Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2020 June 7

= June 7 =

Windows 10 don't have proper shut down?
Windows 10 don't have proper shut down? I installed this OS on my computer Ram nareshji (talk) 06:15, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

What happen I turn off computer during system Windows update at start up?
What happen I turn off computer during system Windows update at start up? Ram nareshji (talk) 06:16, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Automatic updates in Windows 10
I have two computers, a desktop and a laptop. Both are "configured" the same way ... and have the same settings. The desktop computer had undergone a Microsoft Windows "automatic update" (by itself, without any intervention from me). This was a good week or so ago; May 31, I believe. Now, that computer says "Windows 10 Home - Version 2004". My laptop computer -- for whatever reason -- seems to "lag" a few days behind, when it comes to receiving these Microsoft Windows "automatic updates". However, it's been a while ... and the laptop still has not received any "automatic updates". I clicked a button that says "update now" (or some such) and it says "there are no updates available; you have all of the latest updates" (or some such). Now, that computer says "Windows 10 Home - Version 1909". I notice some differences between the Microsoft version in the desktop (Version 2004) and the laptop (Version 1909). Why is the laptop not automatically updating? And is there a way that I can manually "force" an update? I tried all of the obvious steps ... but the laptop keeps indicating that there are no updates found anywhere to be installed, or downloaded, or updated. What's going on? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:27, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * There are millions computers all over the world to recieve the update, and Microsoft possibly can't provide it to everyone at the same time. Look at Windows 10 version history (2019–2020) - it says the update begun on 27 May. --CiaPan (talk) 16:38, 7 June 2020 (UTC)


 * I know that every computer does not get updated at the same exact time. But, this seems longer than usual.  (And it still has not yet happened.)  And my question was -- knowing that there is indeed an update "out there" -- how do I manually "force" it to happen on my computer?  Thanks.   Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:56, 7 June 2020 (UTC)


 * The easy way is to click on the hourglass on your task bar to search, type in "update", select "check for updates -- system settings" and check for updates. --Guy Macon (talk) 17:28, 7 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks. As I said above, I did that.  Several times.  It keeps coming back with "no updates available".  To repeat:  I clicked a button that says "update now" (or some such) and it says "there are no updates available; you have all of the latest updates" (or some such).  Now, that computer says "Windows 10 Home - Version 1909".  There must be some way to "force" an update, no?     Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:56, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * No.
 * The system decides on its own when to fetch updates and install them. It may suggest you to choose appropriate moment and click 'fetch and install' or something, but there is no requirement that the system must have an option for you to force it to update itself. --CiaPan (talk) 19:33, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * As you said in the title of this section, those are automatic updates, not manual updates. --CiaPan (talk) 19:36, 7 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Before posting this question ... this was my assumption.  Microsoft creates these new updates.  Then, little by little, they "distribute them" to each and every computer.  Of course, that takes time ... since there are millions of computers all over the place.  But, if a user wants to ... they can manually update their operating system ... once, indeed, that update is actually available.  Through a manual update.  That's how almost all other software updates work.  I can go to the website and click something like "install the latest version of" whatever software.  Am I wrong?  The "automatic" from Microsoft is just sort of a convenience ... so that the update actually occurs ... rather than relying on users to manually update.  Since most probably won't.  I thought.    Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:25, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * , there was a zero-day exploit being patched, so it was delayed for a bit, it's only just come out. Here is an article that also explains how you can hasten its delivery. https://wccftech.com/windows-10-version-2004-may-2020-update-release-delayed Elizium23 (talk) 21:28, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Windows 10 Update has a large amount of logic that decides who can receive updates. There are compatibility checks done, and the above article speaks of "rings" of users. There are staggered releases. If Microsoft has somehow determined that 2004 is not appropriate for your laptop, then you won't receive it until it's ready. Elizium23 (talk) 21:30, 7 June 2020 (UTC)


