Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2013 June 5

= June 5 =

High data usage(?) with Wi-FI internet modem/hotspot
When I started editing Wikipedia my ISP was Unwired who used proprietary Cisco Systems wireless modems. (Model BWX110-351) Though rather slow (256 kbps?) I found it adequate for editing and other Internet uses, and rather cheap, A$30 month for 15 Gb, 3 Gb peak, 12 Gb off-peak (midnight to 4 PM). According to my records I never used much more than 5 Gb in total. Unwired was bought by Optus about 12 months ago and the Unwired network closed on 28 February 2013.

I have now taken up a contract with Virgin Mobile (A$29 month for 6 Gb) using an 'MF62' Wi-Fi modem. I find now that I am going through my allowance rather quicker than I though I would, I have used nearly 1.7 Gb in 6 days, and my 'month' is pro-rated to the 14th so less than 1.3 Gb left. I am already thinking of upgrading to the next level, ($39 for 12 Gb)

The Virgin WI-Fi modem appears to have a higher operating 'overhead' than I had with Unwired. My up/down loads are monitored using a software utility called 'Networx' from | SoftPerfect Research. Previously ( nn on Unwired) about 30 kb per hour was used if the system was 'idling' ie. connected to Internet but not editing/ downloading or Googling, now it appears that 450 Kb is typical.


 * 1) Can anyone let me know if this is a typical 'experience' with Wi-Fi modems.
 * 2) Is there any way I can reduce my usage? ie. closing any browsers/ pages that are not being actively used/read?
 * 3) The speed of the modem does not seem much different to what I had previously, which Networx measure at 32 Kbps at best, any way I can improve that? Note my signal strength seems to be rather variable, despite being close to a mobile phone antenna 'farm'. Typically 2 of 4 'bars.'

I am particularly interested in hearing from any other ex-Unwired users 220  of  Borg 22:50, 4 June 2013 (UTC)


 * For 2) I'd say you've got the right idea - definitely close any browsing sessions/utilities/etc. that you aren't currently using. --Yellow1996 (talk) 01:13, 5 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Ah someones 'in'! Must admit that I have a habit of having lots of web pages open, but on Unwired this seemed to have very little effect. I have certainly turned off automatic updates from the Steam gaming page, where I recently thought I was re-installing a game (Homefront) from a DVD, then found I had downloaded 3 GB! (Not of my own 'quota' fortunately!)


 * • Perhaps I am using a lot of bandwidth because I have only been on the net irregularly over the past 3 months? Possibly looking at a lot of graphic rich pages?
 * As for Networx, I actually found that my usage, at my 'Virgin' account page was somewhat higher than Networx said. Are there any utilities that reliably record your internet usage? 220  of  Borg 05:03, 5 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Indeed! ;) Well, those habits of yours could certainly be contributing to your data usage! As for some software to monitor your internet usage, the program suggested in this exchange sounds good (and there are other suggestions on the page) though I have not personally used any of them. --Yellow1996 (talk) 23:54, 5 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I have downloaded that program (Net Meter) and will give it a try. That Yahoo answer liunk you gave was 3 years ago, but they (Hoo Technologies) still seem to be supporting and updating their product. • Suggestions from other editors are still welcome. Yes it just seems a little quiet here, though I have been 'off-line' for 3 months! I'll be lucky if I have 1 GB left for the next 7/8 days! - 220  of  Borg 04:15, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Just had a look at installed updates and on 31 May I installed 30 updates, which may explain how I used 487 Mb that day. 220  of  Borg 04:28, 6 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Okay, I sure hope that program works out for you! And yeah, I remember a month or so ago we went around 2 days with almost no questions at all; I think traffic is climbing up again, though. As for your second point, I think you found your culprit (for that one day, that is!) :) --Yellow1996 (talk) 01:10, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

EATX Mounting-Holes Diagram
I'm designing a motherboard tray for a benchtop, and I've been trying to find a diagram of the mounting-holes for the EATX motherboard form-factor, but to no avail. Does anybody here know where to get a schematic or diagram of the mounting-holes for EATX motherboard? Just physically measuring an EATX motherboard is not enough precision for CNC machining. Thanx all. 27.104.215.238 (talk) 09:28, 5 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Apparently it is also know as "SSI-EEB". See Motherboard form factor guide at http://www.silverstonetek.com, which seems to have the info you need. See section 6 (not 5 as that is SSI-CEB) form factor. Nb Google is your friend, that is how I found this info, though I had to get the alternate name from a forum first! - 220  of  Borg 11:13, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Recovering my wireless password
I'm in the process of making some changes to my laptop, including a new operating system. Before the change, my laptop still connects to my wireless access point, but I'm not sure I can remember the password. Is there a way to retrieve the password in plain text from somewhere inside Windows Vista, before I lose it when change the OS. I am quite familiar with Linux (indeed a Linux distro will probably be the new OS) so a tool that will run from a live CD is a possibility if nothing exists in the Windows world. Astronaut (talk) 09:48, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, as long as you are an administrator on the Vista machine. First ensure you are connected to to the appropriate network, then go to the Network and Sharing Centre in the Control Panel. Find the network connection, right click and choose Status, then click Wireless Properties in the dialog box. From the next dialog, go to the Security tab. You should now be able to tick the box labelled 'Show Characters', et voila! Screenshots can be seen here. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 10:34, 5 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Physical access to a wireless router is usually enough to change a password, also. ¦ Reisio (talk) 12:46, 5 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeah; I think that with some routers, you can just reset it and then a default password can usually be found written on the bottom of the device (if not, call your ISP.) --Yellow1996 (talk) 23:57, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

