Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2010 November 2

= November 2 =

e-mail listserve
whats a e-mail listserve — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kj650 (talk • contribs)


 * LISTSERV was a specific software for electronic mailing list management. Its name was catchy, so "list serve" now is a genericized name for any email list management tool.  Nimur (talk) 01:45, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Firesheep
Can someone explain how this works to me? When I learned networking in school (2003-04), we learned that packets were filtered out by NIC's on the hardware level, and as such it was impossible for software to sniff packets from other users unless one specifically purchased a NIC with built-in promiscuous mode, which our teachers told us was rare. However, everything I've been reading about this software makes it sound like this is not rare. Can someone explain this? Magog the Ogre (talk) 04:00, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Every network card I've seen, even the old cheap Realtek ones, offered a promiscuous mode. As you suspect, it's not rare at all. I even wonder if network cards without promiscuous mode exist at all, as the online FAQs of some capturing product (libpcap, Wireshark) don't seem to mention this as a possible failure cause. Unilynx (talk) 05:02, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Promiscuous network card mode is not rare - it's just rarely enabled by software drivers. Almost all hardware supports this mode.  Installing a network monitor like Wireshark is the easiest way to experiment with enabling promiscuous mode.  Strictly speaking, Firesheep does not have a packet sniffer; you must install pcap, a well-known software packet sniffer (that functions by replacing your network interface driver with its own driver) .  (See Firesheep installation procedure).    Firesheep then provides a user-friendly interface, not unlike Wireshark, except that Firesheep is tuned specifically to filter for Facebook login traffic and similar sorts of things, and then display that information in an impressive way.  The real meat-and-potatoes of the software is pcap - which has been around for ages and has always been capable of these sorts of data interceptions.  Firesheep is just a "pretty-printer" for packet-sniffers.  Nimur (talk) 05:08, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Agree with the previous comments, promiscuous mode is not rare but normally set off because it is normally thought to be not useful. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 15:38, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Magog the Ogre, you may be interested in Wikipedia Signpost/2010-11-01/Technology report.
 * —Wavelength (talk) 16:51, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

How do you run the add on if you add it? 84.203.243.10 (talk) 10:46, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * You might want to start a new section, or frankly, just google it. Magog the Ogre (talk) 23:09, 3 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I can certainly believe professors saying it was rare in 2003, but by 2003 it was hardly rare. Check out Orinoco cards if you're interested (one of the most talked about wireless chipsets around that time), but even Intel was getting in on its Centrino related cards back then, all of which supported promiscuous mode even in Windows. It was hardly rare back then. It may have been rare before then, but I'll leave that to somebody older than me. Shadowjams (talk) 09:37, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Video games
If a human and a computer were to play a game of Starcraft, with neither receiving any advantages or handicaps, who would win? How about in other video games, like Counterstrike, Rise of Nations, or Civilization 4? Is there any well-known real-time strategy game in which the AI has ultra-superhuman capabilities (i.e. it can easily beat the best human player)? --99.237.232.254 (talk) 04:08, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Edit: let me change Starcraft to Starcraft II, since the former was made at a time when artificial intelligence was in its infancy. --99.237.232.254 (talk) 04:11, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Historical note: The artificial intelligence seen in computer games isn't representative of the state of the art of AI research. See AI Winter for a historical overview of the rise and fall of AI research. Paul (Stansifer) 12:32, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * With RTS games it's usually down to APM (actions per minute)... the best players in the world can get (incredibly) over 300 APM if memory serves me correctly about some Starcraft 1 Pro Korean players. Actions comprise keystrokes and mouse movements and clicks. I think there was a documentary where their brain functions were monitored, and the casual gamer would get up to about 60 APM and be cognitively aware of every action, whereas the pro would get up to 300 APM and have an instinctive awareness of the whole map... different areas of the brain lit up in the monitoring. However, given your question, you would allow the computer to have as high an APM as possible for its CPU (and the computer player's APM is limited even on the toughest level)... so in my opinion any human would not stand a chance, unless the computer AI is terribly flawed or the human exploits a bug. There was a time when a computer would not have been able to beat the best humans (compare chess and the progress of computer ELO ratings) but the modern computer is way too powerful in terms of raw computational speed. Now turn-based - like Civ - that's another argument altogether... I think a top human player ( or a forum based game) would be able to beat a computer player simply because it's incredibly difficult to write AI for Civ (the highest levels in Civ employ resource cheating). For FPS I think a godlike computer player would own a human (the computer is fast enough to dodge anything at close range for example)- but I've seen humans do some incredible things in those games (hide, snipe, etc.) so I don't know. Sandman30s (talk) 11:09, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree with Sandman30s, mostly. Suppose a series of games is made, each of which has one primary test that the user is continuously competing against.  On one extreme the test is reflexes with no strategy (perhaps electronic whack-a-mole) and on the other extreme the test is strategy with no reflexes (perhaps chess or go).  The closer you get to the "reflexes" side of this spectrum, the more obvious it is that the computer will beat any human.  As you get closer to the "strategy" side, it becomes less obvious &mdash; a run-of-the-mill chess program will beat your average human chess player 99% of the time, but that's not true for go.  An RTS I would place somewhere about halfway between reflexes and strategy, and one way to analyze the probable outcome is to say that the computer will completely beat the human on the reflexes component, and it's less obvious on the strategy component.  Personally I think the strategy element of RTS games is pretty elementary and so it's going to be the computer in a landslide, if the developer has spent a decent amount of time writing good AI &mdash; but everything does hinge on that.  Comet Tuttle (talk) 16:27, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Here's a story that was linked by Slashdot today discussing using genetic algorithms to optimize build orders for the Zerg. Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:13, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Specifically, it's about optimizing a zerg rush. --Carnildo (talk) 22:47, 3 November 2010 (UTC)


