Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2011 June 18

= June 18 =

2 computer monitors
I'm trying to have my TV and a computer monitor work as dual monitors for my desktop, you know, like drag stuff in between them and have them display separate things. I have a splitter like this set up, but currently they both display the same thing. Do I need something else? I can't get it to show up as 2 monitors in the display panel. C T J F 8 3 01:59, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I guess if you only have the one out, you'd have to convince your OS the screen is as wide as the two displays instead of just one. If you're using Linux this is fairly simple using xrandr or xinerama, and especially if you have a nvidia graphics card (as they provide a little app to do it, to save you modifying text config files).  If you're using Windows I've no idea what to do, but someone else will.  If your desktop is a proper tower with any empty PCI slots (or even AGP, PCIe, etc.), another option is to spend $30 or less (quite frequently less) on an additional graphics card. ¦ Reisio (talk) 02:24, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, ok...it is XP. C T J F 8 3  02:35, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but you're not going to be able to do it with just a splitter cable. You need a graphics card that support dual outputs (as in both at the same time, not a card that has two different outputs, but can only use one of them at a time), or two seperate graphics cards. The product you linked to is specifically designed just to split the signal so it displays the same thing on both screens: This y-cable splits the VGA signal to provide simultaneous display of the same picture.  ZX81    talk  03:55, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, you can pick up a graphics card for under a hundred dollars that has dual output. A splitter will not cut the bananas, as it is just splitting the same signal. I would advise an ATI Radeon series graphics card (NVIDIAs are not as good). Now if you want three monitors without bothering with a troublesome SLI bridge or crossfire, try to find an ATI Radeon series that supports eyefinity. This page may prove useful in picking a graphics card. --  T H F S W  (T · C · E) 05:20, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I actually already have a NVIDIA GeForce card. There is an option in the graphics card menu for 2 monitors. What do I need to accomplish that, but not buying two graphics cards? And while we're here, I tried plugging the tv into the graphics card and the monitor into the old monitor outlet, but the monitor didn't work. Only the graphic card output did. Thoughts? C T J F 8 3  17:30, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Just make sure you have the latest NVIDIA driver installed and that's it really (The default Microsoft basic driver will only clone the screen on XP, it won't split it) and then go into Control Panel -> Display and click on the greyed out monitor and select/enable it to display your desktop on this monitor and that's basically it.  ZX81    talk  17:42, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I mean how do I split it? The splitter thing I linked to worked, in that it showed the same thing on both screens. I want different images on each screen, so I can play a game, and keep tabs on my Wikipedia addiction at the same time, and where I can drag stuff between to two monitors. C T J F 8 3  17:49, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Ignore the splitter cable as that'll always just display the same thing on both monitors. Plug one monitor into one port on your graphics card, plug another monitor into the other port, install the NVIDIA drivers and then enable the 2nd monitor as mentioned in my previous post :)  ZX81    talk  17:56, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * A graphics card that supports dual monitors with a single card will have two outputs on it.
 * They might be different kinds of outputs, (One VGA and one DVI seems common.) but there will be two places for you to plug in a monitor.
 * Otherwise, you'd need a second card. (However, at that point, it might be easier to get a single card with two outputs.) APL (talk) 18:17, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * There's only 1 graphics card port and 1 port that came with the computer...that for some reason doesn't work. So there is no device that will convert 1 port to two images? C T J F 8 3  18:18, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Ah sorry, I thought you meant you were plugging both devices into the NVIDIA graphics card. The onboard graphics card won't work at the same time as a plugged in card, they're only there as a basic option and hand over display control to any graphics card that is plugged in. That'll vary per motherboard, but that seems to be pretty much standard on every PC I've ever seen. If you don't want to buy an extra card (or replace the existing one) then Matrox do a DualHeadToGo (and TripleHeadToGo option which handles the hardware outside of the case with their software, but it's still cheaper to buy an additional card and install that (if you have room) and I'm not sure what the performance of games would be like after running it through the DualHeadToGo as essentially it makes your existing graphics card pretty much defunct.  ZX81    talk  19:16, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok, got it! VGA to the tv and DVI to the monitor. Ok, thanks all!!! C T J F 8 3  19:18, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, DVI has higher resolution, so it may be preferable to have DVI going to the TV and and VGA to the monitor. I don't know that it will make much difference though. --  T H F S W  (T · C · E) 02:29, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The primary advantage of DVI-D is the signal stays digital and doesn't go through a conversion to analog back to digital (with loss of quality in both conversions and while being transferred as an analog signal). If you are using DVI-A there will be no advantage, it's the same thing. The maximum resolution on VGA depends on the clock speed of the RAMDAC but I believe will usually be about 2048 x 1536 @ 85Hz (24 bit of course). You may of course be more likely to notice noise or other signal degradation at a higher resolution. A dual link DVI-D depends on the source and cable but may be able to support 2,560 × 1,600 @ 60 Hz with CVT-RB blanking (taken from our article). But the maximum resolution is a moot point if the VGA is capable of supporting whatever resolution you want to use. (As said the signal quality may be different.) Some TVs do have funny behaviour e.g. in resolutions they support over VGA. The TV probably doesn't have a DVI-D, from my experience many modern LCD TVs have VGA but no DVI-D. However you should be able to use a HDMI adapter for the DVI port although you may not get audio. Also if your card lacks HDCP then certain applications may require downsampling before the content can be transmitted ore even forbid it although you'd encounter the same thing over pure DVI-D. (There are some other limitations as our article notes but these aren't likely to be an issue.) Nil Einne (talk) 03:52, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

