Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2013 September 27

= September 27 =

Google Chrome
What is Google Chrome's revenue model? Every second thing you download on the Internet, you have to make sure you don't have it piggybacked onto it by accident. Now they're running ads in practically any TV program - no legitimate company does that any more; it's reserved for free credit report scams, pay-to-win video games, overpriced insurance companies that want to spy on your car. So what's their game? The NSA can't possibly be paying them that much, can it? Wnt (talk) 06:48, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
 * [[Image:U.S. Federal Spending.png|thumb|Using the discretionary budget alone, the United States could opt to re-purchase [[controlling interest]] in the ten largest corporations in the world, every single year, charitably hand over the corporations back to the original owners, and re-purchase the same thing next year. * Huh? I think you slipped some decimals.  Apple Inc alone has a 415 billion market cap.  A few of those would break the budget. Wnt (talk) 16:32, 27 September 2013 (UTC) **Controlling interest is, in practice, much less than the total market capitalization.  Nimur (talk) 18:17, 27 September 2013 (UTC)]]
 * Evidently you aren't paying attention, quantitatively, to the relative sizes of government and private sectors in the twenty-first century! Nimur (talk) 12:59, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Why would the NSA pay them when they can already take their information for free?
 * Their Chrome strategy could be as simple as offering it for free. Google makes money from advertising after all. If they have a higher amount of users on their browser, then they can control how much advertising they make money from and how much advertising the customer sees. Google make money either way. Thanks ツ Jenova   20  (email) 08:38, 27 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Their revenue model is simple:
 * Provide a browser
 * Monitor (with varying privacy safeguards) what people do with the browser
 * Target adverts to them which are likely to be relevant to their interests.
 * Whether (as a consumer) you see this as a problem or a service (since relevant adverts can actally be useful) is up to you. I'm sure there used to be some way of showing which targeted categories they'd put you in, but I can't remember it offhand now...
 * Also, it allows them to ensure that their online platforms work well on their own browser, and hopefully force the competition to make their browsers better. Since their entire business is the internet, more people browsing more websites more quickly is a very good thing for them, and making the bowsers beter helps a lot with that.  And it helps with brand recognition, which encourages you to use their other services if you have Chrome installed (giving them even more data to tailor the ads with). MChesterMC (talk) 09:08, 27 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeah I've noticed this too. Just the other day I discovered that I had Chrome installed from who-knows-when, which came with who-knows-what... Actually I just went and checked; I have apparently had Chrome since August 2009! Does that mean it's been autoupdating this whole time or do I just have an ancient version? If the former, then I'm going to uninstall since I am unlikely to ever use it. -- .Yellow1996. (ЬMИED¡) 16:18, 27 September 2013 (UTC)


 * How does someone using Google Chrome have ads targeted to them based on their interests? Wnt (talk) 16:33, 27 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Google sees what kinds of things you search for etc. then throws up ads based on that data. IIRC they only collect this data while you are logged into your google account. This kind of goes with the ads that target you based on your location (collected by seeing your IP address; so I guess you could avoid that by using a proxy.) -- .Yellow1996. (ЬMИED¡) 17:24, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, Google does that. However, the Chrome privacy policy specifically states that "If you use Chrome to access other Google services, such as using the search engine on the Google homepage or checking Gmail, the fact that you are using Chrome does not cause Google to receive any special or additional personally identifying information about you." If you bother reading the terms of service, there isn't anything much objectionable about the information that is transmitted to Google, and those features are optional. As for what the business model is - well, considering that they release the source, it was likely more about control than direct revenue, but now that ChromeOS is a thing I guess they do have a business model Effovex (talk) 02:02, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I think the information google receives when you connect to google services is not the main concern, since it's your choice to connect to them. More interesting is the information google receives when connecting to non-google services. For example, if you use autofill, google receives the hashed URLs of any web form that you visit, and whether you have entered anything in the form, regardless of whether you used autofill for that.
 * If the Chrome spellcheck feature is enabled, everything you type on websites, forums, wikipedia ... is sent to google. Not only what you decide to submit, mind you, everything you have typed, with all the corrections, rewriting and deletions. It's pretty much a keylogger for Chrome... Not sure if people realise that. Ssscienccce (talk) 20:32, 28 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Huh... didn't know that until now! ;) Though I don't use Chrome so I guess I'm "safe"; from Google, at least as long as I'm not logged into my Google account... -- .Yellow1996. (ЬMИED¡) 21:10, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
 * This is not true. Chrome spell-checks locally. They recently added the ability to use a web service for improved spelling suggestions, but it's off by default, of course. -- BenRG (talk) 08:34, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, okay. Like I said I don't use Chrome so I wouldn't know. I'm aware that pretty much everything "spies on you" these days, though. -- .Yellow1996. (ЬMИED¡) 23:10, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The above is mostly ill-informed nonsense. Chrome is just another open-source web browser similar to Firefox (which is also largely funded by Google). It "spies on you" in the same way as all other major browsers, by reporting crash statistics for example (if you let it). Chrome doesn't need to pay its own way because Google can spend money from other sources on its development. Given the importance of the web in Google's business and the fact that it's frankly awful as an application platform right now, there's obvious long-term interest for Google in producing its own web browser instead of just hoping other vendors will implement the new web standards it needs. Your activities on google.com using any web browser are logged on the server side, just like virtually any other major web site (Wikipedia is a rare exception) and most minor web sites as well. Google has a better privacy policy than most of them. -- BenRG (talk) 08:34, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, with a bit of thought, some of the Google projects probably come out of being the kind of company to allow people to work on whatever cool thing they want to do ("20% time"), and releasing these because (1) it makes the company look good to customers (brand recognition, and genrally being a useful one stop shop), and (2) it makes the company look good to potential employees. MChesterMC (talk) 10:06, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The issues arise when a company is always trying to be 20% cooler than the rest... -- .Yellow1996. (ЬMИED¡) 23:10, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Locked SD Card
I recently opened a new San disk SDHC card from its cover and tried to write data to it. Both Ubuntu and windows & says that my card is locked. I use a laptop with built in SD card reader. Searching the internet shows that the tab does not block writing by any electrical means and that the reader senses only the position of the tab. Is it the same for ALL SD cards?. has anyone here some experience with Sony laptop on board SD card readers? 117.231.49.142 (talk) 14:17, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) I tried putting the lock tab in both positions and the result is the same.
 * 2) While sliding the tab several times, some sort of thin wire like piece dislodged from the slit into which the tab is set it could have been just dust.