 * The strategy component in most RTS's, including Starcraft, is by no means simple. A simple Google search would reveal lots of webpages, and even entire books, devoted to exploring the best strategies in Starcraft--and very few of these require a high APM.  These strategies are very difficult for a human to think up or defend against, so I don't think it would be easy for a computer.  --99.237.232.254 (talk) 05:40, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I would go with what a multiple world champion Korean pro does, rather than what a random internet guide says. However, if the human and computer knew exactly the same strategies, it would come down to APM and no human can be remotely close when it comes to raw computation. Sandman30s (talk) 08:57, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Difficulty in choosing username
Pretty much every website on the internet requires a username these days if you intend to participate. I have extreme difficulty in choosing username; I have few defining interests or hobbies to base a username on, I don't want to include any part of my real identity, I don't want to divulge my gender. I thought about just using random numbers or something, but almost every site requires a combination of letters and numbers, and some block random usernames as "confusing". Any suggestions? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.37.143.221 (talk) 11:07, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * How about something obvious you can see around you - eg "22inchsonytv" or "nextdoorsfordcar" ? Sf5xeplus (talk) 13:14, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * This topic comes up once every few months here. Here is a thread from last December containing some suggestions.  Personally I like choosing two random nouns in a row.  Comet Tuttle (talk) 16:18, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Just be sure to avoid this issue... ;-) -- 78.43.71.155 (talk) 21:53, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Try one of these. I haven't used them so not sure what they give you. Mo ainm  ~Talk  16:25, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * There's an obvious security problem with asking some website to decide your username and password for other websites. Comet Tuttle (talk) 16:31, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Password yes and I would never suggest anyone used one, but a username is different. Mo ainm  ~Talk  16:37, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Here is a page that just picks random adjectives and pairs them with random nouns. Click it a few times until you see something you find enjoyable. Of the ones I got, I liked "BourgeoisBasement" and "EverydaySubstitute" the most, personally. --Mr.98 (talk) 16:56, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