ping and keyboards
Two questions:

What are all possible methods of lowering Ping (video gaming) in online gaming?

I want to change the imput from my English keyboard to a Japanese keyboard I bought; what are the steps of doing that properly? 72.235.230.227 (talk) 03:46, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

I've added what I believe is the appropriate wiki link - Ping (video gaming) - to avoid possible confusion. Mitch Ames (talk) 06:17, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


 * To lower your ping you could try:
 * Don't use WiFi at any point to connect to the Internet, use cables.
 * Try and connect to a game server closer to your location.
 * Make sure you don't have anything else using your Internet connection, especially any downloads/streaming.
 * If you have ADSL, you could ask your provider to turn off "Interleaving" (switch to "Fast Path"), but unless you have a very stable connection it may cause your router to disconnect more.
 * Upgrade to a more stable/better Internet package with your provider.
 * In regards to the keyboard problem, you didn't say what operating system you're running, but assuming it's Windows see this Microsoft link for how to change the regional settings on your keyboard.  ZX81    talk  13:30, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't remember which brands do this, but Some types of virus checkers will scan incoming packets. This can increase your ping drastically.
 * On the other end of the stick, many viruses will do unpleasant things with your internet connection that will increase your ping drastically. APL (talk) 18:26, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Of ZX81's and APL's suggestions above, I believe I would order their likelihood of success as follows:


 * 1. Make sure nothing else is using your Internet connection, especially upstream &mdash; in my experience with a certain DSL provider, any upstream traffic chokes the downstream traffic horribly which will affect your gaming dramatically
 * 2. (tie) Upgrade to a better Internet package
 * 2. (tie) Just use a game server closer to your location
 * 3. Turn off your virus checker's packet scanner, if any
 * 4. Check for a virus on your system


 * I don't think using WiFi rather than cables is likely to improve your ping time. Local typical DSL download rates for me are like 3Mbps, and the theoretical maximum WiFi bandwidth for an 802.11g connection is 54Mbps, so I'd need to see a citation supporting the claim about this affecting latency (ping time).  Comet Tuttle (talk) 20:19, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I think you mean "using cables rather than WiFi". And it depends a lot on the signal quality. (Not necessarily the same as the signal strength) If packets are getting garbled by interference from the microwave oven upstairs, and the cordless phone in the next room over, the baby monitor across the street, and the cordless mouse/keyboard/headset you use for gaming, then those packets will need to be resent repeatedly and it will greatly increase your ping, even if your bandwidth doesn't get much worse. On the other hand if you're getting a good, clean, strong, wifi signal, then yea, I agree. It wouldn't be the first thing I'd worry about.  I sometimes can get very low pings with my WiFi connection.
 * I guess it comes down to WiFi being unpredictable, so if you're having problems, eliminating it is a good idea. As a trouble-shooting technique if nothing else. APL (talk) 20:38, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


