatibilities that will only affect 1% of the users. The unmoving hard drive you referred to is SSD, which is faster, less sensitive from shock, but still outrageously expensive even if you buy a small one (especially if you get it from Apple). Unless money's no object for you you're probably better off saving the difference. --antilivedT 02:11, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Antilived seems to have covered most stuff but i'd just add
 * I have 2 Macs (a maybe 7 year old iBook and a Macbook that's a couple of years old). Both boot up and run pretty much exactly the same as they always have. They have not slowly ground to halt like many PCs my family and friends own. I know (because I have a PC too) that a lot of the grinding-to-a-haltness is not the PCs fault, but the fault of the end-user, but it does seem to be a general thing that PCs grind to a halt more quickly than Apples do (I suspect due to the sheer volume of malware/software that gets installed and never fully gets removed). 194.221.133.226 (talk) 08:26, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * 1) Macs are LESS secure than PCs. I don't know about Leopard, but Tiger Macs came with their firewalls turned off. They all have web servers pre-installed (Apache). They come with the least-secure web browser on the Internet (Safari). There's an annual "hacking" competition called PWN 2 OWN. Macs have been the first to be taken over the last few years because of Safari. I find it strange that people see Windows as insecure. One of the biggest complaints about Windows Vista is that it is too secure! You need to read up on Windows Vista, Windows XP Service Pack 2, and the large number of security innovations they have brought. Windows Vista was a complete rewrite of Windows XP to improve security. Microsoft releases security patches every week for Windows. And most of the "vulnerabilities" they find were discovered by employees at Microsoft--not criminals. By contrast, Apple took many months to patch the vulnerabilities discovered at PWN 2 OWN. Microsoft does a much better job than Apple at securing their operating systems.
 * 2) I don't know what you mean by "Macs generally outperform PC in computing" but Macs have a lot of eye-candy and services that run automatically. I've seen speed comparisons between Mac OS X and Windows XP, where Windows XP greatly outperformed Mac OS X in terms of speed.
 * 3) In response to your first point, Apple is both a computer manufacturer and a software maker. Microsoft just makes the software. So, Apples are durable, but so are Sonys, and so are Toshibas. If you buy a counterfeit Chinese netbook with Windows installed, you're technically also buying a PC, so it's hard to generalize. I could probably write a book comparing Macs and "PCs," but suffice to say that I think they're over-priced and OS X is not nearly as sophisticated as Windows 7.--24.9.113.111 (talk) 09:12, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Adding to the comments above, whether Macs or PCs are more secure depends greatly on the behaviour of the user, it's hard to make a blanket statement "Macs are more/less secure than PCs". The same goes for robustness, there are very solid PCs and there are PCs that will fall apart when you look at them wrong, it's hard to generalise, although you mostly get what you pay for. As, for Macs, the software and hardware is built by a single company, they tend to be more tightly integrated, but at the cost of less choice in software. I should also note that, most software (games are particularly bad at this) tends to get written for PCs, but thanks to Boot Camp and Parallels, Macs can (mostly) run it as well. &mdash; QuantumEleven 09:57, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * It's worth noting that whether a computer is theoretically more secure (e.g. can hold up under sustained attack by full-time hackers) or practically has less security issues is a different thing. The reason Mac users don't worry about viruses, spyware, or other malware, is not because the OS is so rigorous, but because nobody really bothers making malware for the Mac. If the market share gets large enough, this will certainly change. But at the moment, a Mac user doesn't even generally need to run anti-virus to stay uninfected, no matter what kinds of crazy programs they download. (Has there ever been a case of a Mac user with spyware they couldn't get rid of on the Ref Desk? I see at least one PC case now.) When I recommend to my parents that they get Macs, it's not because I have some unending faith in the strength of Macs, it's because on a day to day level, if they have Windows, they will quickly lose the ability to use their computer (because they are not so hot at avoiding spyware, because they are old), but if they have a Mac, it will still be fine for the next few years. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 14:10, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Whether you choose to get a Mac or a PC, you will need to know which one is right for you. Off the bat, I'm going to say that when buying a PC right now, it will be easiest for you to wait until Windows 7 comes out in roughly a month, so you don't have to deal with claiming the upgrade and installing it.  That said, all the "unibody" mac laptops are very durable compared to most PC laptops.  However, Dell and many companies also offer laptops with comparible strength, but the price will be similar to a Mac.  Mac OS X is in fact more secure against viruses due to the fact that it's built like many unix operating systems where everything is a file, and to oversimplify what this means, things can't run unless you tell them to.  This doesn't mean that OS X is immune from viruses, but it means that all attempts at malware so far are those that require you to enter an admin password and manually install (usually bundled with a pirated installer).  This doesn't have a lot to do with marketshare, but with the default security settings that OS X ships with.  These settings are much better with the newer OS versions than those that came with Tiger.  As far as Microsoft Office is concerned, almost complete compatibility is available, and you should be able to open almost any office document you want.  I know many people who prefer Office for Mac 2008 over the latest Windows Office suite.  I personally get a lot of Publisher documents and it is very difficult to open these on a Mac, but I find that to be the exception to the rule. If you do a lot of gaming, all of the above if moot, and you will want a Windows computer unless you wish to use boot camp.  Modern Macs have pretty good graphics, and can run games quite well when you boot into windows, but they are not high end gaming machines by any means.  A Mac laptop will cost you about the same as a comparable Windows laptop (taking into account build quality and features like multitouch), so the ultimate factor in deciding whether or not you want a Mac laptop is if you want t run OS X or not.  GO to an Apple store and play around to see if you like it.  If you don't, go and search for an appropriate Windows machine Caltsar (talk) 17:45, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't think multitouch costs too much extra money - my friend's old Toshiba laptop (came out before unibody MacBooks) has two-finger scrolling out of the box on newer Ubuntu releases, and probably on Windows too with the appropriate driver. --antilivedT 12:05, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The hardware doesn't cost too much, but it's one of those features that is marked up on all laptops. Also keep in mind that most laptops can't support more than two fingers.  Most of the extra cost on macbooks is probably in the case for the current generationCaltsar (talk) 15:13, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Web emails
How come on most web emails, there's no way to preview your mail besides saving it as a draft then sending it? I find it quite annoying, and I would've thought that a preview function would be pretty basic.