something that's quite simple is: tke your initials, and stick a random number, or a number that actually means something to you, say for example you like seven, then you could square that and add that to your initials, eg. gyd49 or take a character you like and stick your birth year behind it 70.241.22.82 (talk) 17:41, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * See Check Username Availability at Multiple Social Networking Sites.
 * —Wavelength (talk) 18:21, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Translate your real name into some other language and use that. Jean Aigle 22:04, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Chinese ?
Anyone seeing chinese characters in their watchlists or contribution listings (on wikipedia), or is it just me? ok it's stopped now - but explain this (see right) I suppose I should ask what the character is too (chinese for 'you've been hacked' no doubt) ?!! Sf5xeplus (talk) 13:14, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Request - whomever does identify the character (maybe somebody more skilled in the use of a Chinese IME), could they paste it in plain-text as well? I have a sneaking suspicion it's going to be a character encoding glitch - most likely "-1" in one of the unicode code-pages or something.  Nimur (talk) 14:34, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * It is a character encoding glitch. It is, for some reason, using unicode when it shouldn't.  The character is 楷, meaning "good". --  k a i n a w &trade; 14:38, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Would you elaborate how can an HTML page (especially one encoded in UTF-8) not use Unicode?—Emil J. 14:46, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * It is using a code that it shouldn't be using - if you want to be painfully pedantic. -- k a i n a w &trade; 16:45, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * It's marked all my edits as good - that's a feature not a bug :)
 * I suppose a bug report is pointless, as I can't reproduce it.Sf5xeplus (talk) 16:46, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Simple email forwarding
For a club I'm a member of, I'd like to be able to set up an email address that will forward messages to a (small) specified list of recipients, with no, or minimal, action required by the recipients themselves. The purpose its to allow members of the group to send a message to all other members by emailing to a single address. We're currently using Yahoo Groups, but are finding that rather cumbersome to use, and we don't need all the facilities it provides. Can anyone recommend a suitable way of achieving this? (Preferably free, of course, or at least very cheap.) AndrewWTaylor (talk) 15:23, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * A distribution/mailing list? Not too savvy about it myself, but this page might be worth a look: http://email.about.com/od/outlooktips/qt/Distribution_List_Outlook.htm - as might the google search I got it from http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&biw=1260&bih=810&q=outlook+mailing+list&aq=f&aqi=g1g-c4g1g-c1g1g-c1g1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= Darigan (talk) 16:24, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Do you want this to be hosted by some other web service, as Yahoo Groups is; or do you control a web server yourself so you can install some software? If the latter, see LISTSERV or Electronic mailing list and follow the links from there for various solutions you can set up on your server.  Comet Tuttle (talk) 16:30, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks both. @Darigan: it needs to be independent of the email client and usable by e.g. Hotmail users. @Comet Tuttle: Ideally I want it externally hosted - there isn't a server I can use; we do have a couple of Internet domains, but the  company they are registered with (FreeParking) only allows forwarding to a single email address (as far as I can tell). AndrewWTaylor (talk) 17:26, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Upgrading my HP ATi Mobility Radeon 4530
I was trying to run a program that didn't work on my Hewlett Packard laptop. Talking with someone on the net I was told that my ATi Mobility Radeon 4530 driver was outdated. I needed to upgrade in order to run the program, and i followed a link given to me to download it :

http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us

on this site I chose option 2, to let the site determine what upgrades i needed so I followed that and ended u pwith this site:

http://drivers.softpedia.com/get/GRAPHICS-BOARD/ATI/HP-ATi-Mobility-Radeon-HD-4530-4650-Driver-56312000-Rev-A.shtml

I downloaded the files and installed the program. But at the end of installation a message told me it was finished and that I already had these upgrades, and that i was now only upgrading atop upgrades I already had. So i figured ok, then it must be in order and I have the necessary upgrades. But, another program called "Driver Mender" which I also downloaded from the links i got to check the computer's system and let me easily upgrade my computer with the newest stuff tells me that I still have ATi Mobility Radeon 4530 and that it is in need of upgrade. And I don't understand why this is happening when i downloaded HP ATi Mobility Radeon HD 4530/4650 Driver upgrade from this link :

http://drivers.softpedia.com/get/GRAPHICS-BOARD/ATI/HP-ATi-Mobility-Radeon-HD-4530-4650-Driver-56312000-Rev-A.shtml

So i'm confused since everytime i try install it again it still says I already have the upgrades, but then the Driver mender says the opposite. Where on my computer can I go to check my system information, including of course what version of the ATi Radeon driver i have?

Any advice on what to do, or what sites to go to to get the latest upgrades? Free of course, like this one was.