 * Sounds like a bad SD card to me, I'd try to return/exchange it. It could also be a bad card reader, though, so be sure to try the SD card in another device first. StuRat (talk) 10:57, 28 September 2013 (UTC)


 * OP here; While searching the internet, I found various solutions like blowing air into the reader, sticking clear/reflective tape etc. Didn't work for me. Since a new SD card is quite costly and this card was bought a long time ago (saw it lying around last week), I bought a cheap SD card reader (USB) and the card works now. So it is a reader problem. Saw some similar complaints about laptop SD card readers in various forums. 117.232.131.109 (talk) 11:55, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

StuRat (talk) 05:57, 1 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Does the tab still lock in position properly? I'm thinking the "thin wire like piece" may have been a spring to hold the tab in place. --220  of  Borg 23:29, 28 September 2013 (UTC)


 * The tab can still be set in both positions. It was probably dust or paper piece. The card doesn't go that far in into the new cheap card reader :) 117.231.148.146 (talk) 06:24, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

usb standard question
was there a good reason at the time of inventing the first USB standard, to make it such that a usb male can plug in easily and unobtrusively into a female ethernet jack? 178.48.114.143 (talk) 15:04, 27 September 2013 (UTC)


 * It was probably just a coincidence; I can't think of any good reason they would do that. -- .Yellow1996. (ЬMИED¡) 17:29, 27 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Well there is a reason, for example external plastic cases for laptops or computers might not have to be redesignned: just the ethernet could be replaced by USB in the same location on the motherborad. Was this the thinking?  Likewise maybe some kind of tooling fit both.  Like, "what horse's ass came up with the railway guage" parable... 178.48.114.143 (talk) 23:03, 27 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Ah, I hadn't thought of that; but now that I think about it, that seems a very plausable reason. Minor changes like that can really effect production costs/management in those sorts of industries (having to modify/replace machines and/or tools on the production line etc), and a design which allowed them to be able to keep using the old plastic shells unaltered was probably an appealing one. -- .Yellow1996. (ЬMИED¡) 04:00, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I doubt that, USB was introduced in the mid-1990s and not meant to replace the ethernet connection. USb has replaced parallel and serial ports and the PS/2 connectors for mice and keyboards, none of the have the same size as the USB port. I can't think of any device where USB replacing the ethernet connector would have been the only difference between the old and new model, at least not something the designers of the USB standards would have had in mind at the time. Probably just ergonomics (not too small or too big) and coincidence. Ssscienccce (talk) 15:48, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
 * But, REALLY a coincidence? Try plugging it in there - it slides in PERFECTLY and feels like it belongs there, no wiggle room, just fits perfectly.  Either horrific design or there's some reason to do it this way... 178.48.114.143 (talk) 21:59, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I just found a dimensioned drawing of a USB plug: . It is 12mm wide, so it could easly be a coincidence because they picked a nice round number. K ati e R  (talk) 12:26, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
 * According to our Modular connector article, the 8P8C connectors used for rj45 are 11.68 mm wide. So the USB design is wider. Can't find the specification for the 8P8C "female" receptacle, probably because the IEC standards are copyrighted and are sold with a license agreement... Ssscienccce (talk) 19:04, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
 * That probably explains the nice fit. I would expect a little wiggle room for the 8P8C connector because it is clipped, not friction-fit. The slightly wider USB plug then fits, but tightly enough to stay in place pretty well. K ati e R  (talk) 19:27, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

