Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2020 November 1

= November 1 =

Using VLC for streaming
I have found out that I can save a network video stream to a local MP4 file with VLC with this kind of command:  where " " is the URL of the network video stream I want to save.

However, I have a couple of questions:
 * It appears that this still opens the VLC user interface, which goes away when the stream has been saved. Is it possible to skip opening the user interface and work fully from the command line?
 * Is it possible to save several streams simultaneously, using multiple instances of VLC?
 * Apparently saving a stream instead of downloading an MP4 file is going to take as much time as the actual video takes, regardless of the speed of my Internet connection. Is this right? J I P  &#124; Talk 15:59, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , when streaming, a client application "buffers" a certain amount ahead of the real-time video. This buffering is a start-and-stop affair. A download is not necessarily start-and-stop, and can be optimized, so it should be as fast as your connection allows, regardless of the running time of the video (and the size in bytes is a function of the bitrate times the running time plus the audio and everything else.) Elizium23 (talk) 21:37, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Better late than never I guess.
 * 1) From a quick glance, it appears the answer is no, at least not without tweaking the source code. VLC is designed to be primarily GUI-driven. There are other video players that are more command-line driven.
 * 2) Yes, though of course your network bandwidth will be divided between them.
 * 3) Yes. "Streaming" is an informal term. You're downloading data over the Internet. There's nothing magical about it. --47.152.93.24 (talk) 19:27, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

How to know how many hard disk places a computer has?
My mother recently bought a new desktop computer as second-hand from its original owner. It had a hard disk of about half a terabyte, which my mother thought was not enough, as she is an avid photographer whose photographs are published in several places. So she wanted more hard disk space and asked me how it could be available. I told her that if the computer has more hard disk places available, she can simply buy more hard disks and have me or a professional install them. So she went to a computer store, bought two 4 terabyte disks, and asked the store to install them for her.

