Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2010 February 15

= February 15 =

Director of animated films
I was watching an old Bugs Bunny cartoon on TV the other day, and I found it curious that someone (Chuck Jones) was credited as its "director". In general terms, I understand what a director does when working on a live-action film or on a live-action television show. What does a director do, however, in the case of an animated film or an animated TV show (cartoon)? Does anyone have any ideas? I can't imagine that they "direct" the voice actors, in the same way that a director directs live actors in a film or a TV show ... although, I guess that that is possible. But what exactly would there be to direct, in that case? I have read the Wikipedia articles on both film director and animation director. These did not answer my questions. In fact, the latter article specifically states: "The role (of animation director) is not the same as the director of an animated film". Thanks for any input. (64.252.68.102 (talk) 00:32, 15 February 2010 (UTC))
 * The director position in old WB cartoons was responsible for the pacing, keyframe animation, and other chores, depending on the director and the people he was working with. While the screenwriter (see Michael Maltese for one that worked on many of the best-known Warner Bros. cartoons) would lay out the basic plot and dialogue (sometimes in conjunction with the director), the director was the one that, well, took a screenplay and turned it into something that made you laugh. His job was essentially to have a vision of the completed film and work with all the various other folks to make that vision into something concrete. It's a bit like being a "normal" director, except that due to the format of the medium, this kind of director had much more control over every bit of the film - literally posing the actors as he wished. Matt Deres (talk) 01:25, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * That describes well, the director position of the animation studios in general, not just WB. In the Woody Woodpecker DVD set, Walter Lantz (in segments from his 1950s TV show) explains in detail what the director and the other members of the development team do. Where an animation director differs from a traditional film director starts with the fact that the cartoon director is skilled in drawing and animating the cartoon character himself. He is basically capable of wearing any hat the cartoon needs except possibly providing the voices. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:22, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Here's a Chuck Jones letter in which he writes about a recording session. Pepso2 (talk) 03:41, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the above information ... it was very helpful ... and much appreciated. Thank you. (64.252.68.102 (talk) 16:18, 20 February 2010 (UTC))

Nadia Comăneci
Nadia Comăneci was the first person to earn perfect 10 scores (at the 1976 Summer Olympics). Have any others after her also earned the perfect 10 score? If so, who has done so? Does Wikipedia have an article on perfect 10 score Olympians? Thank you. (64.252.68.102 (talk) 01:07, 15 February 2010 (UTC))


 * I seem to recall Mary Lou Retton from 1984 in Los Angeles.209.244.187.155 (talk) 01:18, 15 February 2010 (UTC)


 * This question has been answered before. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:56, 15 February 2010 (UTC)


 * According to Gymnastics at the 1984 Summer Olympics – Women's artistic individual all-around, Mary Lou Retton scored perfect 10s on two of the 6 disciplines (floor exercises and vault) while at the same games in the same competition, Ecaterina Szabo scored a perfect 10 on Balance Beam. There's a box on the right side of the screen that will let you page through the Women's All around scoring for various Olympics. A quick scan indicates that atheletes have scored perfect 10s at other games at other times, but Nadia Comaneci is the first I can find to have scored them, she got two in 1976, and another in 1980. In 1988, two competitors scored two perfect 10s each in the same competition. There were no further perfect 10s in any more Women's All-Arounds. That's a total of 9 perfect 10s in the history of the Woman's All Around, and since the scoring changed before the 2008 Olympics, it won't happen again. Since the 1960's, the All Around has been a seperate competition from the individual apparatus events, so I did not check to see if any women have scored perfect 10s on individual events, nor did I check the mens. If interested, the links are all in these articles for an interested person to do so. -- Jayron  32  02:00, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * We now have an article: Perfect 10 (gymnastics). Clarityfiend (talk) 04:58, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. However, my original question was intended to be a bit more broad ... that is, for any Olympic sport (not just gymnastics). Or is it the case that gymnastics is indeed the only Olympic sport that is (rather, was) scored on a perfect 10 point scale? Also, if several people earned perfect 10 scores in rope-climbing and sidehorse vault in 1924 ... why is Nadia Comăneci always cited as the "first" perfect 10? I don't know for sure about rope-climbing ... but the sidehorse vault is certainly under the umbrella of "gymnastics" (and the rope-climbing event probably was, too). Thanks. (64.252.68.102 (talk) 15:53, 15 February 2010 (UTC))


