Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2013 July 9

= July 9 =

66 years old and going soft in the head - I should have asked my 13 years old Grandson.
I recently signed a 3 year contract with T-Mobile/EE for an Android Smartphone (Samsung S3 Galaxy). It's brilliant - no complaints. I then went and bought for cash, an Apple iPad4. And now all the new info is coming home to roost and I have discovered that my 2 new toys are incompatible when it comes to putting all my PC Music in the iCloud because they operate on different platforms, plus I can't swap Bluetooth stuff without a cable instead of back to back. I don't want to let go of either piece of kit for at least a couple of years if at all possible, but don't want to wake up at 70 years of age and find once again I am an even older dinosaur than presently. Any advice will be gratefully received. Thanks in anticipation.80.6.13.178 (talk) 14:57, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Is there a question in there? 64.201.173.145 (talk) 15:53, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes. OsmanRF34 (talk) 17:52, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Backup your files with iTunes on the PC, then transfer them from the PC to the android via Bluetooth. Bluetooth for Apple devices only works between Apple devices. Alternatively, you could use something like Dropbox. I use this for work, because for most of my work I need to travel around (I'm an interpreter).  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( TALK )  16:08, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Lisp is a programmable programming language
What does it mean when people say that? Aren't all languages like that? (in the sense that they can be expanded. OsmanRF34 (talk) 17:41, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Lisp typically relies much more on metaprogramming and macros than other languages do. So a lot of the things that are fixed by the language designer in other programing languages are available to the lisp programmer to modify and manipulate. -- 205.175.116.72 (talk) 17:56, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Indeed. The classical view of LISP development is "extending the interpreter", not writing a separate program that runs on the interpreter. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 18:16, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * It has been a long time, but I think a LISP program can change itself. LISP works on lists, where a list is a list of objects enclosed by parentheses.  A LISP program itself is a list.  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 03:37, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, LISP programs can modify themselves. LISP is not unique in that way -- see Reflection (computer programming). But LISP makes it very easy to do (because the structure of a program is so simple, and because of eval). Among current languages, Python comes close (indeed, if you look under the hood, Python is very much an OO LISP dialect with beginner-friendly syntax). --Stephan Schulz (talk) 06:40, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

RAM for 2006 first-gen Mac Pro
I'm still trying to upgrade my 2006 first-generation Mac Pro to Win7, and seeing that not even Apple Support can tell me (insisting that no such thing as a "2006 first-generation Mac Pro" would be even known to them, see my original odyssee), I'd like to ask here what type of RAM I need to expand it. I've been told that even just a slight alteration in the specs either wouldn't fit mechanically or due to electronical incompatibility would roast my whole machine once I'd turn it on.

An IT tech told me something of "DDR2", and the specs in the article Mac Pro say that what I originally got this machine with are 667 MHz DDR2 ECC DIMMs and they require heat sinks each. Googling and using Amazon, what I often see are 800MHz rather than 667MHz RAM stacks of that type, would they be compatible or even recommendable? What else do I need to look out for? --37.80.190.4 (talk) 19:04, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't know what type of machine you actually have - because I'm not there looking at it - but assuming that you have correctly identified your device as a 2006 device, you have a seven-year-old Vintage or Obsolete Product. Special service providers may be able to help you with service, but Apple has "discontinued hardware service for vintage products."  For the most part, this means that nobody makes compatible parts; you won't even be able to order such parts.  There is no reason you should assume that the upgrade you are looking for is even possible; but the product is probably no longer covered by Apple Support.  Most probably, you will have to pay a third party for any help you need with that device.  If you get very lucky, some small shop may have a cache of old, compatible hardware parts.
 * Regarding installation of Windows 7: it seems self-evident - your machine does not satisfy the minimum system requirements to run Windows 7. Microsoft asserts: "Product functionality ...may vary based on your system configuration."  You could talk to Microsoft Support if you have any questions about their minimum system requirements.  Nimur (talk) 21:08, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Uhhh...I can't see anything from that table which says that my Mac Pro wouldn't qualify.


