Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2010 January 7

= January 7 =

Xinhua's website unsafe?
I just went to a page on xinhuanet.com, and my Norton virus protection said the page is extremely infested with viruses. It reported the site as being infected with adware.lebar and Bloodhound.Exploit.281. Is my virus protection too strict? Woogee (talk) 02:16, 7 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Probably accurate. This place is crawling with viruses (virii?). You're not going to find any news worth reading there anyway. 218.25.32.210 (talk) 03:09, 7 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Follow-up question out of curiosity: in general, should I, browsing from Linux, we worried in this case? I hadn't entered the site yet, nor do I really wish to. --Ouro (blah blah) 05:07, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Probably not. There aren't too many *nix based viruses out there in the wild (if any at all). - Akamad (talk) 10:27, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * See the Linux malware article for more on that. Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:43, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Gonna have to. Thanks! --Ouro (blah blah) 21:16, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

SQL woes
Hi All,

With some previous help from you (nearly six months ago), I have been using this query quite satisfactorily:

which yields a table looking like this:

Now, there is a field which contains the order amount: OrderAmount, I was wondering how I could use the SUM function in such a way that I get a table similar to this:

the ordertotal is meant to represent the sum of all the orders placed by the customer (as distinguished by the customer id). I tried:

but the computer slapped me with a trout :( PrinzPH (talk) 02:34, 7 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Try removing the single quotes from around "NumberOfOrders" (both occurances) and "orderTotal". If you need further assistance, please identify the database you are using (MySQL, Microsoft SQL Server, etc.) plus the actual error message.  I can't establish a telepathic link with your trout from this far away.  --  Tom N (tcncv) talk/contrib 07:47, 7 January 2010 (UTC)


 * For one, Instead of "Order by 'NumberOfOrders' desc" (your alias for the count field) use 'Order by Count(*) desc'. You've aliased the field in the Select clause, but standard SQL you can not then reference that alias in the same query, such as in the Order_by or Where clause.  I'm thinking I've ran across one or two DBMS's that did allow this, but it's not standard across databases, and probably bad form to rely on.
 * I personally agree with the suggestion above to remove the quotes, but they should generally be ok as the column aliases.Cander0000 (talk) 01:18, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Gaming experience on different platforms: comparable?
For FPS games that are published on multiple platforms (PS3, Xbox 360, Wii, PC), is the gaming experience largely comparable on the different platforms, or is it very different because of the differences in CPU & graphics capabilities? --98.114.98.169 (talk) 04:58, 7 January 2010 (UTC)


 * It can be very different. I play games both on PS3 and PC and I have a very powerful PC so I can get the graphics up much higher then the ps3. But the main difference is that mouse and keyboard controls are MUCH more precise then a console controller and for that reason, FPS games are "dumbed down" on consoles. If you played the console version on a PC it would be VERY easy and if you played the PC version on a console, it would be very hard. I think PS3 and XBOX have small differences but not very noticeable. Eeven tho PS3 is supposedly "more powerful" hardware, a lot of games like GTA4 are actually developed on the XBOX, partly I think because it's much easier to port to PC from there, so the PS3 version is usually the "port" rather then the other way around which makes it not as smooth as a game developed on the ps3 to begin with. But it doesn't make much of a difference unless you study both version very closely side by side. Wii is not in the same league, I don't think there is a FPS that has been released on the Wii which is also on another platform. Most games that ALSO come out on the wii have a special "wii version" which is actually different to the others.. Vespine (talk) 05:54, 7 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree with Vespine's remarks, on the whole, though "ease of porting to the PC" is certainly not the reason that the 360 is the lead platform for most video game development. Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:41, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Is it because sony is such a bitch to develop for? :) That would be my 2nd guess... Vespine (talk) 21:30, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You're both right. The PS-3 is a bitch to develop for BECAUSE ease of porting to/from the PC is so tough. SteveBaker (talk) 00:57, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

As a game developer who has worked on games for all of those platforms, I can tell you this much: The Wii is by far the weakest machine from a performance perspective - if it were not for the fancy controllers and the "casual gamer" following, it would have been a laughable flop. A modern PC with a decent nVidia or ATI graphics chip/card is by far the best. Any PC that's more than a couple of years old is probably on par with the Xbox and PC-3. A PC with an Intel motherboard graphics chip is basically down there with the Wii in terms of graphics performance. The Xbox360 and the PS-3 are roughly equal in hardware performance.