 * To answer for Nadia Comaneci, her 10's came in the Women's Gymnastics All-Around, which is the "glamour sport" of the games; in the U.S. it is usually the most watched event on television. Also, "rope climbing" was a very short-lived event, so I doubt many people count it as a notable event in Gymnastics.  Additionally, I don't know of any other sport that is or was judged on the same 10-point scale as Gymnastics used to be.  Other judged sports use their own scoring systems, often based on assigning points to completed elements, and often with a multiplier for "Degree of difficulty" or some similar system.  Such systems do not owe themselves to having a "perfect score" like a 10.0; they may have a theoretical upper limit but I don't think that such scores are thought of as either achievable or significant.  Other times, the "perfect score" is more of a "par score"; in Ski Jumping for example, 120 points is cited as a "perfect score" because it is the score you get for hitting the K-line exactly and recieving maximum scores from judges; however it is quite possible to exceed 120 points in Ski Jumping; there is no theoretical upper limit.  Figure skating used to use a 6.0 system similar to the 10-point system in gymnastics, but they too abandoned that at around the same time in favor of a more complex assigned-points-based system.  So basically you have a case where the 10-point system was unique to gymnastics, and it isn't even used anymore.  -- Jayron  32  16:09, 15 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I can agree with much of what you say. But the fact that Women's Gymnastics All-Around is a "glamour sport" and a TV ratings cash cow ... does not negate the fact that others won perfect 10 scores first ... and in the sport of gymanstics itself, to boot (namely, Albert Séguin in 1924).  Therefore, Albert Seguin should rightfully be cited as the first perfect 10 Olympic gymnast, I would think.   (64.252.68.102 (talk) 16:37, 15 February 2010 (UTC))
 * Well, from the title of Gymnastics at the 1924 Summer Olympics – Men's rope climbing, it appears that both events were considered to be gymnastics, so who the first perfect 10 was would depend on which event came first. In any case, Comaneci was at least the first woman. Clarityfiend (talk) 21:49, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Jayne Torvill and Christopher Dean got perfect 6.0s at the 1984 Winter Olympics. That's a different scoring system, of course.  Woogee (talk) 19:12, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, and had they not skated last, they probably would have got 5.9s, thanks to the screwy system in use then. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:05, 16 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Elena Shushonova and Dmitri Bilozertchev did win perfect 10 in their respective apparatus in Seoul games I think it was in 88 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.130.123.12 (talk) 06:13, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the above information ... it was very helpful ... and much appreciated. Also, many thanks to Clarityfiend for starting the Perfect 10 (gymnastics) article ... that was a great addition to Wikipedia. Thanks again to all! (64.252.68.102 (talk) 16:24, 20 February 2010 (UTC))

has there ever been an auto race where *everyone* crashed?
I mean, absolutely nobody finished. this rose out of a discussion with a good friend who follows NASCAR. He and some others were talking about a humongous chain of wrecks last week, and it made me ask what happens if everyone wrecks in a race. My buddy said they can't end a race without a winner - which I presume is true. But, it got me to thinking, has this ever happened where every single car wrecked? It seems like it'd be hard, even in Hazzard County, but one never knows.209.244.187.155 (talk) 01:29, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The 1996 Monaco Grand Prix had only three finishers. Clarityfiend (talk) 02:04, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow, thanks; whoever did the write-up did a very good job of describing the action, too, BTW.209.244.187.155 (talk) 02:34, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * This happened in Talladega Nights, but I don't know if they were intending to strictly follow the rules (since the outcome was a comedic plot point). In that case, the last person who was in the lead (and stayed in their car) won. Adam Bishop (talk) 03:30, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I didn't get that. Didn't all racers leave their cars? If my car crashes I'm gonna get the heck out of there, what if it was on fire or something? 134.126.192.188 (talk) 21:51, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Just by the way, it happened once in the annual Oxford and Cambridge boat race in London, England, that both boats sank. Rather than declare no winner, they held the race again the following day. --Anonymous, 05:50 UTC, February 15, 2010.
 * In most cases, in auto racing, if there are a huge number of crashes in a race, it is because weather conditions have become unsuitable for racing. Often, the race will be stopped at that point, before everyone can crash out; if everyone did crash, the results would be backed up one or two laps, before the mayhem began, to determine a winner. The 2003 Brazilian Grand Prix is a good example: heavy rain began falling mid-way through the race, cars began crashing right and left, and the raced was stopped. It took two days to figure out that Giancarlo Fisichella - one of those who crashed - was the actual winner. In the case of the 1996 Monaco Grand Prix, the conditions were treacherous: the track - difficult in the best of conditions - was extremely slick because of intermittent light rain, but the crashes happened sequentially and not in one fell swoop, so there was no reason to stop the race. When a race is down to a few cars, the remaining drivers will usually ease up a bit, knowing they have a points or podium finish secured if they can just reach the finish line; but even when letting up, a few more drivers crashed out in Monaco - it was that hard to keep a car on the track! --Xuxl (talk) 16:32, 15 February 2010 (UTC)