 * 1GHz or faster 32-bit processor: Check! It's actually a 2.66GHZ 64-bit QuadCore.
 * 2GB RAM: Check! It's exactly what's in there right now, but in order to run Adobe Creative Cloud on it, I wanna upgrade to at least 8GB.
 * 20GB system HDD: Check!


 * The rest I either don't need or (in the case of drivers) is supplied by BootCamp. Must be why Microsoft's own compatibility checking tool tells me my machine is fit for it, as does the article Mac Pro.


 * As for the RAM, I never expected Apple to sell me the pieces by now. All I'm trying to find out is what to buy from Amazon or any other place. There's plenty of RAM on Amazon which reads "667 MHz DDR2 ECC DIMM" (still sealed, some ads even saying that it's "Mac Pro-compatible", but I'd rather make sure somehow), as does the Wikipedia article Mac Pro for the 2006 version.


 * Also, it can't be "vintage", as it can't have been discontinued any earlier than 2008 at the earliest (which was when the second-generation Mac Pro was first introduced). In order to be defined as "vintage" by Apple, it must be discontinued for more than five years. --37.80.190.4 (talk) 01:08, 10 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Further proof: This Windows7 update, right from Apple, for the NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT or Quadro FX 4500 graphics card on the Mac Pro, that were *EXCLUSIVELY* shipped with the original 2006 first-generation Mac Pro, as you can see at Mac Pro. The only reason why Apple does not "officially" support Windows7 on the original 2006 first-gen Mac Pro is because the minimum RAM that it was shipped with was only 512MB, and Win7 64-bit requires 2GB RAM, a RAM size easily supported by this machine which could be shipped with up to 16GB RAM from Apple directly, and can *STILL* be expanded up to 32GB RAM. --37.80.190.4 (talk) 02:34, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * It's quite doubtful that you need RAM with heatsinks or heatspreaders, this depends entirely on the manufacturer of the RAM. That said, you should stick with ECC RAM if that is what's used, there's no guarantee non ECC is supported and if you are using the computer for professional purposes you may want ECC anyway. 800mhz RAM would probably work presuming it has SPD settings for 667mhz which it probably does, but there are no guarantees. (I'm presuming your mobo/chipset isn't capable of using 800mhz RAM which I don't lnow for sure.) But there are no guarantees particularly with such old hardware, sometimes weird stuff happens, e.g. I know of someone who had major problems getting single sided (well single ranked) 4GB DDR3 sticks to work even though double sided ones alleged work fine. And random compatibility problems can happen even with stuff which you would expect to work. And it may or may not be worse with ECC, I have insufficient exprience to say. Both computer or mobo manufacturers and RAM manufacturers generally publish RAM-mobo compatibility lists, but such lists are often very limited. Nil Einne (talk) 10:34, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * BTW, I'm pretty sure the 7300GT is not exclusive to the Mac Pro though the update you linked to appears to be for one which was. Also all cards listed as options for the Mac Pro are very weak, they will likely be sufficient for Aero but if you are using Creative Studio tools or other tools capable of using the GPU, you may want to consider a GPU upgrade as well, although I don't know what will work with Mac OS X. (I presume your mobo just has a standard 16x PCI express port.) Also you may want to make sure you can actually use Windows 7 x64, while your CPU is x64, the linked article suggests it has EFI32 and uses a 32 bit Mac OS X kernel and I don't know how Boot Camp works. Windows 7 x32 doesn't support more than 4GB, actually it doesn't support 4GB entirely either. And even if you uses 32 bit version of Windows with PAE, I'm pretty sure the 32 bit versions of the apps can't use more than 4GB. Nil Einne (talk) 12:45, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Forgot to mention you shold also determine if your computer uses registered or unbufferred RAM. Nil Einne (talk) 03:04, 16 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I would expect the 800MHz ECC memory you found to work. If you want something known to work, try this: . It is a link to Crucial's RAM finder tool. I have a feeling the stuff on Amazon is much cheaper than what Crucial wants to sell you. 209.131.76.183 (talk) 11:50, 10 July 2013 (UTC)