BUT there is a huge, huge problem with the PS-3. While it is theoretically an immensely powerful machine - it's flat out WEIRD. It's a total pain in the butt to develop for. Both the Wii and the Xbox are sufficiently close to a PC (in architectural terms) that you can easily write almost identical code to run on all three. But if you try to run this kind of very straightforward code on the PS-3, it runs like a dog. To get the best performance on the PS-3 you have to find a way to run some of your code on the "SPU" processors (which are WEIRD) and to only use the back half of the GPU because the front half is horribly slow. You also have to be really SUPER careful about what data you put in which memory blocks because although it has the same amount of RAM as the Xbox-360, it's split into two chunks with really slow mechanisms for copying between them. The code ends up looking nothing like a PC, Xbox or Wii.

Now - if you were developing a title exclusively for the PS-3, that would be ugly - but not fatal. You could make full use of all of these weird architectural widgets - optimize your code to the n'th degree and make a game that could probably be better even than the Xbox-360. But unless SONY are paying you a ton of up-front money to be a PS-3 exclusive, you've got to produce at least an Xbox and a PC version in order to amortise your development costs over a larger consumer base. Now, you have code that runs more or less identically on PC, Xbox and Wii - but requires immense amounts of additional software effort to make it run well on the PS-3. This is SUCH a major pain that most medium-sized software developers can't afford to do it. So corners are cut on the PS-3 side - graphics are lower quality, game levels are simpler, etc. So if we're honest and practical, the order is: Wii, PS-3, Xbox-360, PC.

However, if you are a large game developer - making something like Halo-3 or GTA-IV that's going to be a guaranteed hit - you can spend the up-front money to really push the PS-3 to it's limits. If you do that well - then perhaps the PS-3 and Xbox-360 swap places - but that's not much comfort to a PS-3 owner because there are probably only a couple of games a YEAR that are that finely tuned for the PS-3...everything else looks and plays better on the Xbox-360. SteveBaker (talk) 00:57, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Very good answer, apart from the fact halo never came out on PS3, I believe you are not correct about GTA4. There were more then a couple "side by side" comparisons of the PS3 and Xbox versions by seasoned review sites and the Xbox version was deemed slightly better by all the ones I saw, not by a big margin mind you. IIRC some of the draw distances were a bit better on Xbox and frame rates dropped a little more on the PS3 if there were more then a few explosions on the screen at once. This was put down to the fact that the game was still developed on xbox and ported to PS3, even though they did spend a lot of effort to optimise it.. I'm not a xbox fanboy btw, I only have a PS3 and thought GTA4 on it was just fine. The PC version which had a few more months to be developed trumped them both when it came out, that is if your PC could run it on the highest settings. So I think it is pretty much only the PS3 exclusives which get the special sony treatment, ala the god of war and uncharted games. Vespine (talk) 03:27, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Qnective
I was browsing for information regarding the telecommunication industry in Switzerland and found out that the company Qnective is not listed in your database. Can somebody create a description for it? Thanks a lot! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Telecomander (talk • contribs) 08:03, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I was unable to find much coverage of the company in reliable sources, which may be an indication that it is not notable, and therefore not eligible for inclusion in Wikipedia. I only did a cursory search, though. decltype (talk) 08:54, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Zip file properties
Is there a way to determine what compression method was used on an encrypted zip file? I have a known file that is in the encrypted file, and I'm trying to do a plaintext attack, but I can't get the archive to match. 70.162.3.214 (talk) 10:00, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The latest version of 7zip will detect the type of encryption on a zip file... You'd, of course, have to have the right credentials/password to then open it.Cander0000 (talk) 01:21, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Updating hardware under Ubuntu
I have an old computer that has Windows 2000 installed. I would like to replace this with Ubuntu, add a printer, instal an additional old hard-drive, and probably see if I can find some extra memory for it from eBay. Would there be any advantage in delaying switching to Ubuntu and making the hardware changes under Windows 2000, or can Ubuntu cope perfectly well with hardware changes like this please? Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.234.221 (talk) 14:26, 7 January 2010 (UTC)