 * The official NASCAR rules are not published. So it's difficult to say what they would do in that situation. They probably have a rule that handles the case where all drivers are disqualified, but if it's never occurred, it's tough to say for sure.
 * However, eliminated drivers are ranked on the percentage of the race they were able to complete. (See these recent results, chosen at random. Notice how even the drivers who didn't finish are ranked.) So presumably even if no drivers completed the race, whoever had gotten closest would be the winner. APL (talk) 16:44, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

girl
whos the girl on the LEFT in this pic

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/97879/dana-and-si-models.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thekiller35789 (talk • contribs) 06:20, 15 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Maybe Julie Ordon. Its hard to tell, because makeup and hair color can really change an appearence, but given the title of the image, she's the closest I can find.  Do a google image search and decide for yourself.  -- Jayron  32  06:35, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

olympics
has anybody won a gold medal in both winter and summer olympics? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.0.26.151 (talk) 12:35, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Eddie Eagan. See also List of Olympians who won medals in the Summer and Winter Games. ---Sluzzelin talk  13:02, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Not to be confused with Eddie "The Eagle" Edwards, a ski jumper who was slow that he started down the ramp during the winter games, and by the time he landed, it was summer. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:05, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Eddie was on TV last week. A true British sportsman. When shall his glory fade? Alansplodge (talk) 23:13, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Not soon. He was part of the torch relay for the Vancouver Olympics. DJ Clayworth (talk) 03:35, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Good old Eddie the Eagle. He was a hoot. And how many other ski jumpers get invited to the Tonight Show?←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 04:58, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Christa Rothenburger won medals in Summer and Winter Olympics in the same year, but they weren't both golds. Woogee (talk) 19:14, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * "Clara Hughes is a Canadian cyclist and speed skater, and has won multiple Olympic medals in both sports. That makes her one of four athletes to win medals at both the Summer and Winter Games of the Olympics, and currently the only person in history to win multiple medals at both the summer and winter games" But gold only in skating. DJ Clayworth (talk) 03:38, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

American Football (Soccer) Coaches, players
I am attempting to add an American Soccer Coach to Wikipedia. Please tell me how to include a Football Player info box that I see on all the players and coaches. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Natasha4585 (talk • contribs) 12:40, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Just edit the page you see one in that you like, copy it, then paste it into the article you're creating, changing the particulars. Woogee (talk) 19:16, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * For greater clarity: this sort of thing is done via a Template. When you edit a page containing a template, you'll see a sequence of characters starting with " " after the name, while others, like Infobox, may have many lines of parameters and then finally the "}}".  Each particular template has a corresponding page where it is explained, in this case the page Template:Infobox. But the documentation for the more complicated templates may be hard to follow. If you have more questions, I suggest asking on the Help desk rather than here.  --Anonymous, 09:37 UTC, February 16, 2010.

