Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2016 September 7

= September 7 =

Are some computer keys remnants from long ago??
I most especially want to know if this is true of the Break key or the Scroll lock key. Any others?? Georgia guy (talk) 14:37, 7 September 2016 (UTC)


 * The pause/break, scroll lock, and SysRq keys are all generally regarded as vestigial nowadays; I think our articles on those keys cover their original use and current status pretty well. The application key and insert key are also starting to disappear from keyboards, but those at least still have some kind of consistent use. -165.234.252.11 (talk) 18:57, 7 September 2016 (UTC)


 * If I may ask a supplementary question - how do modern word processing / text editor applications switch between insert and overtype mode without an "insert" key? Or do people just not use overtype mode and delete the text they don't want instead? Tevildo (talk) 20:03, 8 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes, the latter. You can just use the mouse to highlight lots of text and then hit the delete key or backspace (or just start typing the new text) to delete it, so there's really no need for an overtype mode.  I occasionally find, much to my annoyance, that I have somehow been put into overtype mode and have been wiping out my previous words while writing.  Undo (CTRL-Z) doesn't much help here, in that it may bring back the old text, but only by deleting the new text. StuRat (talk) 02:42, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Not sure about the others, but the SysRq key is still in wide use. Tigraan Click here to contact me 15:47, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Don't forget the compose key and AltGr, which we used on SPARCStations! The more time you spend working with weird computers, the more variations of keyboard layout you will encounter.  Computers (and stand-alone keyboard products) are sometimes built for specific applications or customers; or for international markets; or for unusual system softwares.  There are zillions of variants on the theme.  I would not term them "obsolete" - it is more accurate to say that some keys are not commonly used on general-purpose or retail-market computer systems.  An excellent example of this: many point-of-sale "cash register"-type systems are still built with physical keys - I saw a restaurant point-of-sale computer last week that had a hamburger-key - and it was brand-new hardware!
 * Nimur (talk) 21:52, 7 September 2016 (UTC)


 * I've indeed rarely seen a compose key (I saw them on SPARCstations too), which is a pity, as it's a really useful key. I always configure my system so that one of the less useful keys acts as a compose key. AltGr is common wherever people frequently need accented or other special characters, which is the case in most of Europe. PiusImpavidus (talk) 09:26, 8 September 2016 (UTC)


 * [[File:Space-cadet.jpg|thumb|right|200 px|The Space-cadet has "super" and "hyper" special keys, along with regular keys like the $$[ M/\mu/\geq] $$ key. ]]I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for, but if you're interested in strange keys on computer keyboards, it doesn't get much better than the space-cadet keyboard! SemanticMantis (talk) 16:16, 8 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Old games use these keys, I still play Dungeon Keeper 2 which uses insert and delete for rotate and zoom. I also use overtype mode when editing code and data files, and when creating data-driven code generators so I hope that doesn't go away!. — PhilHibbs | talk 14:18, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Remove a keyboard shorcut command (Apple)
How do I stop a command shortcut from working? Specifically, I would like to do nothing (I have never used it on purpose even once, and sometimes mis-invoke it when intending to hit ). I am using El Capitan. I tried exploring System Preferences → Keyboard, but saw nothing in there helpful and a Google search failed. Thanks--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 22:42, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Wow, that's an unusual request! As a "work-around", you can assign  to the Launchpad task for hiding the dock (or similar - there are lots of non-intrusive actions you can assign that shortcut to trigger), which turns that keystroke sequence into a UI action that might be less intrusive to your workflow... meanwhile, I'll see if I can find out any way to do what you're really trying to accomplish!  Nimur (talk) 23:06, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Hey Nimur. Thanks for looking. I had no idea the request was unusual. I guess people don't think in terms of turning off commands. I've never seen any use for the hide command though. Meanwhile, can you walk me through, say assigning the command instead to the "Launchpad task for hiding the dock". In attempting to reassign it, I went to the system preferences → keyboard → shortcuts, with keyboard highlighted from the left hand window, but only see in there selections like "move focus to the menu bar" and a bunch of others. I then tried highlighting services, and assigned cmd+h to "add contact" (though I don't even know what that does) but when I then performed the command, it still hid the window (so I am guessing the assignment I made only invokes in some particular context).--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 00:13, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Indeed, I haven't forgot about your question... before I try to answer it any deeper, I'm conducting a little bit of homework to make sure everything I provide is correct. I'm not sure who "owns" the keyboard shortcut handling logic (the app or the operating system or some other software piece) - once I have that figured out, I'll report back with some more ideas.
 * Nimur (talk) 16:06, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
 * It seems that your request is not currently supported, because this specific key shortcut is provided in the application layer. You can intentionally create a keyboard shortcut conflict (which is what I was suggesting above), but that's not exactly a supported configuration (...well, it comes with a few problematic asterisks and footnotes).  Here's some reading material: Mac keyboard shortcuts and custom shortcuts...  I found that by assigning  to a dock action, I could override the default system behavior.  However, my procedure is not "officially documented" anywhere, so it's sort of "try-at-your-own-risk."
 * If this feature is something you really want, you can file an enhancement request at the Apple Developer page.
 * Nimur (talk) 17:22, 11 September 2016 (UTC)