I specifically don't want to reset it. I would then have to reconnect other devices and think of another secure password. My PC has remembered it, so I would prefer to try to get my PC to tell me what the password is. Astronaut (talk) 12:36, 6 June 2013 (UTC)


 * There is freeware such as WirelessKeyView (Web Site: http://www.nirsoft.net) that should reveal the stored password in Vista.   D b f i r s   17:07, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Advantage of dynamic type for the program
I understand that there is some advantages for developers to work with a dynamically typed language (more flexibility, less details). But, is there any advantage when it comes down to running the programs of a dynamically typed language? If I got it correctly, the compiler/interpreter will always have to guess what type something has. Wouldn't that imply that dynamic type is always a disadvantage when running the program? And why don't all languages offer the option to make type static? (declaring it). OsmanRF34 (talk) 12:46, 5 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Advantages for developers include not having to spend as much time or effort on a source to avoid potential flaws. For people who are perfect and have all the time they like, static will basically always be better. ¦ Reisio (talk) 12:52, 5 June 2013 (UTC)


 * In a statically typed language, you may end up writing redundant code to do the same thing with different types, or (as with C++ templates) having the compiler generate redundant machine code. Adding static typing to a dynamically typed language makes it more complicated; see KISS principle. Bobmath (talk) 15:16, 5 June 2013 (UTC)


 * The runtime system never "guesses". It has a list of candidates that fit (and fit correctly and usefully). It chooses the first one from the list, usually selecting in a clearly defined order such as the narrowest scope of definition first (i.e. if two nested items overlap in a namespace, the one from the nearest block will be used). If, and only if, it runs out of list without having found an acceptable candidate, it will fail with a run-time error of "unbound method name exception" or similar.
 * "Dynamic typing" is perhaps a misnomer for how this is done (it's a name more chosen for the apparent effect it gives). Much of it is still static, it's just a question of what is being scoped. If "duck typing" is in effect (don't read the WP article, it's awful), then the system just doesn't care about trying to statically match types of the object or class, instead it looks for the type of the method being used. If our dynamic " " object supports the necessary  method, then we're happy. This method has a name and a parameter signature that is (almost always, although I'm sure someone has built an exceptional case) defined statically. The list of places (i.e. classes, prototypes or objects) where this method might be found is dynamic, but the identity of each method (and thus whether it's compatible) was defined statically, early on. Andy Dingley (talk) 10:56, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Overseas video websites
What are the UK and Australian equivalents of YouTube? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.65.51.113 (talk) 13:08, 5 June 2013 (UTC)


 * What makes you think that there are UK and Australian equivalents? youtube.co.uk redirects to youtube.com, and what you see it adapted to your location. OsmanRF34 (talk) 13:19, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

The UK and Australia must have their own locally based video websites with content uploaded by their own citizens. For example, if I go to britishexamplewebsite.com and search for stand up comedy 2012 it will show me videos of British comedians doing stand up on British television. I'm tired of using YouTube and other American video websites aren't as massive. So I need overseas websites if someone can provide the information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.65.51.113 (talk) 04:15, 6 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Australians and Brits have full access to YouTube. It's the biggest and most well known. Why would they bother with anything else? Apart from some sites dedicated to a particular industry or subject, I'm not aware of any such sites in Australia. HiLo48 (talk) 04:20, 6 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Generally it's still just YouTube. However YouTube may infer some geolocation knowledge about who's using it (from IP lookup, or various ad tracking systems) and so change its behaviour to make it appear more local. Andy Dingley (talk) 10:58, 7 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I can assure you as a Brit that HiLo is correct. YouTube is dominant and must have something like 90% of the web traffic for videos, with the remaining 10% probably dominated by Twitter's Vine. Porn site traffic not included for obvious reasons.
 * Thanks ツ Jenova   20  (email) 11:59, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Music on Google Play
Music on Google Play has recently become available in Ireland. I downloaded an album on my Galaxy S3 phone. I can only play it using the google "Play music" app. Does this seem right? Should I not be able to play it using other apps? The album has been download and is stored on the phone- I don't need to be connected to the net to listen.

Thanks Stanstaple (talk) 20:20, 5 June 2013 (UTC)


 * There’s probably some way to play it without using Google software directly, but I wouldn’t expect them to make it easy. ¦ Reisio (talk) 21:06, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Is your problem that you can't find the files, or that you can't open them? If the former, try looking in sdcard-->Android-->data-->com.google.android.music-->cache-->music or sdcard-->Android-->data-->com.google.android.music-->files-->music. Your phone may need to be rooted for you to do this. If the latter, what happens when you try to open them? HenryFlower 04:03, 6 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Purely an educated guess - Isn't that a DRM issue to prevent you from copying the music onto multiple websites for piracy after buying? I always heard Itunes did something similar...Thanks ツ Jenova   20  (email) 08:34, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Stan appears to have lost interest. 180.148.3.13 (talk) 14:40, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Internet Explorer 8 in Windows 7
How does one get IE8 in Windows 7? When I bought my Windows 7 laptop in November 2011, it had IE8 preinstalled; after using IE9 at work, I decided I definitely wasn't going to use it on my own computer, so I've always stayed with IE8, but last night IE10 downloaded itself onto my computer, and in attempting to revert to IE8 I accidentally uninstalled the browser entirely. I looked around online for download instructions, finding it through http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/internet-explorer-8-details.aspx and http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/internet-explorer/ie-8-worldwide-languages, but both times I downloaded the Vista version (the newest available) and attempted to install it, I got a message of "Internet Explorer 8 is not supported on this operating system". Since it's been supported for the last 20 months, I don't believe the message; can anyone suggest a place where I can find one that might work? 70.239.90.25 (talk) 22:48, 5 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Looks like you cannot download IE8 for windows 7 from the Microsoft website. And after searching around, it doesn't seem like there is an easy way for you to downgrade. In the meantime, you can use a different browser like Firefox or one of these if you don't want to use IE10. --Yellow1996 (talk) 00:08, 6 June 2013 (UTC)


 * It's actually easy to revert. You click on the start button, type in appwiz.cpl and then click on "View installed updates." You scroll down to "Windows Internet Explorer 10," right-click on it, and choose "Uninstall."


 * If you have accidentally removed Internet Explorer from your computer, you click on the start button, type in appwiz.cpl and then click on "Turn Windows features on or off." There is a check box that says "Internet Explorer 8" and you check that to enable IE on your computer. If you just deleted the shortcut from the desktop or something and have mistakenly concluded that means it is uninstalled, verify that there is a file named iexplore in the C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer or C:\Program Files (x86)\Internet Explorer folder. If there is a file by that name there, it means it's still on your computer.&mdash;Best Dog Ever (talk) 00:16, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * [same person, now using a different network] I have Firefox; that's what I used to post the first message. My objections to IE10 are formatting and minor functions — for example, I use lots of tabs, so putting URL and tabs on the same line (like both 9 and 10 do) is very unhelpful, and I use the CTRL+up or down arrow function to scroll by paragraphs, but this doesn't work in IE10.  I went through Control Panel\Programs\Programs and Features and told it to uninstall IE10, following the process I'd take if I wanted to uninstall a computer game; I figured that I'd then simply be able to resume IE8, but that didn't happen.  The only IE box through appwiz.cpl is one for "Internet Explorer 10"; since IE is my default browser, if I turn it off and then click a link somewhere else (e.g. in an offline document), I get a message warning me that there's no way to open the webpage.  The iexplore file exists in the places Best Dog Ever said to look, but it's IE10 again.  I know others with Windows 7 computers who would be happy to help if possible; is it likely that we'd be able to disable IE10 on another computer, put IE8 on a flash drive, and install it successfully on my computer?  I'm sorry for making this a computing help desk, but I didn't know where else to go.  98.223.199.119 (talk) 00:47, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I was able to just now install and then uninstall IE 10 in a virtual Windows 7 machine from the "View installed updates" screen. It went straight back to IE 8. In any case, there's an easier way. Try this: Start &rarr; All Programs &rarr; System Tools &rarr; System Restore. Then, choose a date before you installed IE 10. System Restore will revert any programs to the state they were at the date you choose, but does not affect any of your other files.&mdash;Best Dog Ever (talk) 02:48, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but I never thought of a system restore. It worked great, and things are back to normal.  Thank you, and again I'm sorry for wasting everyone's time.  98.223.199.119 (talk) 03:46, 6 June 2013 (UTC)