But I didn't know how to check if there were any free hard disk places in her computer available, without opening up the case, which would potentially voided the warranty. Can this somehow be done in software only, without physically opening up the computer? The computer runs Windows 10. J I P &#124; Talk 23:13, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , absolutely not. You need to consider at least three factors when adding hard drives to a computer: wattage, heat dissipation, and available slots. The wattage can be computed by specs from the manufacturer, and added to the total watt usage of your system according to its power supply. A PSU upgrade may be necessary. Heat dissipation is trickier; you need to ensure that there is enough airflow and enough fan RPM in there to move heat away from the sensitive components. That is a function of case size and design. Then you need the available slots in your case. That can only be determined by visual inspection, or at least knowing the physical case specs in a document. I would also include the need for SATA ports and DC power connectors.
 * One thing your mother should consider, as a user of vast amounts of storage, is a NAS. A NAS can be easy to set up and configure, and can hold excellent amounts of storage and manage it extremely well. It can also be shared among several computers on a home network. It is a "private cloud" type storage device. Anyone on the verge of adding 3 HDDs to their computer should be considering a NAS as an alternative. Elizium23 (talk) 23:20, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Hard disk power usage is low enough that unless your computer was really close to the limit, it is very unlikely it will be a problem especially if we're only talking about 3 drives. If this is a commercially mass produced computer and you haven't upgraded the components (especially adding a power hungry GPU) frankly IMO you would not even bothering to check. Heat dissipation could be an issue. That said, again for a commercially mass produced computer and you actually have the physical slots, it is unlikely, especially with only 3 drives, to be a problem. If you're trying something more questionable like attaching it somewhere there is no slot, definitely you should consider heat dissipation. It may  be ideal to improve heat dissipation to keep the drives cool so you don't risk reducing life span. That said, WD & Seagate seem to think it's fine to put their drives in USB cases with terrible airflow.  However you definitely should not assume without checking that you actually have physical slots for 3 drives, nor the power connectors or SATA ports.  I do agree with the suggestion to consider an NAS. But I'd go further than that. It sounds like this is data that matters to your mum. What is her backup solution? Whether SSD, hard disk whatever, you should assume any device is going to fail and take your data with it. And there are plenty of other risks. In particular, while using a well set-up (e.g. preventing the remote user from simply deleting all data) locally stored NAS for backups (meaning not the only copy) can reduce the risk from user error, malware and catastrophic computer failure (probably power supply), it is not going to be sufficient.  A good backup solution generally entails at least one copy of important data stored off-site storage in some form since anything else is vulnerable to theft, fire, natural disasters etc. Nowadays this is often the actual 'cloud' but it could still simply be something stored in your house.  BTW, if you only have one free remaining slot, you may want to consider that if we're talking about 3.5" hard disks are relatively small nowadays. I just bought a 12TB WD USB from Amazon a few months ago and while I didn't shuck mine, a lot of people do [//www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/hrj4oq/wd_elements_12tb_17549_amazon_usa/] probably including some cloud storage providers. (BackBlaze in particular are famous for it). If you are uncomfortable shucking, you'll need to pay a little more, however you may still find the price per TB is lower for those larger drives.  Note also while the reliability of USB sourced disks are likely to be lower, per my earlier point you should never be tied to the reliability of a single drive. Preferably not even 2 drives. Most of the time, you're likely far better off storing two copies in two different drives even if USB sourced (although preferably not the same batch, probably even better if not the same model) than one copy in one enterprise drive.  In other words, the issue with reliability should never be one drive may die then I'll lose all my data. Instead, one drive may die then I'll have go to through the hassle of replacing it, restoring from backup etc. (As unlike with Backblaze etc, it's probably not just a case of pull the drive out and put the replacement into the slot.) Perhaps depending on your requirements & what you can afford etc, there will be some loss at the margins, e.g. if you only have a single backup and it's off-site and updated every month, you may lose up to a month.  Nil Einne (talk) 10:32, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Hard disk power usage is low enough that unless your computer was really close to the limit, it is very unlikely it will be a problem especially if we're only talking about 3 drives. If this is a commercially mass produced computer and you haven't upgraded the components (especially adding a power hungry GPU) frankly IMO you would not even bothering to check. Heat dissipation could be an issue. That said, again for a commercially mass produced computer and you actually have the physical slots, it is unlikely, especially with only 3 drives, to be a problem. If you're trying something more questionable like attaching it somewhere there is no slot, definitely you should consider heat dissipation. It may  be ideal to improve heat dissipation to keep the drives cool so you don't risk reducing life span. That said, WD & Seagate seem to think it's fine to put their drives in USB cases with terrible airflow.  However you definitely should not assume without checking that you actually have physical slots for 3 drives, nor the power connectors or SATA ports.  I do agree with the suggestion to consider an NAS. But I'd go further than that. It sounds like this is data that matters to your mum. What is her backup solution? Whether SSD, hard disk whatever, you should assume any device is going to fail and take your data with it. And there are plenty of other risks. In particular, while using a well set-up (e.g. preventing the remote user from simply deleting all data) locally stored NAS for backups (meaning not the only copy) can reduce the risk from user error, malware and catastrophic computer failure (probably power supply), it is not going to be sufficient.  A good backup solution generally entails at least one copy of important data stored off-site storage in some form since anything else is vulnerable to theft, fire, natural disasters etc. Nowadays this is often the actual 'cloud' but it could still simply be something stored in your house.  BTW, if you only have one free remaining slot, you may want to consider that if we're talking about 3.5" hard disks are relatively small nowadays. I just bought a 12TB WD USB from Amazon a few months ago and while I didn't shuck mine, a lot of people do [//www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/hrj4oq/wd_elements_12tb_17549_amazon_usa/] probably including some cloud storage providers. (BackBlaze in particular are famous for it). If you are uncomfortable shucking, you'll need to pay a little more, however you may still find the price per TB is lower for those larger drives.  Note also while the reliability of USB sourced disks are likely to be lower, per my earlier point you should never be tied to the reliability of a single drive. Preferably not even 2 drives. Most of the time, you're likely far better off storing two copies in two different drives even if USB sourced (although preferably not the same batch, probably even better if not the same model) than one copy in one enterprise drive.  In other words, the issue with reliability should never be one drive may die then I'll lose all my data. Instead, one drive may die then I'll have go to through the hassle of replacing it, restoring from backup etc. (As unlike with Backblaze etc, it's probably not just a case of pull the drive out and put the replacement into the slot.) Perhaps depending on your requirements & what you can afford etc, there will be some loss at the margins, e.g. if you only have a single backup and it's off-site and updated every month, you may lose up to a month.  Nil Einne (talk) 10:32, 2 November 2020 (UTC)