As for the program I was supposed to run in the first place, nevermind that, because I'm not running that program now after all (Don't ask) but i still want my computer to be upgraded as good as possible when i have the chance.

Any clever computer minds out there? :) Krikkert7 (talk) 18:14, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * For an ATI driver (not an NVidia, for which your first link is, which isn't going to work) either go to ATI's own website or to HP's website and pick the appropriate driver for your model of laptop. I can't think of any reason you'd get it from anywhere else. -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 19:57, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes i know, the nvidia page only helped me determine what upgrades I needed, and i didn't download anything from that site but found my way to the other link i showed and downloaded from there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Krikkert7 (talk • contribs) 01:29, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

base64_decode
I came across a footer.php file that looks like it is encrypted as it just contains random letters and digits, base64_decode is the only part that makes any sense so I assume encryption was used on it. Is there any way to decode this page. Mo ainm ~Talk  19:51, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * That sounds like it's base 64 encoded; you really shouldn't see that (the browser should automatically decode it), but you can manually decode it. You can do that on your own computer (using one of the many base64 libraries) or with an online thing like this. -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 19:55, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Thats great thanks I'll have a look at that. Mo ainm  ~Talk  19:59, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Weird networking trouble
I wrote a few days ago for advice about my computer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Computing#Unallocated_space). However, I have a bigger problem starting yesterday. Basically, this computer (Dell Alienware) connects fine to the port in the wall but my computer (Asus n61jv-x2) does not. To confound the problem, the wireless router stopped working* the same time as the ASUS did and I have been scratching my head since. Both systems are running Windows 7 and as far as I know, the same wired networking hardware (Atheros AR8132 on the Alienware and AR8131 on the Asus) too. I am at a loss to what to do. Any ideas please? I don't know how much IT can help as the port is clearly functional (right?). Thank you! You guys are my hero. Kushal (talk) 20:16, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

*To clarify, we were both using the wireless router Netgear WGR614v7 but now that it is not working, I have the Alienware hooked up to the wall. The router seems to be pretty much alive but the logo i on the router stays a blinking yellow. Resetting the router did not help. Kushal (talk) 20:20, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Just to clarify, did you try unhooking the Alienware machine from the router so you could make sure to use exactly the same plug on the router when attempting to hook up your computer to the router? What exactly happens when your computer is hooked up to the router and you restart your computer?  What happens when you ping the router's IP address from the command line?  Comet Tuttle (talk) 20:45, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Comet, Thanks for answering. Yes. I tried various things. When I hook up the Alienware to the wall, everything is fine. When I hook up the Asus to the wall, there is no connection. When I hook up either machine to the Netgear, I am connected to the router but there is no Internet. Because I was able to get into the router's management system at routerlogin.com, I did not think about pinging the router. I mean, the connection between the router and the computer seems fine. It is just the router to the wall part that's messing me. Kushal (talk) 21:54, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Hold up, that's not clear enough - when you hook up the Asus to the router, you are able to ping it and connect to its management web page? I had started to suspect that, against the odds, you had experienced a simultaneous hardware failure of both the router and the Ethernet circuitry on the Asus, so the solution was to get a new router and also get a new Ethernet adapter for the Asus (like a PC card or maybe a USB Ethernet adapter).  But if the Asus is able to communicate with the router, then you may be able to fix this by just replacing the router and twiddling with the Asus's network settings.  Comet Tuttle (talk) 00:07, 3 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Any ideas on what tweaks I could do to it? I am new to Windows 7. Kushal (talk) 15:50, 3 November 2010 (UTC)


 * OK, I have more details. I can connect via ethernet at another place. In my room, whenever I connect by ethernet, I see multiple connections called Network 2 and Network 3 (or something) simultaneously connected. Is that a problem? The place I connected successfully at only shows one active connection. Help? Kushal (talk) 16:02, 3 November 2010 (UTC)