Weaver in Avatar
Grace (Sigourney Weaver) in Avatar seems exceedingly hostile to Sully even up until she's closing the door to his module/pod (both he and she try to get in their last insulting quips), yet the moment they meet as avatars, she is only mildly standoffish, if not just merely sarcastic. Did anyone else catch this, and is there any good explanation for this?  DRosenbach  ( Talk 17:37, 15 February 2010 (UTC)


 * No doubt there are dozens of sites that have sprung up to discuss the movie in question. This is not one of them.  -- LarryMac  | Talk  17:48, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Y'know Larry -- your quickness to chastise is pretty incongruous with the general attitude towards questions like these in the past. Either you are unfamiliar with the ref desk (and exact regulation without concern for ubiquitous practice) or you were over exuberant in your stifling of what you perceived as reckless fantalk (and neglected to perceive an established editor as a non-threat).  DRosenbach  ( Talk 18:13, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Excuse me. Care to check my history before you mouth off?  Next time I'll just remove the inappropriate question without comment.  -- LarryMac  | Talk  19:21, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Larry is right that this question was not appropriate for the reference desk. I chose to answer it anyway for the hell of it, so I suppose I'm contributing to the problem. APL (talk) 19:25, 15 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Once they get back to serious work she's pretty hostile to him again. (She was clearly pissed at having an ignorant soldier along when they went out to collect root samples.)
 * Presumably spending a few minutes relaxing as an avatar improves her mood. And besides, it's hard to be rude to someone who is simultaneously experiencing an alien world for the first time, and regained the use of their 'legs' for the first time in several years.
 * It's not difficult to imagine that someone's first time in an Avatar would be a fun event, even if you didn't generally like the person. APL (talk) 17:59, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * She probably feels a lot better with lungs that have never known nicotine. :)  Woogee (talk) 19:16, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Possibly a plot hole. Possibly because she enjoys her avatar body so much, it 'reboots' her mood.  Possibly because she's genuinely impressed with how quickly Sully gets used to his avatar body. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 19:51, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I suspect the reverse of a plot hole; in fact I suspect a foreshadowing of a major theme. The movie picks up on the theme that the kind of body you are in affects the mind (it's been a theme of avatar-science-fiction since at least Call me Joe. Grace in her Avatar body is different from Grace in her human body. Although not that different, remember. She is still pretty disparaging of him in the jungle. DJ Clayworth (talk) 03:32, 16 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I suspect that it is a movie that spent more money on special effects than writers. Then, spent more money on big-name stars than good voice actors.  The end result is a mash of very pretty but hollow entertainment that people want to discuss over and over to avoid realizing that it was just a brief piece of fantasy fiction. --  k a i n a w &trade; 15:14, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * They spent more on expensive things than they did on cheap things? Shocking!
 * Hollywood film not as deep as some people want? Also shocking!
 * APL (talk) 16:01, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with Clayworth that the movie draws from a long tradition in written science fiction. Especially short stories. Both from avatar-related stories like Call me Joe, but also the surprising number of stories involving an team of anthropologists from Earth making contact with natives who are [weird in some way] and then something goes wrong and our heroes must fight for their very survival. It's a science fiction trope I don't recall seeing in film before, but have been waiting for. APL (talk) 16:01, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

The beauty of Wikipedia reference desk is to ask what you feel like asking and get answers for the questions. I feel there is nothing wrong with the question and we should spend more time in answering questions than deciding if the question is appropriate or not. We are not to decide whats appropriate or not. I have seen more inapproriate questions here. And whats appropriate for one neednt be so for another. Now coming to the answer, I believe she was rude to him in real life becos she doesnt like a person whom she beleives in incapable of delivering results due to his physical deformity. however in the avatar life she is amazed by his antics and his never say die spirit that she begrudgingly tones it down. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.130.123.30 (talk) 06:33, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Despite the fact that we often answer borderline questions, there are rules, and this is 'not a place where you can "ask what you feel like asking". There are rules up at the top of the page. APL (talk) 17:38, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * None the less, I'm not sure why this question isn't appropriate. If anyone had known about a statement made by one of the actors about said hostility, they could have linked to it and answered the question very well.  Even lacking that (as appears to be the case), the responses are generally thoughtful and well reasoned.  They bring up film topics like "foreshadowing" and "Plot hole" that DRosenbach may not have considered.  Overall, it seems like a moderately  informative response to an OK question. Buddy431 (talk) 04:32, 18 February 2010 (UTC)