Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2007 October 21

= October 21 =

About the former nbc show Sisters
Is the former NBC show Sisters out on DVD? If so where can I find them? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.74.44.120 (talk) 03:40, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Since it appears to be an American show, try Amazon.com. If it's not listed there, the DVD isn't out yet. - Mgm|(talk) 17:05, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Surnames of ppl in the english royal family
Just something that i've been curious about, do the royal family of england have surnames?

The name of the current queen in our article is down as "Elizabeth Alexandra Mary", while prince charles is "Charles Philip Arthur George" and princess diana is down as "Diana Frances née Spencer".

I know next to nothing about how the english royal family works, don't know how i thought of this, but it's been bugging me for a while. Am a right to assume those names are all just given names + middle names? i.e. no surname?

Then was diana's surname originally "spencer"?. If so, where did "Frances" come from? Or was it her old middle name? (i.e. used to be Diana Frances Spencer, but the Spencer bit got dropped?).

If the royal family don't have surnames...then exactly what do they put on like...passports and legal documents? And what about people who are distantly related to the royal family? How far away from the royal family do you have to be before you get a surname and when that happens, where does the surname come from? --124.191.80.213 06:44, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * You would get a lot more essay type answers for this from the Humanities desk, however this is what I understand.

In the UK, people's names are the names by which they are customarily known, so surnames are still a matter of custom rather than set in stone in law. The royal family presently had the surname "Windsor" (see House of Windsor) which was changed from Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (which was the family name of Victoria's husband Albert)in 1917 in response to anti-German sentiment in the First World War. Prince Philip, who was a member of the Greek royal family, didn't have a surname, and he adopted the surname Moutbatten, and so the Queen and her children now have the surname Mountbatten-Windsor. Diana Spencer was a commoner, and her given names were Diana and Frances. Spencer was her maiden name. Charles Philip Arthur George and Elizabeth Alexandra Mary are the given names of the Prince of Wales and the Queen. SaundersW 09:52, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The Queen’s 4 children, Princes Charles, Andrew and Edward, and Princess Anne, and some (but not all) of their children, have used “Mountbatten-Windsor” as a surname in certain contexts, but there’s a strong argument to suggest that being Royal Princes/Princesses, they don’t actually have a surname. Instead, they have a style, e.g. the Prince of Wales, and they use a surname only when the occasion demands.  To my knowledge, the question of the surname of the Royal Family never existed prior to the Queen's ambiguous declaration of 1960.  Had this question been asked in 1950, say, the answer would have been categorical - the Royal Family has a house name and a dynastic name but the individual members have no surnames.  See Mountbatten-Windsor for more detail on this.  --  JackofOz 12:29, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The Royal Family's surname was Wettin before it was Windsor. DuncanHill 14:23, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I always assumed that the 'house' name formed the 'surname' of the Royal Family as I've heard people refer to Henry VIII as 'Henry Tudor'. The current Royal Family surname is derived from the name 'Battenberg', a German Royal Family which is related to the British one but it was changed to Mountbatten, apparantly due to the anti-German feelings in the country at the time (shortly after a World War, not sure which one).  As far as I know, the name 'Windsor' was invented at around the same time, named after Windsor Castle, one of the Quenn's favourite residences.  GaryReggae 14:38, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, "Henry Tudor" was Henry VII, and he is generally only referred to as such before he became king. 80.254.147.52 16:03, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


 * They never used the name Wettin, though. —Tamfang 17:18, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

(reset indent) I think there’s a little bit of confusion here. Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom tells us "Though the Royal House is named Windsor, it was decreed, via a 1960 Order-in-Council, that those descendants of Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip who were not Princes or Princesses of the United Kingdom should have the personal surname Mountbatten-Windsor."

This declaration was not intended to apply to her and Prince Philip’s children, who would be Princes and Princess - without any surname, as has always been the case with Princes and Princesses. However, the children (Anne, Charles, Andrew & Edward) and some of their children (but not including Princess Anne’s children, Zara and Peter, who have the surname Phillips from their father, Mark Phillips) have informally used Mountbatten-Windsor from time to time, out of convenience as much as anything else. But this does not mean that Mountbatten-Windsor is their actual surname. Nor does the fact that they are members of the House of Windsor mean that their surname is Windsor. The Royal Family is not like a normal family (I know, I know ...) in that they have no need for surnames. The name of the Royal House was changed from Wettin to Windsor back in 1917 by the Queen’s grandfather George V. The name of the Royal House has nothing to do with the existence or otherwise of the personal surname of any members of the Royal Family. The only reason that Princess Anne's children are Zara and Peter Phillips, or Zara and Peter "any surname", is that they inherited their surname from their father (a commoner), and their parents decided that the children would also be commoners, without any titles. Prince Edward also decided to name his daughter with a surname - Lady Louise Windsor - which was somewhat out of step with the surname he had previously used informally for himself, Mountbatten-Windsor. He could just as easily called her "Lady Louise Mountbatten", since that is (or was) the surname of his own father Prince Philip. Edward's brother Andrew, on the other hand, has daughters whom he and Fergie decided would be Princesses, without surnames. Edward and Sophie could have gone this way, but they're individualists. Charles' sons are Princes, without surnames.

Prince Philip of Greece and Denmark (as he then was) abandoned all his European titles and was naturalised British some time before his wedding in 1947, and took the surname Mountbatten. At that moment in time he was a commoner. A few hours before the wedding, he was ennobled as the Duke of Edinburgh. It could be argued that Philip's surname was still Mountbatten. But this did not mean that his wife, the then Princess Elizabeth, suddenly became Elizabeth Mountbatten. Nor was she ever Elizabeth Windsor. She went from being “Princess Elizabeth” (no surname) to “Princess Elizabeth, the Duchess of Edinburgh” (no surname), and later to “Queen Elizabeth II” (no surname). -- JackofOz 07:43, 23 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Do I remember right that Charles and Anne were born "Prince/ss N of Edinburgh"? —Tamfang 17:18, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, you do. By the time Andrew and Edward arrived, Princess Elizabeth had become Queen Elizabeth, so even though Prince Philip was still the Duke of Edinburgh, their titles derived from their mother (now a monarch) rather than their father (merely a monarch's consort). --  JackofOz 23:13, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations to all contributing here. This surnametastic debate wins the tenth User:Dweller/Dweller's Ref Desk thread of the week award and finally gets the Ents Desk off the mark. Good job. --Dweller 10:57, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Music Genre Identification
Can someone identify the music genre of this song? It's sort of a 50s instrumental gameshowy type song. Listen to it here. Thank you. Codell Talk 19:39, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure but the intro to it sounds exactly like the Kate Bush song - Wuthering Heights intro. A sample could be found on iTunes/Amazon no doubt. Either way the intro is very similar. It also sounds a bit like the tune in GTA London, which is set in the 60s I think. ny156uk 16:33, 22 October 2007 (UTC)