 * (Is that plugged straight into the wall in your room, or through the router?) This is good news; your laptop's network circuitry seems fine.  It is unusual that you would see both of those connections.  I will take a guess that your machine is connecting via the Ethernet cable on one of them, and via a wireless connection on the other.  From the "Network" Control Panel, take a look at each of the two connections, and right-click and disconnect whichever one isn't the wired Ethernet connection.  Right-click the other and choose to repair the connection and see if that automagically fixes your connection?  Comet Tuttle (talk) 18:28, 3 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, I have pretty much ruled out any hardware faults. Got in touch with IT. Could not get the issue resolved so we did a workaround. We made the computer believe I have a static IP address (and knowing the DHCP server won't issue those IP addresses in the foreseeable future), we are good to go, for now. I did try to disable and repair connections but there is something with dhcp and the 192.168 servers that just don't fit. In other news, I gave the wireless router a very similar IP address and it is running now too! I am on wireless on the Asus now. The only thing is that the whole thing has left me feeling strange. I think I need to wipe the computer and reinstall Windows as per the discussion above. The only problem is that there is so much software I have installed and it is such a chore to reinstall them. :?


 * Thank you so much for your help. Did anything in what I said ring a bell with you? Please let me know if you think there's a solution to this. Thanks Kushal (talk) 21:59, 3 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Hey, if you got it working, you got it working; don't wipe the system needlessly; you might have to just do the same kludge again to get networking working again even after a wipe and reinstall. Enjoy your networking!  Glad you had access to an IT person who was able to come up with a workaround.  Comet Tuttle (talk) 22:46, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

As you say. The guy actually told me that this was not a solution but just a workaround and I would need to get it fixed. I would hate to have to reinstall all applications one at a time. :/ Kushal (talk) 19:44, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

MacBook Pro
Hi. I have a Macbook Pro that is now about four and a half years old. I'm not sure what state it should be in by this stage but it seems to have slowed down remarkably in the last few weeks, since giving it a lot more use after a few months of respite. I've never done anything to 'clean up' my hard drive or anything technical like that, I've just used it normally over the years but I've not put so much on it to warrant it taking up to ten minutes to load a web page and constantly tell me programs are not responding. Does anyone have any ideas on what I could do to speed it up? 128.232.247.49 (talk) 21:59, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Are you running low on disk space? It is preferable to have at least a few gigabytes of free disk space on your computer. Kushal (talk) 23:05, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Do you live near an Apple Store? Going to a Genius Bar would probably be an easy way to get a quick diagnosis (which wouldn't cost anything). Otherwise it is pretty hard to tell what the issue is from the description you've given. When something is acting up funny on mine, I try to figure out what is going on from the Activity Monitor (Utilities > Activity Monitor; then go to Window > Activity Monitor to make sure the main screen is displaying). Sort the processes by CPU — what's at the top? Is there something hogging up the processor? Sort by "Real Mem" — is something unusual hogging all the RAM? Look at the "System Memory" tab — are you consistently out of RAM? Look at Disk Activity when you are doing something that might take a long time — does it seem to lock up at all? Paying attention to these kinds of indicators can let you know if the problem is, say, rooted in a hardware issue (e.g. not enough RAM or a buggy hard drive) rather than a software issue. Also, what OS are you using? I found that my MacBook running 10.4.11 got very slow for awhile and that many of my programs were just not very efficient about its usage of memory, and a lot of that was fixed when I upgraded to 10.6 (which was fairly cheap and easy, in the end). --Mr.98 (talk) 23:14, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The disk is about the only part that can slow down, either if files are fragmented heavily, or if bad blocks are being mapped out and the replacement blocks are non-local. If you want to keep the computer going, try reformatting and reinstalling, or buy a replacement drive. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 23:32, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Disk defragmenting might be useful for this... 70.241.22.82 (talk) 16:35, 3 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Disk fragmentation is not an issue on OS X - never worry about it. run Disk Utility (or Disk Warrior, if you own it) on the hard drive to see if its failing, try reseating the ram sticks (bad or loose ram can confuse the system); add more ram if you have a Gb or less, check to see if some background app is hogging a lot of CPU (usual culprits are the Finder and mdworker - both of those should settle out over time), if all else fails, download Yasu (or equivalent) and clear all the caches, system swap files, update the prebindings, etc. (sometimes corrupt font or system caches can cause a bit of a tizzy).  -- Ludwigs 2  16:42, 3 November 2010 (UTC)