Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2010 May 22

= May 22 =

Music: Why don't notes progress like this: A B C#, D#, F, G ? (or C, D E, F#, G#, A#)?
I've discovered something quite bizarre about music...

I've been researching why it *appears* that there's no E# and B#. And it seems that the explanation is that B# really is C and that E# really is F. And if you sit down and play all 12 semitones in an octave it plays intuitively and makes musical sense. So far so good.

However, looking at a stave or a keyboard, here's where things seem to go horribly wrong.

Looking at a piano, if we start on a 'C' which is a white key, and we ascend playing the white keys, we play C, D, E, which are all **two** semitones apart, but the next key, 'F', is not, so in fact the next logical key is F#, then G# and then A#.

When I in fact play the notes in that order (C, D, E, F#, G#, A#, C..) it sounds right to me.

And yet the conventional order (C, D, E, F..) also sounds right but this could be because it's now ingrained.

Can someone confirm or correct this? And if this is correct, is anyone aware of any movements to restructure musical nomenclature so that it's more 'correct'? Rfwoolf (talk) 00:09, 22 May 2010 (UTC)


 * What you have discovered is a whole tone scale. That set of pitches is not a "conventional" scale as per the traditional set of scale modes (ionian, dorian, phrygian, lydian, mixolydian, aeolian, locrian). Instead, it is an altered scale. From an entirely scalar perspective, here is an attempt to explain the reason modes are the preferred method of organizing pitches. Part of the reason that not every interval is two semitones apart is that the single semitone allows for some degree of tension and resolution. For example, when playing an ionian (aka major) scale, the "ti" and "do" drive some degree of resolution. In the key of C major, (C D E F G A B C) there is a drive for resolution moving from B to C. That drive for resolution is what makes a major scale sound "normal." That is the reason some of the intervals are just a half-step (one semitone) while others are whole-steps (two semitones). The whole tone scalefudged which you speak of doesn't have that same sense of tension and resolution.
 * From a chord based perspective, an ionan (or other modal) scale creates a major chord (in tonic position), which is a stable chord. The whole tone scale, however, will create an augmented chord. This type of chord is far more unstable and doesn't sound nicely on the ears. On a related note, a diminished scale (which alternates half step, whole step, half step, whole step, etc.) lines up to create a fully diminished 7 chord, which is also extremely unstable and not pleasing to the ears.
 * As far as I am aware (and I am a musician of over a decade with very strong classical music theory training) there is no movement to speak of to change this musical nomenclature simply because the major scale and its modes are simply the most natural way to hear a set of pitches, where the whole tone scale doesn't quite sit nicely on the ears.
 * I'm afraid this may come off as rambly and unhelpful. Hopefully, I was able to answer your question. If not, I hope I was at least able to give you or another reference desk associate a starting point to work from. 99.53.113.16 (talk) 03:08, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Does the Janko keyboard count as a movement towards restructuring? It's rationally, symmetrically arranged without bias towards a particular scale. The top row goes A, B, C#, D#, F, G and the second row down (yes, the keyboard has rows) goes C, D, E, F#, G#, A#. Nothing to do with renaming the notes, though.81.131.69.118 (talk) 13:57, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, modern instruments are tuned to equal temperament. The problem is that harmonically, if you tune an insturment for perfect harmonics, 12 semitones doesn't equal a perfect octave; it's off by about a quarter tone.  For instruments like the violin, this isn't a problem; you just play the note that fits harminically with what you are playing.  For a piano, this is a BIG problem, since if you tuned the strings to play harmonically perfect in one key, it doesn't work in any other key.  To make instruments playable, they have to be "tempered", that is the little differences between the harmonically perfect semitones and the octave has to fudged out somehow.  Harmonically speaking, a B# is NOT identical to a C; it just works out that way in equal temperament.  Older instruments were tuned to different tempering schemes such as meantone temperament, which was organized a bit differently.  -- Jayron  32  04:06, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Slightly off-topic, and it certainly doesn't constitute a movement towards a new nomenclature, but the keyboard of a chromatic button accordion is arranged without the diatonic asymmetry of a standard piano keyboard layout. See also the article on diatonic and chromatic. (The composer Francis Lai had the keyboards of his electronic synthesizers laid out like a chromatic button accordion).
 * The unit cent somewhat ignores the tonal hierarchy dictated by Western nomenclature, but its main use is to compare different tuning systems, especially those outside Western tonality.
 * One movement that attempted to break through the standard tonal hierarchy was that of the dodecaphonists, but I am not aware of any changes of nomenclature within the twelve-tone movement either. They still used the same musical notation and nomenclature.
 * Finally, see also this archived question, somewhat related and linking some of the ideas and concepts mentioned by 99.53. ---Sluzzelin talk  08:24, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Identify this song
I have been trying to figure out the band that plays this song for years. The song is from the documentary Cracker Crazy: The Invisible History of The Sunshine State (http://www.nothingofficial.com/video/70660/Cracker-Crazy-The-Invisible-History-of-The-Sunshine-State). The song starts at exactly 40:21.

