Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2009 December 8

= December 8 =

Alice in Wonderland
Was that movie about Alice going on a drug trip? Cause she eats a mushroom or something and then goes to the Wonderful land of Oz. ha, ha. Okay, just wherever she went. Moptopstyle1 02:34, 8 December 2009 (UTC)


 * The drug references in Alice are rather overt, the "eat me" cakes and "drink me" drinks which mess up Alice's perception of the world seem so. Such references are themselves the basis for the Jefferson Airplane song "White Rabbit".  Don't confuse Alice in Wonderland with the Wizard of Oz, which has its own drug references (poppies... poppies...)  Completely different stories.  But yes, you are not the first to notice those allusions.  -- Jayron  32  03:50, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

I was joking about the "Wizard of Oz" thing. Ha. It really does seem like "Alice In Wonderland" would be a very "druggie" movie. Especially with a lot of the psychedelic scenes. It almost seems like the song "Lucy in The Sky With Diamonds" belongs on the soundtrack. Moptopstyle1 06:03, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

I've never noticed the drug themes in "The Wizard of Oz." The poppies would be a direct hit to heroin, but what about "Emerald City"? it's designed to look like "Crystals" isn't it? And maybe how the "Good Witch Of The North" made it "Snow" when they fell asleep in the "poppies." "Pixie dust" possibly? I've always thought "The Wizard of Oz" was a clean movie! ha, ha. Moptopstyle1 06:12, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You are aware that the movie The Wizard of Oz predates most of the slang drug names you mention, and that the book it is based on predates them by a long way? DJ Clayworth (talk) 15:24, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Also that Alice in Wonderland (the Disney film released in 1951) is based on Alice's Adventures in Wonderland (Carroll's 1865 novel) and both of these predate 1960s drug culture (with its use of Psilocybin mushrooms)? AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 15:38, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * To make things a little clearer for my answer; the "poppies" thing was the only overt drug reference from TWoO. However, while the Alice stuff predates the 60's drug culture by about a century, it certainly does not predate drugs.  Laudanum and Opium were well known to Carroll's time; Samuel Taylor Coleridge was openly using drugs to "enhance" his creativity some 50 years before Carroll even!  The 60's did not invent drug use... -- Jayron  32  18:29, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I didn't claim they did, though perhaps my answer wasn't clear. The 1960s were the decade in which mushrooms were popularised and 1960s drug culture influenced the depictions of drug trips that the OP is talking about. The comparison was to Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds, not The Lotos-Eaters. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 09:00, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

This site gives some more information: "In the Victorian era there were no drug laws like we know them. Opium, cocaine, and laudanum (a painkiller that contained opium) were used for medicinal purposes, and could be obtained from a pharmacist...So in Carroll's days it was not uncommon to experience the effect of being 'high', whether or not accidentally. However, it was definitely not Carroll's intention to write a book about drugs: he wanted to entertain a little girl whom he loved. No evidence has ever been found that linked Carroll to drug use." Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:12, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
 * That's an example of trying to apply a modern context to something from a long time ago. It reminds me of that guy who wrote a book about how Lincoln was gay (despite having 4 children). In those days, men and women both wrote effusively in letters to each other. It never occurred to them that someone with an agenda would try to read something into it a century or two later, and it likely never occurred to Lewis Carroll either. And there was a different attitude toward drugs. I recall reading something about how Freud was at one point a proponent of cocaine, because it made his patients feel so much better. Unfortunately, it had side effects, and he had to stop prescribing it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:12, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Freud went further and advocated cocaine, which was then relatively new to western science, as a general stimulant for well people, not just patients with mental or physical ailments, because he believed it was non-addictive and that prolonged use was neither physically nor mentally harmful. Events proved him wrong, of course. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 00:52, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
 * He was also being bribed by the cocaine companies. APL (talk) 00:33, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Interesting: do you have a source for that? 87.81.230.195 (talk) 10:12, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Most prolific voice actor
Who is the most prolific voice actor? jc iindyysgvxc  (my contributions) 05:16, 8 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I'll be surprised if anyone has done more voice work than Mel Blanc. He did tons of work every year for almost 60 years. --  k a i n a w &trade; 05:20, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Currently working, I would say Frank Welker and Billy West are pretty prolific. Livewireo (talk) 15:52, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Other voice actors who appear in LOTS of stuff nowadays include
 * Carlos Alazraqui, who as a live actor plays Deputy Garcia on Reno 911!; his voice work is pretty extensive. You'd know him best as the Taco Bell Chihuahua, but the rest of his work is all over the place.
 * Mark Hamill (yes THAT Mark Hamill) has quietly made quite a career as a voice actor. He's got a quite a versitile range of voices that he does; but he's best known as The Joker in just about any animated Batman series for the past 15-20 years.  He also has numerous voices around the Adult Swim universe.
 * Hank Azaria does about 3/4ths of the voices on The Simpsons, which of itself would make him one of the most prolific voice actors working.
 * Harry Shearer does most of the rest of the voices that Hank Azaria doesn't do for The Simpsons. Other than the Simpson family themselves, Hank and Harry do almost every other voice in the series.
 * Brendon Small, most famous for Metalocalypse and Home Movies, also shows up all over Adult Swim
 * Seth Green also does a LOT of voice work, besides his live action stuff, mostly for Family Guy and Robot Chicken.
 * -- Jayron  32  18:24, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Tom Kenny! WHOO! oh, and there's that one guy that does the voice for all of the movie trailers! Don LaFontaine is his name! And he is probably thee best out there, he's probably done the most anyways....... Moptopstyle1 (&quot;I Feel Fine.&quot;) (talk) 06:21, 13 December 2009 (UTC) Oh wait. Don LaFontaine passed away last year. Then who did all of the "Transformers" commercial voice overs??? Moptopstyle1 (&quot;I Feel Fine.&quot;) (talk) 06:23, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