 * OK. Thanks.  I also found this: Get the Windows 10 May 2020 Update ... and this: Windows 10 May 2020 Update.  Thanks.    Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:33, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I am curious though (XY problem) - why do you need the latest update? Does it fix a bug your system has? Does it add a feature that you need for work? Elizium23 (talk) 21:33, 7 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks. No, I don't "need" the update.  I was merely expecting it (as happens every other time) ... and it never showed up ... so I assumed something was wrong.  So, after waiting patiently for a week or so, I decided to ask about this, on this Help Desk.  Also ... what is a "zero-day" exploit?  I didn't see that in the article you linked to.  I saw the term, but not an explanation of what it means.  Thanks.    Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:39, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * , the way you will find out something is wrong with updates is that Windows will tell you. You'll find a dangerous-looking yellow or red icon and it will explain what went wrong in the update process. You can also dig into logs for failed updates in the past.
 * A zero-day exploit is one that is unknown and subject to being actively abused without a mitigation existing. Elizium23 (talk) 21:43, 7 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Hi (again). Thanks.  I actually gave your question of curiosity a bit more thought.  These updates come "out of the blue".  Then -- as soon as they come -- I will hit "do the update right now".  Sometimes, it takes a quick 5 minutes or so.  This time, with version 2004 ... it took like 3 or 4 hours.  (On my desktop PC.)  So, I regretted hitting the "do the update right now" option ... and, in hindsight, I wished that I had waited until "overnight" or so ... when my computer was not needed by me, for a good 3- or 4-hour stretch.  I wanted to avoid this same problem with my laptop.  I wanted to install it when it was a good time for me, knowing that it would "eat up" 3 or 4 hours of my time (or, my computer's time).  Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:48, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Older computers often get major updates much later. In addition there may a be a problem with your particular laptop model. Ruslik_ Zero 04:51, 8 June 2020 (UTC)


 * I don’t remember any of this crap with earlier Windows versions. You either had all the updates or you didn’t. And I don’t understand why it should be any different with Windows 10.
 * Yes, automatic updates are often staggered (in other software too, not just Windows), but this shouldn’t affect users who manually do an update check. Yes, the wccftech article speaks of “rings”, but it sounds like that only applies to those who have opted in to the Insider Program. Brianjd (talk) 06:03, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
 * https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2020/05/27/how-to-get-the-windows-10-may-2020-update/ says: "Note: You may not see Download and install on your device as we are slowly throttling up this availability over the coming weeks, or your device might have a compatibility issue for which a safeguard hold is in place until we are confident that you will have a good update experience." PrimeHunter (talk) 11:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but that's not really true. Actually for Home/Business editions of older Windows, Windows Update used to just give you a checklist of updates and let you pick which to install. You also had the option to just have it install them all automatically in the background, which is what you may have chosen. Look up videos/images of Windows Update on, say, Windows 7 for examples. Updates have been made "selectively available" for a long time for multiple reasons, including Microsoft's distribution infrastructure. If every Windows system on the planet tried to hit Microsoft's servers at the same time, they would never be able to handle the load. And Enterprise editions of Windows work very differently; usually there are one or more WSUS servers for an organization and their sysadmins manage update deployment from there. Again, no one could handle having 500,000+ systems from insert big company, government department, etc. here trying to download updates at the same time. (It would take down the organization's own networks as well as Microsoft's.) --47.146.63.87 (talk) 16:27, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Personally, I am troubled by the twofold problem of inscrutable and forced updates. The feature packs Microsoft is now pushing are wide-reaching, and it's difficult to know what all is in them (like ObamaCare, we have to install it to know what's in it!) and it's also very difficult to refuse them. As I mentioned, updates should only be applied if (1) there is a bug fixed that bothers me or (2) if a feature is added which I need to proceed. Failing those two reasons, updates should not be applied to a working, stable system.
 * Microsoft is essentially using a portion of their customer base as patch beta testers: they roll out selectively, and then when bug reports come in, they retract the update and debug it awhile. Software is complex enough that Microsoft could never debug this all in-house.
 * The days are coming when Windows will have no major version and it will just be on a rolling-release schedule. Enough feature updates will come, and you will find yourself with a new version of the operating system. This bodes ill for debugging problems and features that change based on OS version, but it's the foreseeable future, so we'd better get used to it. Elizium23 (talk) 11:58, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Actually most of Windows Updates are not served from centralized servers now, they are served by peer-to-peer networking from other people's PCs. So Microsoft has addressed the capacity issue in more ways than you expected. Elizium23 (talk) 15:22, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, all. I called Microsoft at their 1-800 number ... and they manually placed the update in. Thank you. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 18:18, 10 June 2020 (UTC)