 * It can, feel free to switch. --91.145.73.6 (talk) 14:45, 7 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Caution: Feel free to switch if you're already familiar with GNU/Linux.  If you are not &mdash; and you are probably not, based on the queston above &mdash; then I would try configuring this under Windows 2000, and if you're struggling and having problems, then try switching operating systems to see if you can come up with a better result.  Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:38, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Where to attach USB wires?
I have an old computer with a USB socket at the front. Attached to this socket is several inches of white cable. The free end of the cable does not attach to anything, it has been cut without any socket being attached, just cut cable. I would like to get the USB socket working. What and where should I attach the cable to? There are a few wires inside the cable. The other USB sockets at the rear do work. 78.146.234.221 (talk) 14:36, 7 January 2010 (UTC)


 * This diagram from the USB article (click HERE) shows the connections at the front panel. The one on the left is the one you want. If you have the manual for the motherboard it will likely show the connections at that end. It should also be marked on the motherboard near the connector, somethin like:+ D1 D2 —. This HERE shows the colour codes used. The motherboard connector needed will be similar to those used for connecting the analog audio from DVD/CD drives to the motherboard sound input. If you have a spare one of those and can solder, you could cut the audio cable and splice it onto the "white cable" you have attached to the front panel. I have never done this, but theoretically it should work.--220.101.28.25 (talk) 17:17, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Wi-Fi question
My home wireless connection keeps perplexing me. On some (rare) days, it works flawlessly&mdash;everything connects as it should and works without a hitch. On other days, the wireless network does not even show up in the list of available networks, and on some other days it does show as "unavailable" (can't connect at all), and on some other days still it cycles through available/unavailable/visible/invisible as the list of networks is updated.

The setup includes Asus WL-500g Premium v2 router (it's a g-router with dd-wrt firmware), to which a Win7 desktop is connected (with a wire). Three wireless devices on the network include a WinXP laptop (g), a PocketPC with WinMobile6 (b), and a Samsung BD-player (set to g). There are never ever any problems with the desktop being able to connect; all problems are limited to the wireless side. When the wireless is functioning OK, all three devices are able to connect, and when there are problems, they affect all three devices at the same time, which means that the problem is most likely with the network setup itself.

What's more interesting, that ever since my old Linksys router died on me six months or so ago, the Asus router is actually the third one that experiences this problem. I also tried another Linksys and a Netgear, and they all had the same problem (with different levels of severity). At this point I am, frankly, at a loss as to what the problem might be.

The channel of the router is set to Auto. Most of my neighbors use Channels 1 or 6, but switching to channel 11 on my router did not help one bit. If anyone has any other suggestions, I'd most certainly appreciate the advice. There does not seem to be any rhyme or reason to these outages, and the router setup screens never show anything that might hint at a problem of any sort. Help?—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 15:14, January 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Frustrating, isn't it. This happens to me, sometimes, too.  Do you really experience the same problems with connection (or inability to see the network at all) when you move the computer or router so they are closer?  Or so there's no wall between the two?  Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:35, 7 January 2010 (UTC)


 * It doesn't seem to matter how close they are. The laptop is usually just a couple of feet away from the antenna.  The BD-player is all the way downstairs, but when the network works, it doesn't matter one bit.  I haven't tried moving the actual router, though; will most certainly give it a try.  Any other ideas?—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 17:49, January 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Usually unplugging the wifi router and waiting 30 seconds and replugging it back in solves it.Accdude92 (talk to me!) (sign) 17:57, 7 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Should've mentioned it doesn't help. If the network doesn't show up, it doesn't show up no matter how much unplugging and waiting is done.  When it shows up eventually, it's most certainly not because due to something I did&mdash;it's unpredictable and varies from day to day.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 18:08, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