 * If the hard drives she bought can't be installed inside the computer, there is something similar to the NAS but simplier - a drive dock.  A drive is simply inserted into it and it is hooked up to a USB port.  However, the NAS would be good for a large amount of external storage, but it does cost more for the enclosure.  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 00:00, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , a drive dock would be subject to wattage and heat considerations just the same as internal drives, plus you would have very fast drives sharing a potentially very slow USB bus. Not an ideal situation. I would only do such a thing temporarily. Elizium23 (talk) 00:01, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
 * It is external to the computer and has its own power supply, so I don't see the wattage and heat concerns. Mine is as fast as an internal 6.0 gigabit SATA. Something like this. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 00:10, 2 November 2020 (UTC)


 * I don't think opening the case would void the warranty. Most makers include instructions for upgrading it.  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 00:17, 2 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Also, if it is made by a major maker, you should be able to find the documentation online and check it. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 01:19, 2 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Simply opening the outer casing might not void the warranty, but there may be an anti-tamper sticker across some of the internal parts to prevent access. Of course, if the computer is second-hand, the warranty may well be void anyway. Matt Deres (talk) 18:30, 2 November 2020 (UTC)


 * I looked for an answer at Dell and found this. Even replacing a DVD with a HD doesn't void the warranty - it is "user replaceable".  Just don't break anything.  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 23:25, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
 * User:JIP - Based on the discussion below, I would suggest that the answer for your mother may be an external USB drive, which does not involve opening the box (which involves knowledge of what is inside the box) and just plugs into a USB port. This depends on your mother's machine having a few free USB ports, which most Windows 10 machines do.  Robert McClenon (talk) 01:03, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
 * She told me she already went to a computer store, bought two 4 TB internal hard drives and asked the store to install them for her. She knows her way around photography and image processing in Windows, but she asked for my help in installing hard drives. I told her I or a professional could do it, so she chose a professional. J I P  &#124; Talk 01:16, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

Maybe Stupid Nomenclature Question
What I would like to know is what the difference is between Network-Attached Storage and a USB external hard drive. I have a USB external hard drive with a capacity of 1 Terabyte. On my Windows 10 machine it plugs into a USB port and is set up as device F:. My own thought is that it is better to plug things into the box than to open the box. I remember opening the box in the 80286 era, but I think that working inside an opened box requires more knowledge these days than many users have. So what is the difference between NAS, which is being recommended, and a USB external hard drive. Robert McClenon (talk) 22:19, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , a NAS is, well, attached to a network, not a USB cable. And a NAS is smart storage that comes with a configurable operating system of some kind. A NAS will typically share out the storage in multiple different formats and protocol, suitable for use by Apple, Android, Windows, Linux, etc. devices. It may be well indistinguishable where the NAS ends and where a desktop server begins, because a NAS may offer many other services that are only partly file-storage-related.
 * A USB enclosure is just a way to have an internal drive sit outside of the computer system's enclosure and it still requires a full computer to make it anything but a disk drive. Elizium23 (talk) 22:33, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you, User:Elizium23 - In that case, it sounds as though a USB drive would be a satisfactory alternative for the photographer, because there would be no need to open the box. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:00, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , the main advantage of an external drive, vs. a NAS, is ease of management. Nowadays, installing and partitioning and mounting one is as easy as falling off a log. A full-blown NAS demands the talents of a systems administrator. Elizium23 (talk) 08:13, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, User:Elizium23 and User:JIP. Then the external hard drive has convenience advantages over both the add-on internal hard drive and the Network Attached Storage.  The internal hard drive involves opening the box, which requires hardware skill.  The NAS involves system administration, which also involves a skill.  Maybe this is only standard advice for the future.  External hard drives are easy to use and are not expensive compared to other stuff.  Robert McClenon (talk) 16:34, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, User:Elizium23 and User:JIP. Then the external hard drive has convenience advantages over both the add-on internal hard drive and the Network Attached Storage.  The internal hard drive involves opening the box, which requires hardware skill.  The NAS involves system administration, which also involves a skill.  Maybe this is only standard advice for the future.  External hard drives are easy to use and are not expensive compared to other stuff.  Robert McClenon (talk) 16:34, 4 November 2020 (UTC)