Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2009 October 25

= October 25 =

Cha$e and Estate of Panic
Is there going to be a second season of the shows Cha$e and Estate of Panic and if so, when? (please be specific, month, day, and year) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.3.15.129 (talk) 04:23, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Bob Dylan song
I watched a movie a while back that featured a song that sounded just like Bob Dylan. I can't remember the title of the movie but I have a feeling it was a somewhat newish movie. I don't remember any of the song's lyrics except that he's singing something about "Romeo". Slower song. I know I'm not being very clear here but it's driving me nuts. I'd really like to look the song up so any help will be much appreciated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by GwenDylan (talk • contribs) 06:35, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Mark Knopfler doesn't sound like Bob Dylan much at all but could it be "Romeo and Juliet"? Dismas |(talk) 06:51, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Romeo is mentioned in a few Dylan songs ("Desolation row" for one, "Floater (Too much to ask)" for another). But there are tons of Dylanesque singers who have done songs mentuioning Romeo ("Chinese bones", by Robyn Hitchcock, for instance). ISTR the song "Floater"{ may have been in a movie fairly recently, so it could well be that. Grutness...wha?  21:52, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

movie about the suit which never gets dirty?
I have a faint memory of hearing about a movie which is about a man who invents a suit which never gets dirty, the man subsequently gets crushed by the dry cleaning-business. Did I dream this, or does it ring any bells?/Marxmax (talk) 12:02, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes. try The Man in the White Suit. Britmax (talk) 12:52, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Great! Thanks!/Marxmax (talk) 14:52, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Extra point try
In the Iowa/Michigan State football game yesterday, there was a score with no time left. The team flooded the field, but the officials required them to go for the PAT. I specifically remember this rule didn't exist before: during the Penn State/Michigan game in 2005, and many other games before it, the game was over after the touchdown. I'm referring to college football only - the NFL has always requires the PAT by my knowledge. Magog the Ogre (talk) 13:17, 25 October 2009 (UTC)


 * What exactly is your question? —Dromioofephesus (talk) 16:43, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Is this actually a rule? If so, when was it implemented? Magog the Ogre (talk) 17:11, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't know about college, but there is one exception to the rule in the NFL: When a touchdown is scored in overtime, the game ends immediately. There is no extra point try. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:26, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I know of other instances where teams didn't go for the PAT (Akron vs. Western Michigan '07 come to mind), but here's what the rulebook specifically says:

I would assume then that the game would end, unless the referee makes a claim that the other team can gain two points on the PAT (by returning a fumble/interception/etc) therefore tying the game, but other than that the game should have ended.  –Nav  talk to me or sign my guestbook 21:15, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Seems to me that's exactly what happened. Iowa went up 15-13 with the touchdown, so had Michigan State scored on the try the game would have gone to overtime. Thus, they had to attempt the try. anonymous6494 01:26, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * What a crazy rule. Or maybe not? I wonder, does anyone know when is the last time a PAT attempt was returned for 1 or 2 points by the defending team? Far as I know, this is not allowed in the NFL. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:37, 26 October 2009 (UTC)


 * It was standard (and still is in many American Football organizations) to allow the defending team to score something on an extra point(s) attempt. In the NFL, once there is a turnover during an extra point attempt (1pt or 2pt), the play is dead.  In college, I believe the play continues, allowing the player to run the ball for a touchdown at 2 or 1 points, depending on how many points the offence was attempting.  When I was in high school, running an intercepted or blocked kick PAT in for a touchdown scored a full 6 points. --  k a i n a w &trade; 17:48, 26 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The article called Convert describes some of the history of the PAT. One thing they left out was that the NFL only allowed 1 point, be it by kick, pass or run. The AFL did it the college way, i.e. they allowed 2 points on a pass or run. When the leagues merged, or sometime thereabout, the entire NFL adopted the 2-point option. But no runback in the pros on a PAT, although it is allowed on field goal attempt that falls short. The distinction in part has to do with the type of kick it is - a kick from scrimmage vs. a free kick. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:57, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, that raises another question - In college, does the clock run during a point-after try? Or is it stopped, and the defending team could grab the ball and run 100 yards with no time elapsed on the game clock? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:58, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The clock does not run on a PAT. Incidentally, the NFL did not add the two-point conversion until 1994 -- I witnessed in person the first NFL two-point conversion, scored by Tom Tupa on a fake kick. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:10, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Aha. Speaking of clocks, as incredible as it may seem, the NFL did not keep its official time on the stadium clock. It was merely an estimate, just like with soccer (another brilliant aspect to that sport). The AFL did, though, and when the leagues merged, the stadium clock became official. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:41, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Bugs, to answer your earlier question, I'm not sure that this was the last time it happened, but I the last one I know of was this. Santa Claus of the Future (talk) 23:00, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Here's one from last year.  –Nav   talk to me or sign my guestbook 04:30, 29 October 2009 (UTC)


