Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2011 December 18

= December 18 =

de:Männersender vs de:Frauensender
I am very cross about the fact, that de:Männersender redirects to de:DMAX, even if:


 * 1) No page in de.wikipedia.org links to de:Männersender,
 * 2) the page de:Frauensender doesn't exist,
 * 3) “Frauensender” has far more hits than “Männersender” on google.de (see and ), and
 * 4) ProSiebenSat.1 will start a new men's interest channel in 2012 (see ).

Please delete the redirect from de:Männersender to de:DMAX. --84.61.131.15 (talk) 14:39, 18 December 2011 (UTC)


 * While I think I can see where this would have something to do with entertainment, there really isn't a question there to be answered. For that matter, this is probably a subject better discussed on the German Wikipedia. -- McDoob  AU  93  15:41, 18 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I suggest you follow this link, click bearbeiten (which always reminds me of "bear baiting", but never mind that) and replace the redirect (which looks like REDIRECT DMAX) with the text of a nice German article about men's channels, which you can write yourself, based perhaps on the English Men's interest channel article. Channel your rage into this useful creative opportunity, why not. Card Zero  (talk) 15:55, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

What are some homophobic movies?
Treating gay people as buffoons, contemptible, or otherwise as targets of derision. Right know I'm only aware of I Now Pronounce You Chuck and Larry. Thanks. Vranak (talk) 16:23, 18 December 2011 (UTC)


 * The Celluloid Closet is a good starting point, and it features a number of films that fit your question (though not very recent ones). ---Sluzzelin talk  16:29, 18 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Moreover, see "Queer as Tropes" which links to a whole list of stereotypes from "All Gays Love Theater" to "Where Everybody Knows Your Flame", with plenty of film examples for every stereotype. ---Sluzzelin talk  16:50, 18 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I thought Dune (film) was rather homophobic. As our article states "Dune has been called 'obscenely homophobic', while its depiction of the Baron Harkonnen, head of House Harkonnen and antagonist of Paul Atreides, as suffering from suppurating sores has been seen as an example of how references to AIDS penetrated popular culture in the 1980s."  He was also the most evil character in the movie, and morbidly obese, to boot, and I'm not aware of any good gay characters in the movie. StuRat (talk) 20:08, 18 December 2011 (UTC)


 * These were all taken directly from the book which was written before anybody ever heard of AIDS. Staecker (talk) 21:57, 18 December 2011 (UTC)


 * If the black oozing pus was in the book, then our article should be changed to indicate that. However, it's still homophobic, whether it originated before or after AIDS, and whether or not the book was homophobic, too. StuRat (talk) 05:45, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually I think you're right about the oozing, and maybe about the homophobia too. I was responding mostly to the AIDS. Staecker (talk) 13:00, 20 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Cruising (film) is quite notorious, as the article says. Boys Beware sounds rather unpleasant too. --Colapeninsula (talk) 10:05, 19 December 2011 (UTC)


 * If a movie treats straight people as targets of derision, would it be called "Heterophobic"? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:34, 19 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Sure, but let's also not trivialize the shitty way in which most societies have treated and do treat homosexual people by implying that all derision is equal. -- Jayron  32  20:55, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * No question that you're right, in general. However, as with any kind of political correctness, if someone goes looking for offensive material, they're sure to find it. Was The Boys in the Band homophobic? Was Queer Eye for the Straight Guy homophobic? I'm sure some would say "Yes", simply because some of the players' behavior happens to square with stereotypes. