Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2009 August 13

= August 13 =

I Know this isn`t supposed to be here, but I just couldn`t resist asking.
I`m sorry for posting, this on the refrence desk. But I just couldn`t resist posting I was reading the article on the upcoming hobbit films.And wondering If any of you could picture one of The Jonas Brothers in the role of Bilbo Baggins. I know it sounds stupid, and that It`s not supposed to be here but I just couldn`t resist WIKIPEDIANS EVERYWHERE. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Peter Pan 18 (talk • contribs) 02:08, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Absolutely not. They are all too tall. Not to mention many fans would consider it a descrace to Tolkien. I'm not aware of many people who enjoy the Jonas brothers and hobbits The Weak Willed 02:14, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Most humans adults are generally too tall to play a hobbit. The ones in the LOTR movies looked small due to big sets and camera trickery. (As for the rest of the question, can you imagine a midnight sneak preview of the Hobbit, with Tolkien fans dressed as their favourite character, amongst screaming tweens who don't even know what a Hobbit is?) Adam Bishop (talk) 03:35, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, they did play seraphim in Night at the Museum: Battle of the Smithsonian... Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 05:46, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Balrog powers
Do Tolkien's balrogs have any other supernatural powers than shapeshifting and their flaming whips? Neon Merlin  04:30, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Answer depends on whether you consider The Lord of the Rings trilogy the only canonical source. If so, they didn't even have shapeshifting.  "Long life" would count as a supernatural power.  Tempshill (talk) 04:48, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I consider all Tolkien's writings that were published with his permission (but not posthumous publications that relied on his heirs' permission) canonical. Neon  Merlin  04:59, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * This essay ponders whether they may have lost the power of shapeshifting. However, they could definitely cast a mean spell or two, just like Gandalf, seeing as they were the same type of being. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:15, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Remember, Gandalf had a Ring of Power, I don't think any balrogs did, so Gandalf would presumably be more powerful all else being equal (and he did win the big battle between him and a balrog). --Tango (talk) 17:26, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * They both died; that's not exactly a win. Algebraist 17:31, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * It was a lucky shot. Googlemeister (talk) 20:37, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Gandalf didn't die for long - it's not what you know, it's who you know! --Tango (talk) 22:08, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Badly hurt - not sure about Gandalf actually dying? ok dead for a bit83.100.250.79 (talk) 11:15, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Gandalf's ring had Narya use in combat (AFAIK). All it could do was make him feel good about falling into the chasm with the balrog. Clarityfiend (talk) 02:21, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Haha! That was excellent. Adam Bishop (talk) 15:15, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The exact powers of the rings are never made clear. It was the ring of fire, though, and Gandalf did put out the Balrog's fire (or persuade the balrog to put out its own fire), possibly with Narya's aid. There also seems to have been some fire getting thrown about after they reaching the summit, going by Gandalf's account later. Algebraist 02:26, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It's fire was extinguished by falling into water - it's explicitly mentioned in LOTR, chap. "The White Rider", but then it 're-ignited' itself.83.100.250.79 (talk) 11:15, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't have the book to hand, but I'm referring to the extinguishing of the Balrog's fire in "The Bridge of Khazad-Dum" after Gandalf's line "The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udun! Go back to the shadow! You shall not pass!" Algebraist 12:21, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * There are some more 'fiery abilities' mentioned in LOTR "The Bridge of Khazad-dum"83.100.250.79 (talk) 11:15, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Tolkien never nailed down anyone's "superpowers" (apart from invisibility) in a way to satisfy fans of superhero comics or games. —Tamfang (talk) 06:47, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

People playing themself in TV shows
Was having this discussion with my sister. She brought up the point that she think didn't anyone before Jerry Seinfeld in Seinfeld had played a fictionalised version of themself on a TV show, i.e., using their own full name and a similarity to their real life personality (not counting things like guest appearances, and obviously not things such as talk show hosts).

I tried to think of others, such as Lucille Ball and Bob Newhart, but none turned out to fit the description. Of course Larry David has done it since on Curb Your Enthusiasm.