 * To simplify this discussion, here are the basic rules on a PAT in the NCAA:
 * Kicked through the uprights: 1 point for the offense
 * Run or pass into the endzone: 2 points for the offense
 * Turned over to the defense, and returned to the other endzone: 2 points for the defense (always, even if the offense were only going for 1)
 * Saftey on PAT (really hard to do; basically only occurs if the defense attempts to return a PAT-turnover, leaves the endzone, and voluntarily returns to the endzone before being tackled): 1 point for the offense.
 * Since it is possible for either the offense or defense to score up to 2 points on a PAT, if the last touchdown of the game scores as time expires, and the two teams are within 2 points of each other either way, they MUST attempt the PAT. If the difference in score is greater than 2 points, they will not attempt it.  In the NFL, since the end-of-year tiebreaker scheme involves total points scored; every touchdown in regulation is required to play the PAT, even if scored at the end of regulation, and even if it will not make a difference in the overall score.  In the NFL, the defending team cannot score on a PAT, so a turnover becomes a dead ball.  Furthermore, just to confuse things, in the NFL, in sudden death overtime, there is never a PAT.  -- Jayron  32  03:20, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Features of a rap song
I just read some related articles like time signature, tempo, but got stuck. Could you help in figuring out the encyclopedic features of this rap song? Thanx. 85.132.109.246 (talk) 13:21, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * time signature 4/4, probably, if so: 191 bpm. --NorwegianBluetalk 22:00, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

songs about saving the earth
we're holding an event about raising awareness of environmental issues. we would have several breaks with songs and I'd want the audience to hear some inspirational songs about the environment while waiting. Could you introduce some well-known songs about the environment that we can play. I freely admit i'm ignorant of music and currently only know of "earth song" (Michael jackson). Any help would be MUCH appreciated! :-) 117.4.145.223 (talk)
 * Linkin Park's - What I've done? Jeffrey Mall (talk • contribs) - 15:35, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The British newspaper the Guardian has a weekly feature asking readers to recommend songs on a particular topic, from which they then make a Top 10. When they did the environment, they came up with this lot. REM's "Fall On Me" and Joni Mitchell's "Big Yellow Taxi" are especially good. --Richardrj talkemail 16:00, 25 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Because it was so early in the whole environmentalism thing, Midnight Oil's "Beds are Burning" is popular. Just don't show the video.  That guy is freaky looking. --  k a i n a w &trade; 16:10, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * That song is about giving land back to the Aborigines. Nothing to do with the environment as such (which I take to mean songs about rainforests, climate change, global warming, greenhouse gases and whatnot). --Richardrj talkemail 16:18, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I never listened to the words. I just know that MTV used the song to start a new "environmentalism is cool" campaign. --  k a i n a w &trade; 16:44, 25 October 2009 (UTC)


 * "That guy" is the Hon Peter Garrett AM MP, since 2007 the Australian Minister for the Environment, Heritage and the Arts. --  JackofOz (talk) 07:10, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * He is indeed - but that doesn't stop him dancing like a stick insect caught in mud :) Grutness...wha?  13:15, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * When his parliamentary career comes to an end, maybe he can become a supermodel. :)  -- JackofOz (talk) 19:47, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * ""Where have all the Flowers Gone" Although it also has an anti-war message, there is an environmental message too. I think it might have been Pete Seeger who wrote it. Pete Seeger wrote some damn fine environmental protest songs - worth looking at his work. The most famous one from the 60s is possibly "Eve of Destruction" by Barry McGuire. Actually now I look at it, it seems to have been common in protest songs of that era to combine an anti-war message with a save the planet message. There was so much shit happening in the 60s, young 'uns these days don't know they're born... Ahem. Coming a little more up to date, "The Last Resort" by the Eagles is also good. --TammyMoet (talk) 16:30, 25 October 2009 (UTC)


