Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2010 April 11

= April 11 =

Premier League relegation/return statistics
Is there someplace on the intertubes where I can see statistics on Premier League relegation and rates of return? West Brom and Newcastle are back up immediately this year, and that makes me curious to see what the break down is... a nice graph with relegated teams on the Y-axis and years it took to return on the X-axis would be perrrrrrrrrrrrrfect. :-) 74.115.162.12 (talk) 00:21, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Couldn't find anything online but the data you need is available at List of Premier League seasons. Since i'm bored you get:
 * 1992-1993 - 2 x 1 season to return, 1 x 2 seasons to return
 * 1993-1994 - 1 x 12 seasons to return, 2 x not yet returned
 * 1994-1995 - 1 x 1 season to return, 1 x 2 seasons to return, 1 x 5 seasons to return, 1 x 9 seasons to return
 * 1995-1996 - 1 x 1 season to return, 1 x 4 seasons to return, 1 x not yet returned
 * 1996-1997 - 2 x 1 season to return, 1 x 2 seasons to return
 * 1997-1998 - 1 x 3 seasons to return, 2 x not yet returned
 * 1998-1999 - 1 x 1 season to return, 1 x 2 seasons to return, 1 x not yet returned
 * 1999-2000 - 1 x 6 seasons to return, 2 x not yet returned
 * 2000-2001 - 1 x 1 season to return, 2 x not yet returned
 * 2001-2002 - 1 x 1 season to return, 1 x 5 seasons to return, 1 x not yet returned
 * 2002-2003 - 1 x 1 season to return, 2 x 2 seasons to return
 * 2003-2004 - 1 x 5 seasons to return, 2 x not yet returned
 * 2004-2005 - 3 x not yet returned
 * 2005-2006 - 2 x 1 season to return, 1 x 2 seasons to return
 * 2006-2007 - 3 x not yet returned
 * 2007-2008 - 1 x 1 season to return, 2 x not yet returned
 * 2008-2009 - currently 2 x 1 season to return (West Brom / Newcastle are promoted) and 1 x not yet to return (most likely)
 * Overall there are 43 teams that have played in the Premier League, 7 of which have been in that league the entire time it has existed (Arsenal, Aston Villa, Chelsea, Everton, Liverpool, Man Utd, Spurs) by my read-through of (List of FA Premier League clubs)194.221.133.226 (talk) 08:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

since i'm really bored...
 * 22 teams have been relegated only to not have returned since been relgated. That gives you 45% of teams relegated have yet to return, 30% return within one season (15 clubs) and 8% after 2 seasons (4 clubs) - note not cumulative. Cumulatively speaking it takes around 6 seasons before 50% of the clubs that were relegated are back in the Premier League, but after that it's only at 55% after 12 seasons, since a good 45% of clubs never return! 194.221.133.226 (talk) 09:07, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

note that there have been 49 relegated teams, but some teams have been relegated and promoted more than once hence there been less teams overall (43) that have played in the league than there are teams that have been relegated and promoted. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 09:11, 11 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Wow! Outstanding, thank you! That's interesting that 6 years seems to be a bit of a cliff. I guess by that point you've largely replaced your roster and the new lads are from the Championship League talent pool so you kinda get stuck? Thanks again! 61.161.170.254 (talk) 09:39, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

What I find is there are some teams (West Bromich Albion being a key example) that are seemingly 'too good' for the Championship but also 'not good enough' for the Premier League). They seem to yo-yo back and forth. Sunderland are similar but somehow I don't count them as the same yo-yo type team. Crystal Palace did it a few times too. As for 'why' my theory is similar to yours - when a club gets relegated they have largely a squad that is much better than the league below, so provided they can retain the squad they stand a good chance of re-promotion. If they don't, however, with every passing season it seems to be less 'guaranteed' that they'll return. Some clubs (Leeds United for example) suffered hugely financially and so ultimately had their fate decided for them. They'll be back one day though no doubt, too many fans and too big a club not to end up back in the Premiership (though I suppose that's what Notts Forest and Sheff Wednesday fans would argue too!) 194.221.133.226 (talk) 09:51, 11 April 2010 (UTC)