Also, is there anyway to embed (not attach) images on Yahoo mail? Thanks. 24.6.46.106 (talk) 23:32, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Because e-mails are usually WYSIWYG. There's not need for a preview when it's just a body of text. Darrenhusted (talk) 23:37, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Back up my computer
My keyboard messed up, so I need to send my computer back. I need to -completely- back up -everything- from my computer--files, applications, bookmarks, pictures, etc.-- before sending it off. So 2 questions. 1) How do I find out how much space (and therefore how big a flash drive) I need to perform this total backup? 2) How do I perform this total backup? (I'm using Vista x64 on an HP G60t-200)

Thanks Hubydane (talk) 23:41, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Why don't you just replace your keyboard? <font style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:15px;"> Intelligent  sium  00:46, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm assuming it's a portable which does not invite casual tinkering. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:54, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Right click on your hard drive icon and select properties, and that will tell you how much space is being used by all your files. Check out this website for information on free hard drive imaging software, which would be the easiest way to back up your entire hard drive, files, applications, settings, and all. &mdash;Akrabbimtalk 01:12, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * If this is a warranty repair, you should send them as little hardware as possible. If the hard drive isn't part of the problem, remove it. You can remove the hard drive from any laptop without voiding the warranty. On my laptop the keyboard is also easy to remove, but I don't know whether that voids the warranty. Call them and ask; you might save a lot of money on shipping. -- BenRG (talk) 11:11, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * This is a warranty repair, so I might take out the hard drive, but to check the space needed... I opened my computer (I'm running the latest version of vista x64) and held my mouse over the "Recovery" icon, and it said something along the lines of 1.95 free of 12.2 available. Is this what I need? Do I need my Local Disk (C: drive?)? Hubydane (talk) 01:09, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * If you are running vista then if you just click the "new start button" and then click on computer you should be able to see a "Blue Bar" underneath the hard drive, or C drive that you wanna check, and it will tell you something like this... "x GB free of X GB" meaning you have x number of GB free out of x number of GB. For me it's like "144 GB free of 1000 GB". To answer your second question you can use an external hard drive for your back up. If you have one then that would be easiest. If you don't have one i'm sure that you can get one from walmart or best buy. also check out

--Jdswebservice (talk) 16:35, 15 September 2009 (UTC)