 * There's no particular ecology message in "Where have all the Flowers Gone", it's strictly about war, the song itself being an endless cycle, which of course is the point Seeger was trying to make when he wrote it. "Eve of Destruction" is also strictly about war and conflict, there's nothing specific about ecology in it. Only if you stretch the concept to think of warfare as damaging the environment, but that's true of most any human enterprise. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:40, 25 October 2009 (UTC)


 * More environment-oriented would be "Big Yellow Taxi", a Joni Mitchell song, best known for its tag line, "They paved paradise And put up a parking lot." ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:46, 25 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Joni's inspiration for the song was looking out the window of a hotel in Hawaii and seeing a large parking lot seemingly stretching to the mountains beyond. Never mind that the hotel she was in was arguably a bigger blight on the environment (or the scenery, at least) than the parking lot was. Which unintentionally presents the dilemma of environmentalism. We want to "save the world", but only if we can also live comfortably. I don't know if there are any songs about that, although Phil Ochs' "I'm a Liberal" speaks to a broader topic. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:51, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I already mentioned that one. Don't people read the whole thread before posting? --Richardrj talkemail 16:52, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * No, not when they're only interested in their own opinions. 209.251.196.62 (talk) 15:01, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Always enjoy hearing from the drive-bys, especially several days later. I actually did look through the previous comments but for some reason didn't see that one listed. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:37, 28 October 2009 (UTC)


 * How about Mercy Mercy Me (The Ecology)? -- k a i n a w &trade; 16:49, 25 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't know what is considered to be related to environmental issues per se. Not to digress, when people talk about "Save the Planet", would it not be perhaps more accurate to say, "Try to maintain environmental conditions that are tolerable to life"? I don't think the abiotic environment really cares if there is pollution or not. —Dromioofephesus (talk) 16:54, 25 October 2009 (UTC)


 * An excellent point, which highlights the basic flaw in the environmental argument, the conceit that we ourselves can "save the planet". The planet will do just fine, with or without us. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:58, 25 October 2009 (UTC)


 * We don't even mean "maintain environmental conditions that are tolerable to life", as life will do just fine under global warming (some species will go extinct and others will prosper). I think we mean "to maintain the same environment we have now" (or perhaps had a few centuries ago).  Unfortunately, that probably would require that we stop all population growth or go back to the population we had a few centuries ago, which isn't very popular politically. StuRat (talk) 23:54, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * That's it precisely. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:38, 28 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Emergency on Planet Earth (song)? Rockpock  e  t  21:20, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Some of the songs on this list may be of interest. --NorwegianBluetalk 22:15, 25 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Hurricane Smith's "Don't let it Die" might be a surprisingly early one to some people. Britmax (talk) 23:50, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

There are plenty of pro-environmental songs, in loads of different styles. Some that come to mind for me are: Grutness...wha?  00:02, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * "If a tree falls" (Bruce Cockburn). Any new-life Christian rocker who can coin the couplet "I.M.F./Dirty M.F." is OK by me :)
 * "River of orchids" (XTC). Turn the roads into long thin flower beds! Sweet and impressive.
 * "Operating manual for spaceship earth" (Donovan). As hippy-dippy as the name suggests, and colntains the frankly embarrassing lyric "Do be kind to your vegetable friends".
 * "Damn the dam" (John Hanlon). New Zealand folkie who wrote this excellent song as part of an anti hydroelectric wilderness-flooding scheme protest.
 * "Cuyahoga" (REM). Though only alluded to in the lyrics, this songs is about a river that became so polluted that it caught fire.
 * "There won't be no country music" (C.W. McCall). Yes, that C.W McCall. Amazingly, an astonishingly powerful, drawled, pro-environmentalist truckin' song. Lyrics are here. Track it down -it's impressive and memorable.


 * There is a song called "I'm a Stranger Here" by Five Man Electrical Band, which is about an alien visiting earth and complaining about all the destruction. Adam Bishop (talk) 19:08, 26 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Perhaps "Earth Song" by Michael Jackson. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.245.16.17 (talk) 22:07, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Syd Straw with 'People of earth' 194.221.133.226 (talk) 10:50, 27 October 2009 (UTC)


 * There's REO Speedwagon's "Love in the Future". A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 13:59, 27 October 2009 (UTC)


 * There's also a Randy Newman song that is about the Cuyahoga, "Burn On". The first song I thought of when reading this thread is that one that Melissa Etheridge wrote for An Inconvenient Truth, though I don't remember much about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Santa Claus of the Future (talk • contribs) 23:08, 28 October 2009 (UTC)