Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2018 July 27

= July 27 =

Networked energy meters
What are the common issues arising in Web enabled Energy Management System of networked energy meters and what is the solution or how to troubleshoot them without Schneider manual?

What are the different types of problems issues troubles that can arise in a functioning energy monitoring system composed of 30 energy meters connected to feeders transformers in a utility .The meters are Schneider make Powerlogic ION8600 and ION8650 and connected via network to a server with Stuxureware software.What can be problems in the network hardware infrastructure GPS NTP 100 system server or invalid data in a client machine for an IT specialist.How to identify solve the problems or troubleshoot the problems and how to identify networking related issues that can be solved by an IT engineer and what problems here are electrical electronic instrumentation related.Please don't give Scneider links but practical guidance cum advice.What are regular maintenance activity for the Struxureware server GPS NTP 100 system and the networking infrastructure.What are identifiable trobles and how to shoot them.45.120.17.7 (talk) 10:38, 27 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Just curious: are you expecting some team of experts to come here and write a manual for you...? --CiaPan (talk) 11:06, 27 July 2018 (UTC)


 * I troubleshoot this sort of problem on a regular basis, but 30 meters? Whoever installed such a system didn't know what they were doing (unless it was a pilot system to evaluate the meters before going large scale). It doesn't make a lot of sense to install smart meters unless you are installing thousands of them.


 * You also failed to specify what kind of network connection. RS-232? RS-485? 10Base-T Ethernet? 57.6 kbps modem? Not that I can troubleshoot any of them without going on site....


 * This is all the sort of thing any IT specialist can fix -- until he has to open the meter. There are voltages in there that can be fatal. Send an IT expert and an electrician if the meter needs to be opened. I wouldn't bother sending an instrumentation expert unless the IT expert and electrician call for one. It's pretty much impossible to install a Schneider Powerlogic wrong. Any issues are probably in the network, not the bits that sense the power. --Guy Macon (talk) 11:33, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
 * You can't open the meter. No-one can. It's usually illegal to do so, certainly illegal to reconnect an opened meter. Even the electricity utilities or the meter operating authority (often not the same body) can't do this without significant paperwork to recertify the meter. In most cases this means that meters have to be re-certified in their factory, and can only be installed (not serviced) on site. Any servicing has to be done by swapping it for a new, certified, one. (Obviously local rules vary) Andy Dingley (talk) 12:57, 27 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Sorry for being unclear. By "open the meter" I meant "open whatever access panels are required to get at the phone line, RS232, and ethernet jacks on the back of the meter" not "crack open the case". I wouldn't want an IT guy without an electrician helping him to try to get at those connections; he would be too close to lethal voltages. --Guy Macon (talk) 15:50, 27 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Can't see why you'd want to ignore h people who supply something. I'd have thought the primary check would be that the total electricity used was very nearly the same as the sum of the various meters. If it isn't you might be able to meter individual lines especially where usage has changed a lot. And on that point you might be able to spot someone growing cannabis for instance but that sort of thing is getting rather intrusive and you would have to keep it very confidential. Dmcq (talk) 13:54, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Modern meters don't just measure electricity consumption. They measure it by half hour 'bins', they may also measure for different rates of consumption (you get it logged against a different rate if your consumption is over a limit, not just for a different time slot) and they may even measure power factor in real time. It's not easy to test this.
 * Then you have to deal with the billing system. Which can be remarkably inaccurate (10% overbilling is far from unusual on large commercial accounts). Even knowing the consumption on site, the amount charged for that energy (on a commercial contract, rather than a domestic one) depends massively on factors like the time of day, the day of the week, the season of the year, the supply distance to it, local weighting factors (electricity can cost substantially more on one side of the road than the other), consumption vs. agreed levels of consumption (you get charged more if you take more than you agreed to) and again, power factor. Andy Dingley (talk) 16:09, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

I looked at the product pages for those meters (8650; 8600 is older but similar; 8600 runs $500-$1000 on ebay used). They are very fancy and if you have a real use for something like that, your facilities management people should know what's required. For internal billing and metering like Andy describes, there must be something much simpler and cheaper out there. I use a Kill A Watt at home and ISTM that a permanently installed version of that with a computer port would do the job. I wouldn't suggest a DIY modification to a Kill-a-watt though. As for the issues of stuff like electricity meters connected to the internet, the Internet of Shit twitter account (a play on Internet of Things) provides nonstop insightful commentary. It sounds like you are thinking of installing such a system based on some sales pitch. Per Guy Macon's advice, unless you know you need it, I'd stay away. 173.228.123.166 (talk) 17:47, 27 July 2018 (UTC) Added: that twitter feed seems to have moved to its own site and/or Reddit but same idea. The old tweets had many comedy gems. 173.228.123.166 (talk) 17:49, 27 July 2018 (UTC)