TV show about technology ending in concentration camps
Maybe 10-20 years ago I saw a (I think) PBS show about technology along the lines of James Burke's Connections in which one episode ended at the site of a German concentration camp with the host or narrator reaching down and pulling up a handful of soil that included the ashes of victims. I could be wrong about it being strictly about technology or part of a series but I don't think it was only about WW2/Germany/concentration camps. I looked at the short descriptions of the Connections episodes and didn't see it there but the descriptions are not very detailed. My memory of the scene isn't of James Burke either, but again, it was years ago. Any body remember this? If someone can answer I will double my recent donation to WP. TIA! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.234.6.239 (talk) 07:45, 8 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay, here's an answer: "I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did. I said I didn't know." --Anonymous, 08:25 UTC, December 8, 2009.


 * Probably this famous scene from Jacob Bronowski's The Ascent of Man. Save your money, give it to something deserving.  meltBanana  10:39, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

That's it, thanks so much! Comments notwithstanding I will double my donation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.234.6.239 (talk) 04:23, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Incidentally, I hope you realise on re-watching the clip that Bronowski was saying the very opposite of what your query title implies. His point was that the concentration camps, although incidentally using some technology, arose from an ideology that was certain of its own correctness, rather than from Science which by definition is founded on the principle that its current assumptions might be disproven or superceded in the future. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 00:44, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Right, right. I didn't mean to say that tech = camps, just that I thought the show was about technology (again not precisely true but I still had "Connections" on the brain) and that the episode ended at a camp. But don't elevate Science above any other form of human endeavor or passion, it has fallen again and again to certainty in its own correctness with pretty ugly consequences. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.234.6.239 (talk) 06:37, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure, but that is "bad science" as practised incompetently by "bad scientists", just as there are many "bad religion/religious practitioners", "bad politics/polititians" etc. Properly conducted, Science is never "certain" of anything, it only deals in likelihoods and the utility of its latest theories/models in giving answers that appear to correspond with reality - this is fundamental to its nature. Check out Falsifiability. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 01:22, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Rest In Peace John Lennon
Is the murderer of John Lennon, Mark David Chapman, still in prison? and if he is, is there any possibility he might face the death penalty? Which I surely doubt he would now after, 39 years, but, it is never too late.

And also, when John Lennon went to art school a while before the Beatles, did any of his sketches make it out into the public? Is there any existence of his sketches?

In addition, is there any suggestions of ways you can remember his life on this day? (for those who do not know, today is the 39th anniversary of when he was murdered in New York City)

It'd be nice if people can go to John Lennon's Talk Page and leave a "+" or anything in Respect of him. Thank you. Moptopstyle1 08:38, 8 December 2009 (UTC)


 * This is a misuse of wikipedia, as it has nothing to do with improving the article. Hence I removed it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 09:14, 8 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm going to answer your first question with a question... Have you read the Mark David Chapman article?  For the second, no, there is no chance he'd face the death penalty.  He's already been sentenced.  Dismas |(talk) 09:34, 8 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Go to google and enter ["john lennon" sketches] for starters. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 09:49, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

In the interest of accuracy, today is the 29th anniversary of John's passing, not the 39th. As to his artwork, he wrote two books in the sixties, In His Own Write and A Spaniard in the Works. Both books are illustrated with his own artwork.Chief41074 (talk) 15:20, 8 December 2009 (UTC)


 * If you want to see how people are remembering John Lennon, a good place to look would be Yoko Ono's website.

1st, my apologizes for saying it was the "39th Anniversary". I've been corrected that it's the 29th. Sorry. 2nd, I don't blame that thing for being deleted, I had a feeling that would happen. My apologizes once more. 3rd, Mark David Chapman, when first sentenced, should have been sentenced to the death penalty. 4th, thanks. Moptopstyle1 00:16, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
 * As noted in the Chapman article, he was charged with second degree murder and eventually pleaded guilty. Capital punishment was not on the table. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:04, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

And about the whole adding a "+" or something to his talk page, I did that to show respect, and that was the only thing I had available to me to do that sort of thing. My apologizes for breaking that rule, but I did it with Respect in my heart. I shan't do it again laddy! But I shall do this!!! "I bet you'd never guess what I'm in for?! HEE! HEE! HEE!" (That was for you John) Moptopstyle1  05:11, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No harm, no foul. Wikipedia just doesn't do "memorials". If you want to see what the Beatles were like at their peak, watch A Hard Day's Night and Help! for some insight. The latter was a pseudo-James Bond kind of thing, while the former is a nearly perfect parody of what Beatlemania was about. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:15, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for understanding, and I've seen and own the both of those movies. That's where I quoted the "You'll never guess what I'm in for" thing. It's from A Hard Day's Night. ha. Moptopstyle1 00:53, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Interpretation of Barbie Girl lyrics
In the song Barbie Girl, there is a line which goes "Come jump in, _____, let us do it again" where I can't be sure what the correct interpretation of the words in the blank is. According to the lyrics published in court documents, it is "be my friend," but after hearing the song many times, I have to say it sounds closer to "bimbo friend" (there is a mention of bimbo elsewhere in the song). Web sources are split relatively evenly between the two interpretations. Which interpretation is more correct? 128.2.251.173 (talk) 12:55, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Is it on youtube? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:26, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Here's the video. The line seems to be at 1:54, and sounds (and looks) like he's saying "bimbo friend". It's not unusual for published lyrics to differ from the performed lyrics; musicians vary the wording sometimes. Fribbler (talk) 14:46, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * That link doesn't work. It just takes you to the youtube page, where it says, "This video is not available in your country due to copyright restrictions." ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:13, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm. Works here in Oirland. Maybe try a related video? Fribbler (talk) 15:26, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

This site suggests "..bimbo friend..", which is what it sounds like on the video. Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:31, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, so this is not an advertisement for the Barbie Doll. "Bimbo" seems to appear several times in the lyrics. Obviously the doll manufacturers wouldn't use that term, but songwriters certainly might. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:39, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The article makes it obvious that it wasn't an advertising jingle and was in fact the point of a lawsuit, so I'm not sure why you're stating that fact as if it's something you've uncovered through detective work. Ironically enough, the tune now is used as a jingle by the very folks who (unsuccessfully) tried to sue it out of existence. Matt Deres (talk) 14:36, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Powerthirst bodybuilder
Who is the way over-the-top pumped bodybuilder in the Powerthirst video and other internet memes? Is that how he really looked or is the picture altered? DarkAudit (talk) 16:05, 8 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure that this is the source image. I can't track the picture any further back than that, though.  It may well be an altered picture, but it's within the realm of the possible: you can do a LOT if you just spend 40 hours/week in the gym and take life-threatening doses of steroids for a couple years.  --M @ r ē ino 15:02, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
 * If that picture is not altered (and that's a very big if) it is not the result of "40 hours/week in the gym and take life-threatening doses of steroids for a couple years". The only way levels of hypertrophy like that could have been achieved is by synthol/collagen injections, like Rich Piana (who despite admitted massive steroid use, heavy training, good genetic predisposition to muscle growth and collagen injections is still not even close to that size). 202.155.85.18 (talk) 06:07, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