Be sure that when you change the router's channel, you also reconfigure the adapter's channel as well. You may want to try 1, 6, and 11 (there's no overlap between those three). Although I am starting to think at this point electromagnetic interference is not your problem. I would guess it is more likely a settings issue. Again, remember whatever changes you make to your router must also match your network adapter's settings on each computer (where applicable). The fact that it's intermittent is what really throws me though. Usually you either get a connection or you don't and the results are consistent, which on the other hand does seem to indicate interference. But like I said, more information on your wireless settings may help here. I've also found in my experience that 802.11b is more stable than 802.11g, so you may want to attempt to downgrade your signal to b and give that a go if you can afford the reduced range and bandwidth (I run b myself, but my connection doesn't come close to capping the 11mbps limit). At the very least I think it is worth it to do so as an attempt to troubleshoot the problem. I noted that one of your adapters is transmitting as b and I've had some problems with mixing standards before. Good luck! -Amordea (talk) 22:45, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You may have a bad router...get another.Accdude92 (talk to me!) (sign) 18:10, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Fifth one???!!! No way! :)—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 18:23, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Do all the routers have DD-WRT? I can't think of many common links with the problem.  I believe some cordless phones are known to interfere with wireless signals and it's possible your choice of configuration for wireless may be causing problems.  If you can find a common link, that's probably where the problem is. 206.131.39.6 (talk) 18:29, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I actually replaced the router's firmware with dd-wrt myself (hoping it would help solve this problem, which also occurred with the native firmware). You might be on the right track with the cordless phones tip, though.  Come to think of it, my wi-fi problems started around the time I bought a new landline phone (which has an additional cordless handset).  Will definitely unplug it tonight and see if that could be the culprit.  Thanks for the tip!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 18:39, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * The cordless phone is probably the issue. Most modern cordless phones I've seen operate on the 2.4Ghz band which interferes with 802.11b/g operating on the same frequency. If you can find a 900mhz cordless phone, this may fix the issue. The Electromagnetic interference at 2.4 GHz article also lists some other devices that may be interfering with your wireless.206.131.39.6 (talk) 19:19, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It depends where you live I think. Here in NZ, and I believe in much of Europe and possibly Malaysia too (although cordless phones seem relatively rare there anyway), most cordless phones are either 1.8ghz (in particular DECT) or 5.8ghz. E.g. most of the phones there are 1.8ghz (some DECT, some not), most specify it either in the short or long description, some just say DECT without specifying it's safe to assume they're 1.8ghz (including XDECT ). Some say DECT 6.0, which may or may not be the US DECT which is 1.9ghz. Some are 5.8ghz. I counted 2 2.4ghz (whcih are the same just with extra phones) and 4 (again mostly the same just different phones) which are SCR which evidentally is 2.4ghz, i.e. 6 out of ~35 (some aren't cordless but I was lazy to count). DECT was only developed for the U.S. late in 2005 when the 1.9ghz frequency was opened up, so it's not surprising that this is a lot rarer in the U.S. and as the OP is I think a (Russian) American I didn't raise this earlier and your answer is relevant to him. But since the issue of most phones being 2.4ghz was raised I felt it helpful to clarify. As you mentioned, it may be worth considering other devices as well particularly Bluetooth and wireless peripherals and perhaps microwaves too even if these are generally designed to reduce interference. Best bet, turn off or disconnect the receiver and device for any 2.4ghz gadget and see how it works. Alternatively you could upgrade to 802.11n devices which support 5.8ghz in addition to 2.4ghz. Worst case scenario, perhaps it's someone else causing problems for you. Nil Einne (talk) 11:06, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The cordless phone I have is indeed a 2.4 GHz one. However, I unplugged the base yesterday and switched the cordless headset off, but that did not alleviate the problem at all.  The network kept rapidly switching status from "available" to "unavailable" and back, and even when it was "available", I still couldn't connect.  If the phone was a part of the problem, it seems to have been only a part of it.  There are no other devices in the house I can think of (the microwave is quite far on the ground floor, and I don't have anything with Bluetooth).  Upgrading to n won't really help because the most important devices I have (laptop and pocketPC) are g and b.  I'm really, really bummed at this point...—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 14:44, January 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Does it work if you plug a computer into it with an ethernet cable? TastyCakes (talk) 18:31, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, like I said above, there are never any problems if a computer is plugged with an Ethernet cable.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 18:39, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's a tough one. I'm not quite sure we have enough information to make a fully educated guess on this one.
 * I had full intention to play with the router setting over the weekend, but the damn thing started working on Friday evening and is still going on strong as of this Monday morning (nothing has changed in my house whatsoever). I start leaning to the theory that neither the settings, nor anything in my house are at fault, but probably some outside interference is to blame.  Any ideas as to what that might be?  I remember reading in the past about some horrible pre-n multi-channel router that bogged down all channels in the area to increase speed; I wonder if one of my neighbors purchased something like that...  It's either that or gremlins, from where I stand...—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 16:17, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

