Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2010 October 16

= October 16 =

DVD drive won't read certain DVDs
My DVD drive on my computer won't read certain DVDs. It reads some of them just fine, but there's two that I have right now (Leviathan (film) and Outland (film), if it makes any difference) that it won't read. It will spin up like it's reading them, for maybe 8 seconds, and then stop. After that, it will repeatedly spin up for maybe 3 seconds, stop for a second or two, and repeat. It could just be dirty DVDs I guess, but it seems odd that three of them (Outland has two sides) wouldn't work at once. I tried them in my friend's computer's DVD drive, and it reads them just fine. My drive's not totally shot, as it plays another DVD I have (The Postman (film), again, not that it matters). It's also reading my game CDs fine. I don't have any music CDs to try right now. I could understand if my drive was failing, but it's consistently able to read certain discs, and consistently unable to read other discs, which is really weird. I went to the device manager and looked for any driver updates; it said that I was up to date. All the DVDs say that they're region 1. I'm running Windows 7 on a U81A Asus laptop that I bought in August 2009. Any help would be appreciated. Buddy431 (talk) 00:03, 16 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Discs are subject to errors and quality variations. Not all commercially pressed or stamped discs will be of the same quality, even when fulfilling their quality control parameters. Drives will also have differing capacities in their capability to handle these variations in disc quality. It sounds like your drive is not exactly faulty, but let's say sensitive. Your friend's drive less so. These discs are possibly at the lower end of the quality scale, thus why you're only having issues with some of them. I have had similar problems. One CD player I have first 'rejected' a disc that worked on some other players about 15 years ago, but to this day still works fine for most discs, so it's not necessarily that your drive is about to fail. FWIW - and entirely anecdotally - in recent times I've been noticing increased error rates on new discs (legally produced and purchased), I'm guessing as a result of cost cutting on production as sales prices have dropped, especially those in multipacks and ones that try to squeeze on a lot of content. Giving the disc a good clean (which shouldn't be necessary for brand new DVDs) sometimes, indeed often, fixes issues. Compact Disc manufacturing is probably the best article we have on this. --jjron (talk) 02:52, 17 October 2010 (UTC)


 * The so-called DVD "copy protection" works basically by introducing errors on the disc, which tends to frustrate not only reproduction software, but also playback in sensitive drives. There is a great variation in methods used, which means that some discs will play and some won't, and the methods get more and more aggressive over time, which may be one reason why jjron observes increased error rates on new discs.—Emil J. 12:18, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Microsoft and the VPN
Here's something of a conundrum. I live in the UK. I realised I needed to re-register an old hotmail.com (the .com part is crucial), which I'd used for a service in the past, and which I'd let lapse. Note that HoTMaiL considers foo@hotmail.com and foo@hotmail.co.uk to be entirely distinct, and allows them to be owned by different people. When I visit hotmail.com, the server figures out that I'm in the UK on a BT connection, redirects me to the live.co.uk website, and there I can only register a hotmail.co.uk address. So I signed up for StrongVPN, with a point of presence in New York state. I'm signed into that now (if you do a whois on the address I'm posting from, you'll see that it's registered to reliablecomputing (who own StrongVPN). Web based services like dnsstuff.com and Hulu concur that I appear to be in New York. But if I visit hotmail.com, it still figures out that I'm in the UK, and still only offers me a UK address. I'm not worried about the email address (I've since found another entrance into MSN which didn't have these smarts, and so I've managed to register the address I needed to).  But I'm still curous about how hotmail.com is figuring out where I really am.  Here are some details (which serve only to reject the more obvious ideas I had): I'd welcome any ideas anyone might have as to how this could be.  Thanks. 173.195.1.144 (talk) 15:32, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
 * my PC (it's windows 7) is behind a NAT - so even if a flash script or something is sending the machine's local address, it's a non-routable one (10.0.0.201 or the like), which gives hotmail no information
 * I'm using Firefox (so I can't blame any scary privacy-leaking function of IE)
 * As I've said, services like Hulu don't see a UK IP, so the VPN must be rewriting the addresses in the IP packets I'm sending, as you'd obviously expect it to.


