Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2015 March 31

= March 31 =

LibreOffice / MS Office interoperability 101
I often have to make elementary use of spreadsheets, for which I use LibreOffice Calc. Let's say that the contents of my cells B3, B4, and B5 are 4532, 97.6 and =B3*B4 respectively. I save the file (in ODS format) and mail it to a coworker, who opens it in Excel and finds that the content of B5 is not =B3*B4 but is instead the product thereof (442323.2). Making no change to the file, I use Calc to save it in XLSX format instead, and email the result; in cell B5, my coworker finds =B3*B4 as originally intended.

I'm not happy about this, less because I have anything against XLSX format than because any time I use Calc to save to it, Calc warns that "This document may contain formatting or content that cannot be saved in the currently selected file format", a warning that in my experience can be safely ignored but that might encompass the occasional actual risk. (Can't Calc, or some utility, check whether a file does have such formatting or content, and if it does then identify it?)

One way around actual/potential problems would be for me to install MS Office; but it's expensive, I'm stingy, and it would require WINE and probably be slow. Another would be for my coworkers to install LibreOffice; but it's free (in both senses) and therefore the IT people who control the computers are deeply suspicious of it: a request to install would probably involve a written application, committee meetings, etc: yawn. Any tips for avoiding problems, or (more likely) links to web pages that describe these? (Unfortunately I lack the spreadsheet vocab for successful googling. I mean, if Excel has converted =B3*B4 to 442323.2 then I suppose it has [verb]ed the formula, and I've no idea of what the verb should be.) -- Hoary (talk) 01:11, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I've just tried this (using both Libre Office 4.4.1.2 and Excel 2010 on the same computer), and when I open the .ods file with Excel I get the message "Excel found unreadable content in 'Untitled 1.ods'. Do you want to recover the contents of this workbook?..." If I select "Yes" then it opens the file, but, as you describe, the formula has been replaced by the value. Does your colleague get the same message? Googling it suggests that this is a common problem, which seems to be due to Excel being excessively picky about the XML inside the .ods.  I didn't find any obvious solution, but some deeper searching might have better results.  AndrewWTaylor (talk) 11:38, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The root of the problem is that Microsoft has a cash cow in the Office Suite and there is no way they will give it up without a fight. So, they will not play nice with a free competitor. Just the fact the Excel comprehends an ODS file is a miracle. It is up to the free product (OpenOffice, LibreOffice, StarOffice ... all basically the same product) to read and write Excel format files. That is why you must save in XLSX format. As for what is not compatible: Graphics (including charts) are generally not translated well from OpenOffice to Excel. As for how to fix the problem: You have to fix it yourself. You have to save in XLSX format. It is a painful losing battle to try and change the world around you. 209.149.113.207 (talk) 12:01, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you both. I am very much aware of the financial incentive that MS has for making OpenOffice, etc, seem as flaky as possible. (After all, compatibility with OpenOffice, etc, is not an MS Office sales point.) But I thought I'd put aside MS's motivation. (And imaginably it's not even relevant here.) The particular file has no charts or other graphics, and the formulae include nothing more complex than ROUND. If forced to think of something in it that might be odd, I'd concede that various cells have formulae involving cells whose rows and columns are seemingly unrelated (so B28 might be "=B27*N4"), not that I'd have thought this would be problematic. -- Hoary (talk) 13:58, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * When you say your 'coworker' is this a college in the same company or are you freelance? There certainly are still some IT people that don't want to tread into unfamiliar territory, especially if the company has not moved on to Linux servers. They just don't understand Linux. It may be worth you going above their heads to the Executive (those that  look at the bottom line and profit) and suggest that their IT people need to update their skills to save their  business money in the long run. Executives are not idiots (that is why they are in that position of responsibility) but until they are informed that they are employing IT dinosaurs how are they to know? Trying to find compatibility with Linux & MS is like trying to explain to my wife why she needs to leave the toilet seat 'up' after she she has used it! Never the twain shall meet.--Aspro (talk) 15:12, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * It's the same ... institution. Which, if it matters, possesses, uses and indeed depends on Linux servers. I'm one kind of employee, and I can use any kind of computer I care to pay for. The other kind of employee can only use the one kind of computer that is provided. The latter is Windows, with bog standard software. (In a rare concession to sense, filename extensions are revealed. But that's about as far as the independent thinking goes.) We rarely have compatibility problems between my LibreOffice Write and their MS Word. The twain meet every day. Let's not turn this into a caricature. (LibreOffice Impress and MS PowerPoint: that's a different story. Luckily, I only rarely want to use either.) I can think of few surer ways not to have LibreOffice installed on these Windows computers than to inform the execs that they are employing IT dinosaurs, particularly when these "dinosaurs" repeatedly demonstrate that they understand Linux, LibreOffice, etc, very well. Anyway, my question is about MS Office, not about this or that operating system. -- Hoary (talk) 15:33, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
 * A better forum for this issue: http://ask.libreoffice.org/en/questions/ --  Gadget850talk 06:38, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Leaning to manage a server on the cloud
How can you start learning to manage a server hosted on the cloud? It would be one like those of AWS or DigitalOcean, where they manage the DNS and hardware, but not the OS.

Both companies are cheap enough to not have to worry about joining them and start playing with the server. I'd like to have some recommendations of basic literature, and a recommendation as to which OS use. AWS offers a broad number of choices. I'd discard only Windows, which is more expensive. But they have CentOS, FreeBSD, Ubuntu, Debian. DigitalOcean offers Debian, Ubuntu, CentOS, and FreeBSD.

I am a Linux user for some time, having some experience with Debian and Ubuntu. --Nowsome (talk) 19:28, 31 March 2015 (UTC):


 * Oh. A simple question to ask but with no simple answer. Therefore, I will just offer my gut instinct. Debian is a rock solid stable server OS. Ubuntu is a fork of this. FreeBSD is great too etc. I will leave it to other editors here, to say that focusing on Debian is the better thing to do. With that experience under your belt you can move on easily– should the need arise.--Aspro (talk) 21:05, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Five Reasons to use Debian as a Server--Aspro (talk) 22:09, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Well you get a virtual machine, which will have a management interface, perhaps provided by Linux. You should get access to a way to set up the initial config, and boot image, and then get access to a console as you turn it on. On a course I did there was free access to the Amazon cloud with ability to create 100 server images for a month.  You should be able to rent a cloud service for a month and try it out. Linux is low cost, but Windows Server is more widely known.  But you will have to license it of you want to keep Windows. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 11:03, 1 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Think, there you have it -do what Graeme Bartlett suggests. Jump in and get some hands on experience. Don't be afraid of making bad decisions at the outset. It is only by experience one learns to differentiate what is right for 'you' and your needs. Other peoples needs may be different. Be prepared to waste at little time exploring, as there are no short cuts on the cloud where the technology is advancing so quickly.--Aspro (talk) 20:18, 1 April 2015 (UTC)