exe extracting
On Windows, when you run some .exe files they load files into C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Local\Temp\RarSFX0\ and then run an .exe from there. What packaging method is used to store all the program files into one .exe, then extract them to the temp directory? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.88.124 (talk) 16:45, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * RAR. It has an option to create a self-extracting archive.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 16:47, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

Cool, thanks
 * See Comparison of file archivers for a list of archivers that have self-extraction. --Spoon! (talk) 21:33, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

On a remote, hosted website: How do I maintain a file that contains the ip address of my local router?
I have a hosted website, which I can log into using ssh and ftp (currently Debian 5.0.3, with php and mysql). In addition, I have a linux server in my home (also Debian 5.0.3), that's connected to a router, which is assigned an IP address from my ISP. The IP address, although fairly stable, changes occasionally. I want to run a cron job on my local server (and the remote server, if necessary), that lets the remote server "know" what IP address my local router is currently assigned. What's the easiest way to achieve this? By letting the remote server "know" my local router's IP address, I mean for example keeping an updated text file on the remote server that contains only the IP address.

The local cron job can log into the remote server. I believe I'm also allowed to run cron jobs on the remote server (I haven't actually tried it, but crontab -e works as expected, opening a text editor). I can do some bash or C/C++ or php programming if necessary, but pointers to code examples would be nice. Grateful for any advice, or pointers to articles if we have one that addresses the question. Thanks. --NorwegianBluetalk 19:48, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know what your underlying problem is, but most that I can imagine can be much better solved via DynDNS and use of a domain name instead of the IP address. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 19:52, 7 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Do this:
 * on the web server, run a CGI program (or equivalent, in whatever language you're comfortable with) that generates a web page the $REMOTE_ADDR (or whatever it's called in that language/framework) - so it'd just say "your IP is 123.45.67.89"
 * on your home machine, periodically wget that page and extract the IP address reported by the script. Then put a page (with ncftpput or scp) a simple page that shows the last IP retrieved and the date+time (so you can tell if the server or router has crashed).
 * There are tons of "what is my IP" services (meaning you can use them instead of writing the #1 script, above), but most ask that you not use them from scripts. The process above is generally better than parsing traceroute (as most routers seem to report their *internal* address) or screenscraping the router's own status page (which generally means you have to have the script login to the router). Personally I think routers should have an internal-only no-login status page which shows status and login condition (or a telnet or SOAP or whatever equivalent) but few do. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 20:08, 7 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I have a python script to do the latter, which I'll share privately with you if you email me. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 20:13, 7 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm not NorwegianBlue's confidant or anything, but I assume this is an attempt to be able to access his home PC from anywhere without having to get a static IP address. Comet Tuttle (talk) 20:38, 7 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, I assume the same. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 20:39, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You are both correct. Here's what I've got so far, based on Finlay's suggestion:


 * Which when run from a command line shell on the server produces the following output:

Content-type: text/html ---  ---
 * ... as expected, since $REMOTE:ADDR won't be defined. However, when I try to run the script over the web, I get:

Server error! The server encountered an internal error and was unable to complete your request. Error message: Premature end of script headers: myipaddress.cgi If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster. Error 500
 * (I haven't done much CGI scripting, so there may be a silly mistake in the script). Hmmm...? --NorwegianBluetalk 20:50, 7 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Lots of servers don't allow access to /bin/bash (or don't allow scripts to access it) making you use /bin/sh. Make sure the script is in a folder that allows scripting (often the /cgi subfolder of the document tree) and that it has its +x bit set. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 20:57, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Also the hosting provider probably makes the relevant log file (I think its error.log) available to you, which should have a clearer error message that "internal error"> -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 21:02, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

I've got it working now. This did the trick: (I don't do perl, but found a script that dumped a bunch of environment variables, and tweaked it to get what I wanted). Wget on the local machine returns the IP address and nothing more, and writing the data back to the server should be a piece of cake (will do that bit tomorrow, it's getting late here now). Thanks a lot! --NorwegianBluetalk 22:15, 7 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I would suggest using a free dynamic DNS service like DynDNS or No-IP to keep track of your home IP address (each of these services come with clients that automatically update your IP periodically; some routers also have update clients built-in). Then on the remote server, all it has to do is do an nslookup on your dynamic DNS hostname to know what your IP address is. --Spoon! (talk) 21:31, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * @Stephan Schulz & Spoon: Thanks for your suggestion. I wanted to see if I could manage to do this without the help of a second service provider, though, and I've got it working now. --NorwegianBluetalk 22:15, 7 January 2010 (UTC)


 * If you didn't want to do this with DyDNS you could write a script that could send your IP to any number of sources. Twitter is an obvious options. You could encrypt it too if you wanted. If you need help actually writing that script let us know. Pick some often accessible service (or two) that will tell you your IP, then pick a "posting" service, might be as simple as an email. Run it every few hours, or even better, store the old IP and only "send" the new IP when it changes. Shadowjams (talk) 04:41, 8 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks. As stated above, the perl script solved the problem. --NorwegianBluetalk 09:47, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Where to find a UK-english version of OpenOffice?
I cannot find this information at the OpenOffice site. Where can I download a version of OpenOffice with UK-english spelling please? Thanks 78.151.131.82 (talk) 20:31, 7 January 2010 (UTC)


 * here - the English (GB) ones. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 20:38, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. 78.151.131.82 (talk) 20:57, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

On further investigation, the single line of English GB for the different operating systems is only a "language pack" and eventually it stops installing and will not go any further. What is the procedure to follow to install GB english please? Since there must be far more users of British english than many other languages, I'm surprised there is not a dedicated British english version. 78.151.131.82 (talk) 21:29, 7 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Did you install the regular (US English) version first? Once that is installed, then install the GB English language pack.  For whatever reason, GB English is not released as a standalone installer, but as a "modification" to the US English version.  Nimur (talk) 21:35, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Windows Genuine Advantage Kit for Windows XP
Does anyone know anything about the Windows Genuine Advantage Kit for Windows XP offer? Microsoft says, "If you qualify for the complimentary offer, you will receive a Windows Genuine Advantage Kit for Windows XP in the mail within 4 to 6 weeks of your order. The Windows Genuine Advantage Kit contains a CD with a new 25-character Product Key." Is this offer for real or is there a hidden charge? I filled out the counterfeit report and made a copy of the receipt and uploaded it to Microsoft but did not get even an email acknowledgment much less a statement saying I qualified.

Has anyone sent a disk to Microsoft in the expectation of having it replaced and then Microsoft saying it did not qualify because you purchased the new disk from another party or some other BS reason?