 * West Brom aren't a yo-yo club, they're a yam yam club. The  parachute payment system gives relegated clubs an advantage over others in their new league.  There is discussion about extending these payments to a period of four years.--Frumpo (talk) 16:29, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

With or Without You
In the U2 song "With or Without You", the lyrics say "See the stone set in your eyes, see the thorn twist in your side, I wait for you" and then "Sleight of hand and twist or fate, on a bed of nails she makes me wait, and I wait without you", but I've noticed that Bono in the first part says "I waits for you" and the second part he says "And I waist without you". Can anyone tell me if Bono actually says "Waits" and "Waist" instead of "Wait" in the song? David Pro (talk) 15:16, 11 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't know the song, but let me run these two possibilities by you and see if either of them make sense: (1) He messed up [it happens] and meant to say "waits" again; (2) He said "waste", as in "I'm wasting away" or something like that. Also, have you tried to google the song? Almost any song you can think of has lyrics somewhere on the web. Although that's not necessarily authoritative, as the lyrics often from average citizens listening to the song. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:25, 11 April 2010 (UTC)


 * And, even if the lyrics are "official", that may just mean they list what the singer was supposed to sing, not what they actually sang. There can also be variation from one performance to the next. StuRat (talk) 15:31, 11 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Especially if the song is recorded "live", where mistakes can end up staying for posterity if they don't do a retake. Or if the singer decides to change the words, which also can happen. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:36, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

He's singing... "i'll wait for you" and then in the second he's singing "i'll wait without you" and he has an Irish accent so you're hearing a pronunciation of a word you're not used to. Having just listen to the song there's no doubt he's singing "i'll wait for you" and "i'll wait without you" (mine being from the 1980-1990 best of US album). ny156uk (talk) 16:15, 11 April 2010 (UTC)


 * You might find the mondegreen article has some insight into why you heard what you though you heard. Astronaut (talk) 18:59, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Shave and a haircut...
I'm trying to locate a file of the music that "shave and a haircut - two bits" is usually set to. In the UK we have many words set to this music, but what I remember is "barm tiddy batch cake - brown bread" from my childhood. Can anyone help with this please? --TammyMoet (talk) 19:13, 11 April 2010 (UTC)


 * There is one at the bottom of shave and a haircut. Adam Bishop (talk) 19:20, 11 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Well we really do have an article on everything! Thank you! Yours, one gobsmacked Brit. --TammyMoet (talk) 19:36, 11 April 2010 (UTC)


 * There's a scene in Who Framed Roger Rabbit where the antagonist and the rabbit "perform" that short bit. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:39, 11 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Seems to be used frequently by Amtrak trains as they depart the station: Fittingly, the tune is used at both the beginning and ending of this song which dates from 1915 when the tune was presumably still new. The original words to that little tune apparently were "shave and haircut, shampoo". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:06, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Snooki Polizzi's income
According to this morning's Parade magazine, Snooki Polizzi, of MTV's Jersey Shore, earns $2200 per year. Are we really supposed to believe that these guys aren't being paid for their appearance on the show? Woogee (talk) 21:40, 11 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Or maybe she claimed $2200 of income last year; that's a big difference than earning $2200 in total. There are legal ways of reducing your declarable income in terms of filing your federal income taxes.  The entire system of deductions is so complex that it is impossible to go into it all here, but when a magazine reports "So and so earned $XXXX last year" what they are really saying is "We looked at the publicly availible tax returns of so-and-so, and they claimed $XXXX of declarable income".  -- Jayron  32  02:53, 12 April 2010 (UTC)


 * According to this article, she earns as much as $10,000 for a single private appearance (club openings, conventions, etc...).  caknuck °  needs to be running more often  06:43, 16 April 2010 (UTC)