DON'T do this especially on a running PC. Remember the outside of a USB plug is all metal, the Modular connector Ethernet connector has exposed 'pins' inside, doing this on live equipment will likely cause a short.-μ-220  of  Borg 00:03, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

CMD unicode issues in using Pywikipediabot
Hi. I just installed the pywikipediabot framework, and am past the user config and login steps. (No, the bot is not for en-wp, and yes I have a bot flag.) The problem I'm facing is that neither cmd nor bash (git bash) seem to support unicode fonts. So while I can input non-ascii characters, I can't actually see them in the CLI. cmd shows boxes and bash shows question marks instead. I've tried adding fonts for cmd using regedit per but the added font (Lohit Devanagari) doesn't show up in the properties even after the reboot.

Also, I couldn't find anything about fixed width fonts for indic scripts anywhere. Are there any in existence that are freely available and which would work with cmd/bash?--Siddhartha Ghai (talk) 21:41, 27 September 2013 (UTC)


 * This seems to be a deficiency of Win32 console (not of cmd.exe or bash, which use it for its display). Firstly, have you taken the steps described at meta:Manual:Pywikibot/Windows? Next, you may have better results forcing the utf-8 code page using the chcp command (to the unsupported-but-allegedly-works page 65001), apparently by doing:

chcp 65001 > nul && python yourscript.py


 * -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 22:05, 27 September 2013 (UTC)


 * I've seen mw:Manual:Pywikibot/Windows and tried the steps. It doesn't help. And I've tried the chcp thingy. That doesn't help either.--Siddhartha Ghai (talk) 04:50, 28 September 2013 (UTC)


 * This isn't a code page issue. You just need a compatible font. Consolas supports a lot of scripts, but I can't help you with indic scripts except to point you to KB247815.
 * You could bypass the issue by using mintty and bash instead, with the Cygwin code page set to utf-8. I can't guarantee that Pywikibot will auto-detect this case and use utf-8, though, unless you also use a Cygwin version of Python. You could also try IDLE. -- BenRG (talk) 22:25, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Installing a new graphics card
If this isn't the right place for this, could you please point me to a place where I could get help?

I want a new graphics card, but I'm not great when it comes to computer hardware. My concerns are manyfold. I want a new card because: I know why it overheats; it's because I haven't cleaned it properly in forever. But to clean it, I have to get it out, which is something I've never actually managed to do myself. And I figure if I'm taking it out - well, its life is probably shortened already by these overheats, so why not replace it entirely? I really hate going inside the guts of a computer, so maybe this will forestall having to open it up again.
 * When this computer was built for me, the graphics card was the one old component from my old computer that got re-used.
 * The old card now overheats so much that I have to play everything on lowest possible graphics settings in order for my computer to run without restarting itself.

But I have several lack-of-knowledge problems, and I'm hoping you can help.


 * I can't figure out how to get this card out. It's an Nvidia GT430 and apparently it clips in somewhere at the bottom, but...Well, I can't figure it. I tried Googling but I get nothing but endless reviews from 2011. I'd be surprised if anyone knew offhand, but where could I find out how to actually get the card out?
 * I have been informed in the past that some cards plug into the computer's power source while some just draw their power from the motherboard. I know my card doesn't plug into anything other than the motherboard. I'd very much like it if my new card was the same. I'd also want it to draw a similar level of power, since I don't know how much extra power my computer can spare.
 * I don't know if there will be any compatibility issues with...well, anything. With regards to new cards, is there anything I should be looking out for? What might it be incompatible with, if anything?
 * Are there any other concerns I should have when choosing a new graphics card? Any way I can find something that would suit me? Any suggestions?

Thank you for your time. 86.181.64.123 (talk) 23:04, 27 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Here is the product page from Nvidia. Unfortunately, the support pages for Nvidia haven't been much help, wanting to redirect me to the PC/motherboard manufacturer; therefore some of what follows will be best guesses. Before starting work inside the case, make sure your PC is off and unplugged from the wall.  Be wary of static electricity, which can seriously mess up the insides of a PC. Touching a metal part of the case is usually sufficient, or you can get an earthing strap for your wrist.
 * I'm assuming you have a desktop PC because you say you upgraded everything except the graphics card some time ago.  Graphics cards are installed inside the PC case, and your's looks like this.  It should be quite easy to remove by undoing the screw holding the shiny metal plate to the case of your PC.  This video seems to cover all the main points, including any locking mechanism.  There are plenty of other videos, if the one I linked to doesn't suit you.
 * I also came across this video about fixing the fan on a GT 430 card. maybe that is the problem in your case.  Astronaut (talk) 09:59, 28 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Or you can do the quick fix I use for overheating: Remove the case and point a real fan at the guts. That cools it down nicely. StuRat (talk) 10:52, 28 September 2013 (UTC)