What's the deal here? Is Microsoft genuine or not? 71.100.3.13 (talk) 23:10, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * My understanding is Microsoft does usually provide a copy and I don't think there's a hidden charge (at most a resonable charge for shopping) to people who are genuinely the victims of counterfeiting. It may take a while as MS investigates your report I guess. As I said, we're talking real counterfeiting here not run of the mill piracy which some people including MS like to call software counterfeiting even when it isn't, i.e. where you genuinely believed you were getting a real copy very likely with a product that looks like a genuine copy (e.g. a CD with the appropriate hologram, a product ID label ditto). An example would be you bought a computer from what seemed to be a legitimate shop in some part of the developed Western world paying an appropriate price, got the CD and product label and it all looks legit or you bought a Windows XP box from such a shop which again looks completely legit you're likely the victim of software counterfeiting. On the otherhand, if you downloaded a copy from some warez site or P2P or bought an obviously pirated copy from some shop in parts of Asia your unlikely to be a victim of genuine counterfeiting. I doubt buying it off a spammer would count either. For something like Ebay, I'm not sure. If it's a mass seller particularly in a developed Western country with a low piracy rate who clearly makes out his/her copies genuine, they may consider you a genuine victim. I'm not so sure if you either buy it from a fairly dubious seller who skirts the question and sells it for an outrageously low price or from a normal auctioner selling a single product, like a second hand computer they'd consider you a genuine victim however. While the second case is unfortunate and it's perhaps understandable you were fooled, it's not exactly something they may consider worth their while pursuing and they may instead suggest you take it up with the seller or Ebay. Ditto if you asked your friend to make you a computer, even if you asked for a paid for a genuine copy of Windows. In any case, Windows XP is dying so I'm not sure how long the programme will last. Nil Einne (talk) 12:07, 8 January 2010 (UTC)


 * My little sister has made a long winded guess too but that is not what I'm looking for. 71.100.3.13 (talk) 13:34, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Answerbag
Do sections VI and VII of the AB Terms of Use allow us to post anything in Answerbag? http://www.answerbag.com/forums/topic.php?t=364

(oops)Civic Cat (talk) 16:59, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

What are "Terms of Service", "Terms of Use", etc for
Is it because that's how the site really wants you to behave, or is it to protect themselves. "But your honour, in our Terms of Service, we explicitly forbid others posting such content, and that they also give truthful and accurate information about themselves; it was only after police investigation that that member Michael Hunt of ZIP code 90210 may have be mis-representing himself."

I have a similar posing in the Answerbag forum that might shed light to some of what I'm asking: Do sections VI and VII of the AB Terms of Use allow us to post anything in Answerbag?

Thanks for any help.Civic Cat (talk) 23:47, 7 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I am going to say that it is usually both, even though obviously nobody reads them; so self-protection is the (much) larger of the two motives. The bnetd article will be of interest; Blizzard Entertainment won a case against some software developers because they had breached both a ToS and a ToU.  (Our Terms of Service and Terms of Use articles are pretty poor stubs that can use a lot of expansion.)  Legalistically, if someone who is, especially, a paying customer has his or her service rescinded without a refund because, for example, they are posting racist diatribes on a forum or something, then when the company kills their account and removes all their posts and, in WoW, confiscates all the customer's virtual possessions, the company is more safe from retributive lawsuits if the company can point out that the customer violated the site's ToS or ToU, which probably pre-empts other claims.  So, the main reason these exist is to reduce the number of times the company gets sued, and to improve the chance of winning if they are sued; but also it's probably accurate to say the company usually wants you to behave in the way that's specified in the ToS and ToU.  Comet Tuttle (talk) 00:18, 8 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Indeed, the thing is, I check out, say Dizzay's Terms of Service. I copy and paste on a WORD file--takes 9 pages. On "6. MEMBER CONDUCT" it includes "You understand that by using the Service, you may be exposed to Content that is offensive, indecent or objectionable. Under no circumstances will Dizzay be liable in any way for any Content, including, but not limited to, any errors or omissions in any Content, or any loss or damage of any kind incurred as a result of the use of any Content posted, emailed, transmitted or otherwise made available via the Service."  before adding  "You agree to not use the Service to: a.	upload, post, email, transmit or otherwise make available any Content that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortious, defamatory, VULGER, OBSCENE (my emphasis) libelous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, or racially, ethnically or OTHERWISE OBJECTIONABLE.  Yet I check the first page of their "Society & Culture," I see this. :-D Civic Cat (talk) 01:01, 8 January 2010 (UTC)