Can someone *please* figure out who made this song? The credits at the end say nothing, the web site says nothing. It's not from the "excerpts of the Florida folklife collection" as it states in the credits at the end of the movie. This song is obviously modern. Another song from the same band plays through the end credits but I am just trying to find out who these people are.

PLEASE help me find this band, it's been bothering me for a long time. And their songs are pretty amazing. PLEASE use all of your resources to help me!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.245.26.46 (talk) 06:54, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe it's just me, but the video says it's disabled for embedding and the youtube frame is not the regular one with the menu button so I can't even get the direct youtube address from it. Do you have a youtube html for it? All I could find on youtube was the trailer for the movie, not the movie itself. TomorrowTime (talk) 07:35, 22 May 2010 (UTC)


 * When was this "Cracker Crazy" video made? I listened to the lyrics and put a few of the phrases into Google.  Most of my searches turned up crap but this one yielded a single hit which was to this site.  The page mentions a Brad Postlethwaite who is a member of Snowglobe.  It says that those line belongs to a song on an album called Welcome to the Occupation.  That's all I could come up with but I'm not even sure it's the same song that is being talked about.  Dismas |(talk) 07:52, 22 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Got it! The song is called "Leaves" and it is on the album I mentioned, Welcome to the Occupation by Postlethwaite.  Dismas |(talk) 07:59, 22 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you SO much! You have no idea how frustrating trying to find out who that guy was. I will also have to check out Snowglobe. As to the person who couldn't view the video, I'm not sure why that video isn't working for you. Please do check it out though because it's a great documentary. Thanks again!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.245.26.46 (talk) 14:18, 22 May 2010 (UTC)


 * You're most welcome. Glad I could help.  Dismas |(talk) 23:24, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Nas Untitled album sales :)
Hello everybody ! Maybe could someone edit a Nas (rapper) topic and tell what are the newest sales of his last album Untitled ? Thanks a lot, much love ") —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ernutis (talk • contribs) 08:40, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Chris Foss Asimov artwork
Do any of Chris Foss' artworks for Asimov books have any correlation with the plots of the books he's done the art for? I know that was a confusing sentence, but I was just wondering.-- Editor510  drop us a line, mate  09:01, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The Chris Foss article says "These images are suggestive of science fiction in general rather than depictions of specific scenes from books, and therefore can be—and have been—used interchangeably on book covers." I also read pretty much the same thing elsewhere, that Chris Foss' artwork was chosen by the publishers to attract the buying public, rather than having any correlation with plot elements.   Astronaut (talk) 10:22, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Foss' artwork for Asimov's books almost never reflected the content, but an argument could be made for the Foundation series, which usually featured generic spaceships. However, I think anyone would be hard pressed to find a link between The Caves of Steel and Foss' mutant guitar thingy (one of my favourites). Steve  T • C 23:58, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Nike Commercial
What are those new Nike shoes for men that as the commercial where they are showing girls in short leg clothing (such as mini skirts, short shorts, bikinis) in serving, cleaning a house, etc., while they are dancing? The song is playing through out and is the only audio. At the end, a man walks by a girl on the beach and a narrator says "Also available for men" or something like that. This is for Nike. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.3.123.220 (talk) 09:51, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Complete guess - Nike Air? (I fixed your link)  Chevy  monte  carlo  19:56, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Its actually not Nike, its a Reebok shoe called.... the EasyTone. Is there anything in specific you'd like to know about it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by SugarTitön (talk • contribs) 18:28, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