 * Try clearing browser cookies. 82.44.55.25 (talk) 15:36, 16 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Other then cookies, perhaps Hotmail is just deciding your in the UK because your prefererred language is en-GB (which I'm guessing it is) which is actually a bad idea since many people not in the UK may have that but since it is Hotmail, who knows... Nil Einne (talk) 15:49, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Not that likely, because an Australian user for example would also use en-GB but not be directed to the UK site. Being Microsoft, maybe it's possible (and I have no idea whether or not they actually do this) that they are detecting that your version of Windows was registered in the UK, and they are basing it off that? --jjron (talk) 03:04, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Well that's what I said isn't it? I presume they might use IP address in the first instance, perhaps turning to language if the IP address is in the US but the language is something else. Sounds like a bad idea but who knows. AFAIK, the registration location of the OS isn't intentionally given away by any common browser which is why I didn't mention it although I've now found out (actually should have occured to me) the timezone is . (I use intentionally since you never know what your browser is giving away somewhat unintentionally e.g. .) It seems in HTML5 there's also support for the browser giving geolocation info, whether from GPS, wifi hotspots or whatever to websites  but most would ask before they do so. Nil Einne (talk) 07:05, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
 * No, you said 'who knows...'. Well I know because I know that Hotmail in Aus doesn't direct you to the UK site. :) If anything, sites like that almost always default to the US site if there's no Aus version, not a UK variant. Now if they based it on the timezone, then surely the OP could change their timezone to a US setting and give it a try (works for that browserspy site). I'd find the timezone theory unlikely though, given how many other countries share the same timezones. --jjron (talk) 10:36, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
 * The 'who knows' bit was referring to the fact that given we are talking about Microsoft, they may do odd things which you wouldn't think make sense. I thought it was obvious from my statement that I'm well aware the method wouldn't work in many cases (hence why I said "since many people not in the UK may have that"), apologies if this wasn't as clear as I thought. FWIW I live in New Zealand and used to live in Malaysia so I'm well aware plenty of people outside the UK have their language as en-GB (mine is), in fact it was on reason it occured to me. Note that you appear to be presuming there's only one method of detection. This may be the case, it may also be that Microsoft use multiple different methods depending on the specifics. It's easily possible for example they use a system, IP = UK, language = en-GB, timezone = BST/BDT, .uk; IP = US, language = en-GB, timezone = GMT/BST, .uk; IP = US, language = fr, timezone = CET/CST =.fr; IP = US, language = en-GB, timezone = NZST/NZDT, .uk). I don't really think this is that likely, but again, given we are talking about Microsoft, who knows (without proper testing of the possibilities). Again, I thought all this was obvious from my earlier statement, apologies if it wasn't clear enough. P.S. Bing used to direct me to the UK site IIRC. P.P.S. I've just found out hotmail does in fact offer a .uk address to me and suggests I'm in the UK... Nil Einne (talk) 10:55, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Well I just found out I may have been right all along. If I delete all cookies for live (not sure if it's necessary but easier since I already have a cookie manager) and set en-US as my first/top language it offers hotmail.com/live.com, if I set en-GB as my first/top language it offers hotmail.co.uk/live.co.uk, if I set en-NZ as my first/top language it offers hotmail.co.nz (no live.co.nz). I'm fairly suprised it ignores my IP address which easily identifies me as being from NZ, but again as I said, with Microsoft who knows?
 * This also confirms what I expected that there is indeed a hotmail.co.nz (I initially suggested I would be offered .nz but upong checking found out I was offered UK) but given Microsoft's bizzarre system I suspect a lot of people don't have it even though they may want it.
 * Mind you, it seems this depends on your browser. Firefox provides "language" and "accepted languages" from . language is I guess the version of FF you download (mine is en-GB whatever I do), accepted languages includes whatever you've set (in order). IE provides the additional strings 3 system, user and browser. Browser and language are en-US in my IE (again probably reflecting that I have the en-US version of IE). Accepted and the other 2 are en-NZ in my case, I presuming going by my system settings. So for people with IE they're fine if their system language agrees with where they live and they do indeed want a domain for where they live. (English speakers in places like Malaysia where there's no appropriate recognise local English variant like en-MY may screwed unless they know to temporarily set their language to Malay.)
 * I'm not sure what's going on in your case. Whether for some strange reason it ignores IP for me but not for you (again with Microsoft who knows?). Or whether you were in fact mistaken about your language and/or not being offered .uk. BTW, the simple way to test this is to try to sign-up for an account and see what they offer you. You will always be on the live.com site from what I can tell (note that as we've discussed before on the RD in the modern era it doesn't mean you're on the same web server as someone in Timbuktu). Obviously if you already signed up for an account you will have whatever domain for the account when you signed up.
 * On the plus side, I have found out you can set languages for Firefox including en-NZ.
 * Nil Einne (talk) 11:29, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Unsurprisingly I'm not the first person to document this behaviour . I should have searched earlier. also mentions this behaviour albeit in a different context. I suspect this also explains why I used to end up at bing.co.uk until Microsoft realised that going by IP as everyone else does makes more sense (although I'm not sure if they used to have a NZ variant) Nil Einne (talk) 11:50, 18 October 2010 (UTC)