How do I play this guitar tab?
Hi. I am new to the guitar and have been learning to play some riffs using guitar tabs. However I am confused by part of one tab shown below. e--- B--3--3--3-- G--2--2--0-- D--0--0--0-- A--- E--2--2--3-- Now, I understand that the 0s mean that you play an open string and that if there is no number you just don't play the string. What is confusing me is that this is the first time I have seen a situation where there is a string with no number (i.e. the A string) but numbers on the strings above and below. On a literal interpretation this would seem to suggest that you have to not pick the A string, but pick E, D, G and B (with D being an open string, and G being an open string on the last column of numbers). Is that what you are meant to do? If so, I didn't realise that you could do that. If that is what you do, can somebody please tell me what the technique to skip a string is called? For some reason, I can't find an explicit mention of how to interpret this on the guitar tab sites, perhaps it is so common that they don't think it needs explaining. Any help would be really appreciated. Thanks CreepingOnTheCeiling (talk) 17:12, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You've got it right. If I were reading it, I'd pluck the B, G, D strings with my fingers and the low E with my thumb. (Often the unplayed strings are marked with an "x".) You can't strum it easily, though; it's for picking. Something beginning guitarists don't realize sometimes: you don't have to use all six strings all the time. In fact, it's best not to a lot of the time. (Says the man who took that to an extreme and started playing ukulele instead.) --jpgordon:==( o ) 17:54, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You could also play it strum style. Your left hand could play it two different ways, using either the thumb OR index finger to play the bass notes on the low-E string, and the remaining fingers to hold the other strings depending on which was more comfortable.  I tend to use my thumb to play this chord.  The trick is you can "mute" the A-string with the thumb, basically when you play that F# note with your thumb, you roll it forward far enough to "just touch" the A-string which will mute it.  Muting the high-e string is also easy, just let your palm rest on it so it doesn't sound.  You'll find that with some practice you can mute just about any string while sounding the string immediately above or below it, which means you can play chords like this while strumming.  -- Jayron  32  18:06, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Incidentally, this is a D major chord, with the third in the bass, i.e. D/F#. Therefore, if you were to strum it, it wouldn't matter a lot if you allowed the A string to ring (because it is part of the chord), but normally you would want to mute the e sting. --NorwegianBluetalk 18:43, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for all your comments, much appreciated. All this talk of muting strings has made be think about something else. The whole song is Highway to Hell, and much later on the tab does have 'x' marks, which I understood to be mute symbols. There are similar marks in the tab for Walk This Way, specififcally here, where there is an open E followed by an x:


 * E ---
 * B ---
 * D ---
 * G ---2---2---
 * A -0-1-2---0-1-2-
 * E --0--x-
 * Now, I have been playing this by striking the E string and letting it ring briefly before muting it. I am doing this because I previously read that it what you are meant to do. There is also a part of the same tab that reads:


 * E --
 * B --
 * D --
 * G ---2--
 * A -0-1-2
 * E -0xxx-
 * Which I think means play an open E, then mute it, then play two more muted Es.


 * Putting it together with your comments, I am under the impression that:


 * A number followed by an 'x' means that you let it ring and then mute it
 * With a number followed by several 'x' symbols, the first 'x' means mute the previous note, the other 'x' symbols mean to keep playing the muted note
 * Or does it mean that you play the numbered note and then play each 'x' as a separate muted note
 * If there is no number or 'x', you don't hit the string, except:
 * If you have to hit strings above and below it, you mute it before hitting it
 * Sometimes you can just not mute it because it is part of the chord


 * Does that all sound correct? Thanks again for all your help. CreepingOnTheCeiling (talk) 20:08, 8 December 2009 (UTC)


 * One of the troubles with tablature is the lack of standardization; especially using the sort of tabs you find posted in online TAB databases, it is sometimes hard to tell exactly what is meant. The second problem with TAB is that it lacks any rhythm notation.  There's no way to tell if a series of notes is meant to be played straight, dotted rhythm, eighth notes, sizteenth notes, triplets, etc.  TAB is actually a pretty rough way to play music all alone.  My best recommendation is to play along with the TAB while the original track is playing; it will help a LOT to hear what the original performance sounded like, to understand the nuances in the way things work.  For example, the sort of "hammer mute" you note, where you sound a note then immediately mute it, versus a true mute, where the string is muted the whole time.  It should also be noted that mutes also sound different; you will here tone difference depending on which fret your finger is near when you mute, and some locations (the "chimes") are actually not mutable at all.  The best solution is to "play along" with the track while reading the tab, that way you can say for certain what every bend, slide, hammer, and mute is really supposed to sound like.  -- Jayron  32  20:25, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * If you follow Jayron's advice, you might also want to slow the original down a bit, without changing the pitch. This is easily done using Audacity: Effect|Change tempo. Enter bpm from and to, and enter a larger value for "from" than for "to". (Just for the purpose of slowing it down, it doesn't really matter if the beat-per-minute value you enter in the "from" field is correct, just make sure it's faster than the "to" value). I've found that trick useful for figuring out exactly what's going on when the music is fast. --NorwegianBluetalk 21:45, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Hi again. Just wanted to say thanks for all of the help, it has made things much clearer and I really appreciate it. I am planning to install Audacity and see if I can use it to record from the guitar too, just need to figure out the right cable! Thanks again CreepingOnTheCeiling (talk) 00:29, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Jazz song requests
I'm quickly becoming a fan of jazz music. Right now my hands down favorite is Blue in Green by Miles Davis. It's soft and smooth, easy and melancholy, with Bill Evans' light piano in the background, with soothing sounds from Mile's trumpet and John Coltrane's sax. See YouTube video here:

Anywho, I'm wondering if anyone could please point out similar songs to Blue in Green - similar mood and feel. I realize that's asking you to interpret the song from my point of view, but any close suggestions would be appreciated!

Thx Rangermike (talk) 19:20, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you want instrumental only, or vocal as well? (The entire Kind of Blue is pretty amazing, as is most any Miles from that period. Or Trane.) --jpgordon:==( o ) 20:12, 8 December 2009 (UTC)


 * A great companion album to Kind of Blue is John Coltrane's My Favorite Things. Its recorded during the same time period (two years later), features the same sort of modal composition as Kind of Blue, and the same sort of "cool jazz" feel to it.  The entire work is 4 covers of Broadway tunes, but the way that Coletrane imagines them makes them totally his.  If you liked Kind of Blue, you should also like My Favorite Things. -- Jayron  32  20:30, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Great leads, thanks! I'm looking for instrumentals. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rangermike (talk • contribs) 20:39, 8 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree with above. Also Miles Sketches of Spain, Modern Jazz Quartet No Sun in Venice, Mingus Ah Um, Lee Morgan The Sidewinder, Bennie Wallace Twilight Time, Coleman Hawkins Body and Soul, Stan Getz Focus. Pepso2 (talk) 20:53, 8 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Blue train - john coltrane, enjoy, also try searches using keyword 'blue note' Perry-mankster (talk) 21:06, 10 December 2009 (UTC)


 * One of "Blue in Green"'s harmonical characteristics is the hidden tonal centre. It is possible to name D minor as its tonal center, but you can't always hear it that way. The composition's chord progression sounds as though it had no clear beginning, ending, or determination. The chords serve more as changes of mood and hue, over related modal scales, than as functional elements of harmonic progression. Influences of Debussy can be heard, and Bill Evans certainly studied the language of Debussy. He composed a number of tunes lacking tonal centers, even lacking shifting modules of tonal centers. Check out his composition "Time Remembered", for example.
 * I also agree with Perry: Virtually all of the Blue Note Records recorded between the mid to late 1950s and late 1960s are worth listening to over and over again. Rudy Van Gelder was the recording engineer for most of this period, and he created an immediate, intimate sound, not unlike that of Kind of Blue. Most Blue Note albums from this period include moody ballad gems you might like as well, just a few examples off the top of my head: Wayne Shorter's "Infant Eyes" on Speak No Evil or "Teru" on Adam's Apple. Herbie Hancock's "Alone and I" on Takin' Off. There are dozens of others, of course.
 * The yearning sound of Miles's muted trumpet is responsible for a large part of "Blue in Green"'s mood. You might enjoy the album 'Round About Midnight as well, particularly the tracks "Bye Bye Blackbird" and "'Round Midnight". "Nuit Sur Les Champs-Élysées" from Ascenseur pour l'échafaud captures a very haunting yearning Milesy mood as well, but the record is almost entirely about mood, and doesn't include actual compositions such as "Blue in Green".  Someone mentioned Sketches of Spain above, and indeed I think you might want to listen to Miles's collaborations with Gil Evans in general, or, for that matter, any Gil Evans albums from the 1950s and 1960s. Johnny Coles's trumpet solo on Evans's arrangement of "I Will Wait for You" is reminiscent of Miles (but the recording includes vocals).
 * A lot of European trumpeters were influenced by Miles's fragile but thoughtful sound of lone and lorn. Examples include Kenny Wheeler, Enrico Rava, or, for a younger example: Paolo Fresu. Fresu's playing on Carla Bley's The Lost Chords find Paolo Fresu, especially on "Death of Superman/Dream Sequence, No. 1: Flying", is very Milesy-Blue-in-Greeny, though Bley's piano sounds more inspired by Satie than by Debussy on that particular track. ---Sluzzelin talk  16:34, 11 December 2009 (UTC)