The New Pornographers
At a TNP gig in Berlin, the lineup included 2 women - one was Kathryn Calder, but the other wasn't Neko Case - any clues who this might be? She was on backup vocals and tambourine duties for the most part. Who is she? Aaadddaaammm (talk) 09:57, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

True Blood closing credits music
What was the blues song playing with the closing credits to last week's finale of True Blood in the UK? I'm almost certain I heard the same song in a music programme (probably on Sky Arts) within the past few weeks, so it sounded really familiar and I'm thinking perhaps it was by B.B. King or another well known blues artist. Astronaut (talk) 10:35, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
 * If it was the season 2 finale Beyond Here Lies Nothin' (True Blood) then it is a Bob Dylan song of the same name apparently.  meltBanana  12:02, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's it. No wonder it sounded familiar, I was playing theTogether Through Life album in the car recently.  Astronaut (talk) 18:42, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Sci-Fi movie help
Require help in identifying a film about a dystopian future where there is no vegetation, and there is a very poor quality of life, and every man and woman has a device plugged in their hand that “told them how many years, months, days and even hours and minutes they have left until they die. When the counter reachs zero, they REALLY die. Another particularity about this film is the fact that the society uses time (lifetime) as a currency. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.102.43.237 (talk) 14:33, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Logan's Run comes to mind but doesn't sound quite right. I know I've seen it though.   Dismas |(talk) 15:47, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Doesn't ring a bell, but take a look at Category:Dystopian films and see if it's in there. Astronaut (talk) 18:45, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Logan's Run involves devices in the hand that tell you how long you have to live, but beyond that it doesn't fit (you can't trade life and the quality of life is very high and kept so by not letting anyone get old so the population is kept low). I don't recognise the description. --Tango (talk) 21:31, 22 May 2010 (UTC)


 * No Blade of Grass? Everard Proudfoot (talk) 21:07, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
 * There's no grass in that future but there is vegetation – and no technological infrastructure for the scheme described. —Tamfang (talk) 07:20, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, but it's neither of the above mentioned titles; and i've gone through the entire list of dystopian films on wikipedia, and none of them match. Maybe this might help: The main scene I remember was this guy in a casino, and he’s freaking out b/c he’s losing, and he tries to buy a drink from a hostess, but when she swipes his device, it doesn’t go through. She says “this one’s on the house….you’re dead”, and the guy drops dead. There’s this other guy in the movie who’s mother ran a store, and she never checked how many credits she had, and she was always helping people out. When he finally made her check, they realized that she only had a few weeks to live, so he sets off on this journey to find some forbidden city where there are some people who can give him permission to give his credits to his mother. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.102.43.237 (talk) 10:38, 23 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I remember the same concept from a short story in (i think) Playboy in the Seventies, titled "Time Is Money", but the plot is not similar. —Tamfang (talk) 07:20, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
 * How about a 1987 film called "The Price Of Life"? It doesn't seem to be in Wikipedia but I found it on IMDB http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0366919/ MorganaFiolett (talk) 15:11, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

early video games
What was the Outer Space video game that was built into a coffee table in a darkened lounge? I feel positive that this was in the mid-to-late 60's.    It was the first game I had ever seen. Please help me find out what it is. I read the History of Video games and that does not help. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.218.24.90 (talk) 18:38, 22 May 2010 (UTC)


 * A number of early video games were available in a table cabinet, with the screen under a glass table top and the controls in a slot under the table. I played several in pubs in the late 70's and early 80's, including Space Invaders, Pac-Man, Defender and Asteroids.  If none of those help, maybe the timeline of video arcade game history will point you in the right direction.  Astronaut (talk) 18:55, 22 May 2010 (UTC)


 * This style of arcade machine was called a cocktail table. While games (such as Atari's Warlords) that featured a cocktail mode have this detailed in their infobox, there doesn't seem to be a specific category of cocktail mode games that I can point you to.  On the off chance that you're thinking of Space Wars, it seems it was only available in the normal upright form factor. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 19:01, 22 May 2010 (UTC)