 * OK, well, the first argument is that a pair of boobs is not necessarily vulgar or obscene or objectionable; but let's sidestep that argument and just suppose that somebody posted a bunch of vulgar, obscene, and objectionable material to the board. The poster has now breached the ToS and/or the ToU.  That doesn't mean the site owner is automatically going to take down all those posts and/or images.  They can if they want to, or they can ignore the problem if they want to, or they can wait until 2014 to get around to reviewing the posts on their own forum and taking them down.  It's their site and they can police it however they want.  Comet Tuttle (talk) 01:08, 8 January 2010 (UTC)


 * and as they also said 'you may see this stuff, but stuff and we aren't responsible if you do', then you can't pursue them for allowing you see that stuff regardless of whether people are allowed to post it. Nil Einne (talk) 12:13, 8 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Understood, Comet Tuttle and Nil Einne. Indeed, Yahoo! Answers says as much in their TOS: "Section 26: GENERAL INFORMATION  “Waiver and Severability of Terms.” The failure of Yahoo! to exercise or enforce any right or provision of the TOS shall not constitute a waiver of such right or provision. If any provision of the TOS is found by a court of competent jurisdiction to be invalid, the parties nevertheless agree that the court should endeavour to give effect to the parties' intentions as reflected in the provision, and the other provisions of the TOS remain in full force and effect.”"  However, again, I wonder if this is directed more to potential plaintiffs than defendants.  It kind of reminds me of a movie about the Stonewall riots (it might have been this one). Some conservative looking gays, wanting to make a point, go to a gay bar. They are greeted by a drag queen who's the bartender. They say something explicit like, "Yes, we are two homosexuals, and we like to have a couple of beers” which the drag queen bartender immediately starts quoting the then NY State law that bars serving alcohol to homosexuals. Another example is two female investigative reporters wanting to do an expose the escort services in the city by applying to be escorts. Not only does the employer tells them that they needn't have sex with the client, but explicitly forbids it.  The way I see it, if Dizzay really had a problem with what I cite--and yes, Comet Tuttle, I agree, a pair of boobs is not necessarily vulgar or obscene or objectionable, though some might find one with eyes on the nipples, or another avatar on the same page, where a woman is naked waist down, might offend some sensibilities in both our countries--I'm sure they could do a major clean-up without great effort. The fact they don't means that they seem to tacitly approve of it--insofar that it, like many other sites, attract viewers and thus boost ad rates. Ditto Yahoo! Answers, Answerbag, facebook, et al.  It’s also interesting that the TOS/U of Yahoo! Answers, Answerbag, and the apparently adult oriented Dizzay, is several pages long; whereas the less trafficked Fluther’s, is only a few. Wikipedia seems to take another track, no hard fast runs that can never ever be broken--Ignore all rules, though it has a truck load of of Cat:WP:essays, and being a non-profit foundation, a prosecutor of Wikipedia might be socially torn asunder by the mob of Wikipedian savants. :-D  Full disclosure, I'm a member of Yahoo! Answers. Here's my profile. The profile's very existence is a violation of TOS: in my profile, I state "This account, and others, of mine here were violations of TOS (section 3) and CG (multiple accounts), and I'm trying to get a little more principled."  I signed up before thinking hard about the whole legality, and more so, the morality and ethics of it. I'd like to do a few things that would be a violation of their TOS and CG, as well as in other sites--I figure that I'd be a net contributor despite it; but,--with exception to greatly reduced activity in my current account--not if it either violates their TOS/U, or if I can decently justify my actions that such TOS/U again, aren't really directed at me, but at potential plaintiffs, and those who hurt the site more than add to it--and yes, such are somewhat my arbitrary definitions.  Again thank you, now have a coffee. You deserve it after reading all of this. :-D Civic Cat (talk) 16:55, 8 January 2010 (UTC)