Can anyone think of any other examples of this, especially any pre-dating Seinfeld? --jjron (talk) 12:48, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Not quite the same, but Bing Crosby had a show called "The Bing Crosby Show", in which he played a fictional character, modelled on himself, called Bing Collins. It was a family-based light drama (I suppose that would be the description; "sitcom" doesn't really hit the mark), but most episodes contrived a way for Bing to open his larynx and sing a song. --  JackofOz (talk) 12:58, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Jack Benny, almost definitely. George Burns and Gracie Allen?  -- LarryMac  | Talk  13:03, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Dean Martin played a hyper-stylized version if himself on his old variety show. Livewireo (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:48, 13 August 2009 (UTC).
 * Did the fictional Jack Benny have anything in common with the real one? —Tamfang (talk) 15:01, 17 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Jim Henson had a puppet of himself that would occasionally appear on The Muppet Show. As did Frank Oz and Jerry Nelson. APL (talk) 14:59, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Benny is an excellent example. He was playing that kind of fictionalized-self clear back in the 1930s in the golden age of radio. For that matter, what about Laurel and Hardy, whose career began in the 1910s or 1920s, playing under their own names - as did the Three Stooges in the 1930s and onward. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 15:03, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Ozzie and Harriet Nelson and their two sons. -- LarryMac  | Talk  15:51, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * For sure - and closer to their real-life, presumably, than Benny and such were. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 16:21, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Interesting - not sure if that one ever made it to Australia, if so it was before my day. I have heard of it, but never seen it. That one almost sounds like a early experiment in some of the modern incarnations of Reality television, like something such as Hogan Knows Best. --jjron (talk) 06:51, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It wasn't really reality, though, it was all scripted, but the characters were very close to their real-life personas. Even the girls the two boys dated were their girlfriends, and then wives, on the show.  Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 19:23, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Long before the advent of television Buffalo Bill was portraying a fictionalized version of himself in traveling shows. APL (talk) 16:32, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * To me, the all-time winner is Shirley MacLaine's Golden Globe nominated performance in the TV miniseries, Out on a Limb (1987), based on her best-selling autobiography. Ignoring the speculative, new age fantasy-like aspects, my fascination with this film was that MacLaine was not only portraying herself, she was recreating actual situations from her past. Thus, if she sat on the floor in a scene, did she once really sit on the floor at that event in real life? Or was that just the way the scene was staged, even though the truth was that she had sat in a chair? What are other films where an actor recreated their own past? Pepso2 (talk) 16:35, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Jackie Robinson and Muhammad Ali come to mind. Babe Ruth, as himself, recreating certain events within Pride of the Yankees (which was mostly about Gehrig, of course). I'm sure there have been many others. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 16:55, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Babe Ruth played himself in the 1920 silent film Headin' Home, though the account of his childhood was highly fictionalized. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 18:40, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Y'all have strayed from the question quite a bit... just sayin'  -- LarryMac  | Talk  19:52, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That tends to happen on RD. :)  Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 21:34, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Bill Cosby on the Cosby show. The Weak Willed 19:38, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Bill Cosby played Cliff Huxtable, an obstetrician; the OP asked about people playing themselves, with the same name and basic persona. -- LarryMac | Talk  19:52, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Gah, my memory is bad. Brain fart The Weak Willed 02:34, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * George Lopez. 99.151.253.124 (talk) 20:07, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Eric Sykes did Sykes and A... (1960-65) and Sykes (1972-1979). Nanonic (talk) 21:37, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Tony Hancock played his depressed, miserable self in Hancock's Half Hour, although he always referred to himself as "Anthony Hancock, artiste". --  JackofOz (talk) 21:48, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for all responses so far. Some people have answered a bit liberally, so perhaps we could also argue for Mr. T in Mister T. --jjron (talk) 22:30, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Tim Stack in My Name is Earl. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 02:43, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Can it be a cartoon, such as Adam West in Family Guy? I know that is not older than Seinfeld, but many people played themselves as cartoons in the past. --  k a i n a w &trade; 18:58, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * First examples that pops to my mind are the numerous guests that were on Scooby Doo, e.g. The Harlem Globe Trotters. Dismas |(talk) 20:27, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The Globe Trotters appeared as themselves in several different shows. Off the top of my head, I remember them showing up on Gilligan's Island.  Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 19:24, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Haven't The Simpsons had a bunch? —Tamfang (talk) 06:54, 17 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Gene Autry, Roy Rogers. —Tamfang (talk) 15:00, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Castaway (book)
Someone on one of the other ref desk mentioned the film, Castaway (film), and I just read our synopsis of the book, Castaway (book). It says the woman feared she was pregnant some time after arriving on the island and before beginning a sexual relationship with the man. How does that work? --Tango (talk) 16:58, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Wouldn't the fear be that she was impregnated before coming to the island? No timeline is given in our article; for all we know, this fear might have taken place 2 months after she landed.  The article needs more explanation on this point, surely.  Tempshill (talk) 17:32, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

TV show, can't remember
I have toy of the character, but I don't have it with me. Basically, I think it was on Cartoon Network or Nickelodeon, and I recall a teenager named Nick and it also have aliens or something. It was live action/computer animated. It must have been the early 2000s when it was on. Sorry if I hadn't provided much information, but I don't remember much. 99.151.253.124 (talk) 20:06, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Can you describe the toy? Vimescarrot (talk) 17:59, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Marc Anthony
Has Marc Anthony ever recorded English-language songs before releasing his self-titled English album? 200.112.17.21 (talk) 22:00, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It would seem that his first album, Otra Nota, has a cover version of Make It with You on it. Seems to be the only English song he recorded before he switched to Sony music. Fribbler (talk) 12:53, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

I was going to propose The Capeman, the Broadway musical written by Paul Simon and Derek Walcott, in which Anthony starred in 1998. But the cast album (on Decca Broadway)was not released until 2006. Still, he must have recorded it earlier! Catrionak (talk) 15:08, 15 August 2009 (UTC)