Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2019 August 31

= August 31 =

Block of Wikipedia in Turkey
The article Block of Wikipedia in Turkey contains a huge banner that states: This article needs attention from an expert in Computer networking. The specific problem is: need technical details of how the blocking is done and why workarounds do not always work. See the talk page for details. WikiProject Computer networking may be able to help recruit an expert. (October 2018)

Surely there must be someone here who can fix that problem if it exists and get rid of the ugly banner. Poveglia (talk) 21:24, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

AMD Ryzen PC
I'm thinking of building a PC using an AMD Ryzen 3200G, 3600, or 3700X cpu (not sure which). Intended configuration is cpu, 1 ECC memory dimm, 2 sata hdd (software raid-1), and maybe a low end ssd for system/temp/user stuff. Hosting would be in a data center since I usually work on a laptop. I don't care about slight (few percent) performance hits from 1x dimm and am willing to underclock a bit if that saves power. Cheap hosting around here (he.net Fremont CA) gives 1 amp of power max, 0.85A sustained. Questions: Thanks. 67.164.113.165 (talk) 23:13, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * 1. Is there a way to estimate the system's max power draw from the above config? It would be quiescent a lot of the time, but I would occasionally run it "hot" (i.e. cpu and disks all busy for sustained periods).
 * 2. Any problem using just one dimm? I probably want 16gb or 32gb, and would rather use one larger dimm than two smaller ones, to leave more empty slots for later possible expansion
 * 3. I have a crappy old Supermicro 1U server with an extended ATX motherboard. The motherboard and cpu are obsolete power sucking monstrosities, but the enclosure and power supply seem perfectly good.  Any issue with swapping out that motherboard for a more modern one, micro ATX or regular ATX?
 * 4. Is there some significant reason to pay extra for X570 chipset instead of B450? Board I'm thinking of using is Asus PRIME B450M-A/CSM since my local store sells lots of those.  Again I'm not worried about slight performance differences but care more about power draw, reliability, software compatibility (Linux), etc.
 * I have numbered your questions; hope you don't mind. I can only answer one of them.
 * @Question 4: B450 and X470 motherboards have limited PCIe 4.0 support. The feature is only available on the primary PCIe x16 and M.2 slots, as these are usually wired directly to the CPU. That is perhaps not a significant factor in your purchasing decision, but it might be for others. Poveglia (talk) 23:46, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks, the numbering is appreciated. I don't think there are any significant PCIe 4.0 devices right now except for some high end SSD's so I probably won't about it for now.  Can always upgrade.  This is just for a personal general purpose compute box so I'm not too worried about being bleeding edge. 67.164.113.165 (talk) 00:53, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Exactly; it is a significant reason to buy a more expensive motherboard but not for you. Poveglia (talk) 04:09, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
 * @Question 3: Some enclosures can handle multiple formfactors. Computer_form_factor says: "Extended ATX (EATX) ... The mounting hole pattern for the upper portion of the board matches ATX.". ATX says: "Screw holes not completely compatible with some ATX cases." https://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=663581 Poveglia (talk) 04:09, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
 * @Question 2: Nope. Its often a few dollars cheaper to buy a so-called kit, but prices will drop in the future. In this case buying one big dimm now and possibly upgrading if necessary at some point in the future make total sense. Maybe you'll never need a second one. Just make sure you buy one that is widely available so that you can later buy another one if needed. Poveglia (talk) 04:18, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Thanks again. Re question 3, if it's just about holes in the enclosure, I can always drill some extra ones. Question 2 was mostly about whether the cpu required dimms to be installed in pairs. I figured not, since they are 72 bit dimms, but wasn't sure. I guess I can also check with the guys at the store. It's unusual for people to use ECC dimms in personal computers (they like to live dangerously and/or are used to being jacked by Intel) but since the Ryzen mobo and cpu supports ECC, I figure I'll spend the extra few bucks. 67.164.113.165 (talk) 05:30, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
 * A single DIMM would work just fine, but I just read on asus.com that the motherboard supports dual channel mode and that means that having 2 DIMMs could have a significant effect on performance. Poveglia (talk) 06:40, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks, yeah, I wondered about that possibility. Any idea what "significant" is?  If it's under 10% I'll just live with it, but if it's 3x or something I'll get the two dimms.  Tbh I worry more about the power limit than small speed differences.  I may bring a wattmeter to the computer store. 67.164.113.165 (talk) 10:07, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I found a site that did some tests to show the difference between dualchannel and monochannel. But remember: numbers are meaningless, one datapoint = anecdotal evidence = trash, benchmarks are a poor indicator of real world performance, and reality is subjective. If your computer store does repairs and you own a car you could bring your old server (take the old motherboard out) and ask to borrow a cheap & shitty ATX motherboard for a couple of minutes (maybe request that by phone in advance). I wouldn't be surprised if mounting an ATX board turned out to be a piece of cake as long as its not too big. However, the B450 is a µATX board and I am pretty sure that means you'd have to mount it yourself. Maybe buying an ATX board is easier because the mounting holes should partially match. There is a way to estimate the system's max power draw. Google "Power Supply Calculator". I played around with it a bit and it recommended a PSU wattage of 287 so it tried to sell me a 450 PSU (which would probably be fine). If the old PSU is 450 or more then it should work (no GPU, 2x32gb, a 512gb SSD and 2 15k rpm 3.5" hdd's). Your wattmeter is more accurate than an educated guess. Poveglia (talk) 11:02, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks. The old motherboard uses 200+ watts so the PSU has plenty of capacity.  The power limit I'm trying to stay under is the 0.85 sustained amps available from the data center unless I pay extra.  67.164.113.165 (talk) 17:53, 1 September 2019 (UTC)


 * 2) One other reason to get a pair of DIMMs is that you need to get them in matched pairs, as even minor changes can make them not work well together. So, if you ever may want a matched pair, buy them together now. SinisterLefty (talk) 23:01, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
 * [[File:Webcomic xkcd - Wikipedian protester.png]] Poveglia (talk) 23:38, 1 September 2019 (UTC)


 * An example of what can happen when you later attempt to buy a matching stick: . SinisterLefty (talk) 02:19, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it is possible that a product keeps the same name but changes over time. You need to be careful you buy the exact revision you need. So yeah, you need matched pairs, but that doesn't necessarily require you to buy 2 at a time; you can have 1 DIMM and then later buy 3 more that are exactly the same and it will work fine. Poveglia (talk) 02:35, 2 September 2019 (UTC)


 * You won't necessarily be able to find the same revision later. Safer to buy them together as a kit. SinisterLefty (talk) 02:40, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Fair point and I'll keep it in mind. 67.164.113.165 (talk) 07:25, 4 September 2019 (UTC)