 * No sources here, pure OR but I concur. Recently I was diagnosing someone's wifi which was having problems so was doing a lot of pings to the router and also to the gateway IP (first hop after the router). While the latency to the router was fairly low often under 10ms (although if you really want low pings 10 ms may be considered too high when it can be under 1 ms with a ethernet cable) I did notice occasional spikes of 50ms+ and this was near the access point. These spikes didn't usually last that long but I could easily imagine them having a negative effect on game play. The problem incidentally turned out to be because of the power saving settings of the wifi adapter whether the adapter, driver Windows 7 (or I think some sort of interaction since one test I did in another location with a different access point didn't seem to have the problem). And just to be clear I'm talking about the latency when the problem was fixed.
 * I would also disagree on the tie for better internet package. Most online games aren't really that bandwidth demanding. (I haven't actually gamed much in the past 1-2 years but I don't think things have changed that substanially.) If the connection isn't shared and you've turned off anything substanial using the upstream then a decent 3 mbps down/512k up connection should be enough. A higher upstream may help a bit. But in reality you will usually be able to tell if it may be a problem e.g. if you get spikes when there's a lot going on. More likely although it may have some improvement on game play (since games will usually adapt to the connection) it won't have much effect on latency. In other words, if there are no spikes or high variability and you get the same experience when nothing else is using the connection as when others are using it, you should not expect a higher upstream or downstream to make any real difference to latency.
 * On the other hand choosing a geographically close gaming server could easily change latency by 30ms or more depending on the location and routing (I've never lived in the US but I can see the difference between a west coast and east coast US server from NZ). If you're talking about a international server the difference could easily be 100ms+.
 * Now a 'better' connection may help if it's of different type, for example I imagine a fibre connection usually has a 1ms or so latency whereas even with interleaving off you're looking at ~10ms on a xDSL connection. On the other hand a 1GBPS up/down satellite connection is going to have terrible latency compared to a 1mbps down/512k up xDSL.
 * Of course not everyone can dedicate their connection to their gaming. That being the case a better connection, generally particularly on the upstream (which as CT says is usually the choke point) may help. Although before that, I would look in to setting up a Quality of service (QOS)/traffic shaping set up. I've found this can work fairly well in a cooperative environment particularly where you can designate low priority IPs (or I guess vlans) which are used for things like P2P. It is important you set it up properly, in particular the upstream limit should be slightly lower then the actual upstream so your QOS has an effect. Not perfect but it can definitely have a substanially improvement. ISPs usually do QOS of their own, looking for one who promise good gaming may help (in the US I imagine their peering agreements can also have a big effect). Of course ZX said some ISPs may also have too many saturated connections.
 * Also CT didn't mention the suggestion to turn off interleaving when possible. That would often be a 20ms+ drop right there so probably belongs fairly high up.
 * I would also look at your computer. I personally like to make the distinction between network latency/lag and computer issues where I prefer to call the problems jerkiness. But if your computer is really to slow, it can also have an effect on your network latency if it doesn't send packets in time.
 * Nil Einne (talk) 03:18, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Thats quite a bit to read, but I think I can handle it to some extent. Closing all extra programs and clearing viruses, I have already done on basis, but is there that much difference in connection with DSL cable and Wifi? Game server locations and upgrading servers, I can't change. As for the keyboard, some of the keys don't work (as it is a 109-key board); is there any sort of driver I should install (using XP)? 72.235.230.227 (talk) 11:19, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Question about references
Recently i have created a page "jiangxi university of traditional chinese medicine". I can see a message asking for adding references. I have few questions about references. 1. Which king of references i need to provide? 2. If it regards to publications then can i add references written in Chinese Language?

thanks for your kind help. Dr. Aqeel


 * This isn't really where you ask the question, but if you're saying you contributed an article to English Wikipedia and the references are in Chinese, that should be fine if there are no translations available. Vchimpanzee ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 15:54, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


 * And I added so your reference would appear. It's better to add the title of the source, too, in case the link doesn't work at some point in the future. But I'm at home and prefer not to visit unfamiliar sites from there. Vchimpanzee  ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 15:59, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


 * See Citing sources. Using a template generally makes adding refs in an appropriate format easier. --jjron (talk) 10:15, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

What's this character?
The first version of Fanny Crosby, the English Wikipedia's longest article about an individual person, links to Unit­ed States. It's not a link to United States, because clicking on it takes the browser to http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Unit%C2%ADed_States&action=edit&redlink=1. What is the  character? J I P &#124; Talk 20:44, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


 * 0xC2AD is a utf-8 encoded char which decodes to Unicode char U+00AD, which is a soft hyphen. -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 21:09, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


 * It was present (in its HTML character entity form &amp;shy;) in the original text (which really horribly overuses them; perhaps the text is the output of an OCR program). -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 21:26, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I've removed 218 copies of that character from the article. -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 22:10, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Excellent, thanks. Because of their non-printing-nature (unless they're at the end of a visible line) I (and I guess no-one else) never noticed they were there. J I P  &#124; Talk 22:17, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Alt-C
I was on Wikipedia and accidentally pressed Alt-C when meaning to press Control V, and now the text is smaller everywhere. What can I do to get the text back to the normal size? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Littlebigguy1103 (talk • contribs) 21:26, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * On Windows? Holding down Ctrl while scrolling the mouse wheel will adjust text size. Avic ennasis  @ 21:58, 16 Sivan 5771 / 18 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Again on Windows, using IE7, pressing Ctrl and * simultaneously will reset the 'zoom' to 100%. (normal size)
 * Ctrl and + increases text size (zooms in).
 * Ctrl and - decreases text size (zooms out).
 * If the Status bar is displayed (at the bottom of the IE window), on the right it displays the 'zoom' level. You can click on it and select 100% which will also return your text to normal size. - 220.101 User talk:220.101.28.25\ 04:18, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I tried scrolling the mouse wheel with cntrl - now how do I get the text back to its previous size please? The wheel is not fine enough to do it. I'm using WinXP and Firefox. Thanks. 92.29.112.168 (talk) 19:16, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * In Firefox, you can reset the zoom level with Ctrl-0. -- da pete 19:54, 19 June 2011 (UTC)