Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2008 December 10

= December 10 =

NFL playoffs, and teams with 2 ties
In the NFL playoffs article, I was trying to find out what happened if a team finished with 2 ties; specifically Philadelphia were to finish 9-5-2 this year, and Dallas 10-6. And, let's say they split their head to head matchups. According to the article, "won-lost-tie percentage" is considered. Is that implying that this is different than normal won-loss percentage?

Since there hasn't been a tie in several years in the NFL, I wasn't sure how this worked, but I was under the impression that ties cancelled each other out, so under that scenario, Phiadelphia and Dallas would still be tied and they would have to go to the next tiebreaker. Is that right, or would Phiadelphia have an advatage because they tied two games instead of going 1-1 in them. (And thus would be "better," at 9-5, than Dallas at 10-6?)

Thanks in advance.Somebody or his brother (talk) 01:09, 10 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Tie-breaking only applies to teams with identical records. 9-5-2 is not identical to 10-6-0.  So, no tie-breaker is needed.  10 wins is more than 9 wins. --  k a i n a w &trade; 03:30, 10 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Not so. Per the NFL, tiebreaking procedures are invoked for teams with identical "won-lost-tied percentages".  Normally a tie is considered half a win and half a loss, so 9-5-2 would be identical to 10-6-0; 9-5-2 is not considered as if it were 9-5-0.  Note that this is distinct from a league like the NHL, where ties are common but number of wins is an early tiebreaker.  &mdash; Lomn 15:16, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Further references: our article on the NFL playoffs notes that in the league's early years, ties were omitted, leading to 6-1-6 and 6-1-4 being considered identical (and superior to 10-3-1). The Elias Sports Bureau uses 1971-1972 as the transition point; ties in or prior to 1971 are disregarded, while ties in 1972 and beyond are considered the half-win half-loss format. &mdash; Lomn 15:27, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Lomn has it right; under the old system (prior to 1971) the NFL used only numbers of wins and losses to calculate win percentage, with a "tie" counting as zero wins and zero losses. After 1971, the tie was changed to count as 1/2 win and 1/2 loss, thus altering the way "win percentage" was calculated.  Both 10-6-0 and 9-5-2 would have identical .625 win percentages, so would activate the tie-breaking procedures.  See National Football League playoffs for more on these. Given that a "tie" happens about 2-3 times a decade in the NFL, it would be exceedingly rare for the same team to get two in one season.  Since the institution of "sudden death overtime" in 1974, there have only been 13 tie games in the NFL, and the only year with multiple tie games was in 1997, when there were 2.  Over that time period, there have been about (rough estimate) 20,000 games played.  Having the same team get two in the same season would be unprecedented. --Jayron32. talk . contribs  18:11, 10 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I did not know that. I though that the tie was 1/2 win and 1/2 loss, so it cancelled itself out.  However, I can see that (9+0.5)/(5+0.5) is not the same as (9/5)+(1/2 - 1/2). --  k a i n a w &trade; 18:34, 10 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, as the math works out, two ties will cancel each other out (since you would add 1 win and 1 loss to the record). Thus a 0-0-16 record would be mathematically identical to a 8-8-0 record.  However, with an odd number of ties (and since no team since 1974 has had more than one) it gets a little weird.  Given the math, if you have a winning record with one tie, the tie is just as good as a loss, since the half game will drag down the wins more than it drags up the losses.  However, if you have a losing record, a tie has a greater effect on the number of wins, thus in those cases a tie is as good as a win.  Given that it is nearly impossible for a team with a losing record to make the playoffs (it is mathematically possible, but in practice it never happens) for the purposes of playoff qualification, you will often hear comentators state "A tie is as good as a loss".  Which it is... --Jayron32. talk . contribs  23:45, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

First slasher film
Which is the first slasher film ever made? The article slasher film does not give any particular name.  Otolemur crassicaudatus  (talk) 12:23, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I searched google and the results are more confusing. Some claim Psycho was the first slasher film, some claim In My Skin , some claim Dementia 13 or Torso . I am totally confused.  Otolemur crassicaudatus  (talk) 12:41, 10 December 2008 (UTC)


 * From the Torso link you gave, and from what is in the slasher film article, it sounds a bit like asking what the first democracy was, or what the first rock song was; it all depends on your criteria for what a true slasher film is. Alexius  Horatius 13:08, 10 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Un Chien Andalou (1929)? Don't overlook Aroused (1966) and George Segal's vicious attack on a waterbed in The Terminal Man (1974). Pepso2 (talk) 16:37, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I vote for The Texas Chainsaw Massacre from 1974. It contained the arch-villian Leatherface, similar to later characters Michael Myers from Halloween (1978 film), Freddy Krueger from Friday the 13th (1980 film), and Chucky from Child's Play (1988). StuRat (talk) 03:11, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Psychology jobs
Are there any fun Psychology jobs in the entertainment business? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.39.144.145 (talk) 21:28, 10 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Psychologists can be consultants for film and tv shows, and have their own radio, tv or training films (Dr. Phil is the most obvious) so there's a lot going on in the consultancy and performance field for experts. Google gives you Stan Katz, Steven Sabat for the film Memory, Dr. Sherry Roth, and there's whoever was consultant for The Sopranos psychologist Dr Jennifer Melfi, Halifax f.p., and the film Like Minds.  Julia Rossi (talk) 23:08, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You could be a shrink to the stars or an I/O psychologist for an entertainment company.--droptone (talk) 12:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Only When I Sleep
Was Only When I Sleep (from Talk on Corners) based on an old Irish tune? If yes, which one? --Kjoonlee 23:36, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Er - try reading the article! - "Music by: the Corrs, Oliver Leiber, Paul Peterson, Dan Bonney Lyrics by: Dan Bonney" - so no. If it was you'd have something like Trad. Arr. The Corrs, additional music by The Corrs etc Exxolon (talk) 00:49, 11 December 2008 (UTC)