 * I have to ask the if OP they know what sort of card 'slot' this card plugs into? If it is an Accelerated Graphics Port (AGP). I know that some of these had clips on, or attached to the actual socket or Motherboard. These lock into a tab or extension on the edge of the card.(see picture 1) You need to push a tab aside, or pull a spring loaded plunger out of the hole/L-slot to release the card.(see picture 2). Another type of lock clip HERE. Click on pictures to enlarge. - 220  of  Borg 13:09, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

1) One main point about a card is that it needs to be physically compatible with the motherboard it is to be plugged into, i.e. has the correct type of edge connector to suit the motherboard. 2) There is enough 'slot' space (some cards are very thick and take up TWO card slot spaces) 3) Electrical compatibility, it works on the voltages the motherboards slot can provide.(AGP has 3.3 and 1.5volt slots for example, keyed to prevent the wrong type being inserted). 4) Then make sure it has the video outputs that you want/need. Looking at the pics of the your actual card it is well equipped with VGA, HDMI and DVI-I output. Unless you need DisplayPort something similar would cover most needs. --220  of  Borg 14:14, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Seems the type of card doesn't really matter lock-wise and yours appear to be PCI Express anyway. Other lock types HERE., HERE. and HERE.
 * The tip Astronaut gives seems a good one: youtube has many videos on cleaning computers and replacing parts. Also, I would recommend cleaning the card and testing it before you decide on buying a new one. Gain some experience first, you could say. Should it go wrong and the card get damaged (highly unlikely btw), at least it's only an old card you planned to replace anyway. Ssscienccce (talk) 16:14, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your help, everyone. I'll try to get the card out in a week or two using that video as a guide. I still think I want to upgrade the card, though. I'll try to find info about possible candidates for upgrades online. Thanks again!
 * Edit: In case anyone was interested, I'm probably not going to just try to clean it because if something goes wrong I'll be without a computer - and, in fact, without any way of ordering a new card. If I get a new one, then if one of them goes wrong I can probably fall back on using the other. I'm also not confident about taking apart and cleaning a card...I know that video made it look easy, but it just seems like doing more stuff means more risk. I can't really take the side of my computer off and point a fan at it, and probably wouldn't anyway; bodies have skin for a reason, just as computers have cases.
 * Don't take this the wrong way, but if you can't do any of that I can't see how you plan to install a new card. Installing a new video card isn't that hard but it does require some level of competence. If you can't take your card out and at least look at the HSF and put it back safely and feel unable to learn, you likely lack that competence so probably need to ask someone else to help.
 * (Bear in mind if you are really likely to damage the card in doing so, you're probably not that much less likely to damage the motherboard or simply knock something around that will require re-seating. And no one said anything about taking apart and cleaning the card. For starters I don't even know what you mean 'taking apart'. If you meant taking apart the HSF, I don't think anyone was suggesting that you had to do that' Astronaut's link not withstanding, which actually just showed taking the fan off anyway. I don't know what sort of HSF is on your card, and it sounds like you don't either, but a brush will often be enough to at least make the device usable again. And of course compressed air another option if it isn't. Vacuuming is somewhat less effective than compressed air and perhaps slightly risky, but not really much. Taking apart the HSF or more commonly just take the fan out of the HSF is often useful, but often isn't essential. In any case, you have no idea until you've at least seen the HSF and so got an idea of what the problem is, you have no idea what may be needed. In fact it's unclear to me if you know if the fan is even moving. )
 * BTW, the locking mechanism will depend mostly on the motherboard not the card.
 * Nil Einne (talk) 12:46, 29 September 2013 (UTC)


 * I probably shouldn't be answering this fifteen minutes before my third late night in a row, but here goes...I'm not as incompetent as I implied, but the problem is that when I try to be competent, people assume I am much, much more competent than I actually am. I've observed replacing graphics cards three times now...But...You know what, never mind. I'll just run this thing into the ground and buy a whole new computer. I'm clearly too fucked up to handle this. 86.181.64.123 (talk) 13:12, 29 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Let me repeat my suggestion that you remove the case and point a proper fan at it. This requires no special skills, is unlikely to damage it, and is almost certain to fix the overheating problem.  Sure, it looks ugly, but that's a small price for a working PC, if you ask me.  You can put some type of a cover over it, when not in use, to cover the ugliness. StuRat (talk) 05:53, 1 October 2013 (UTC)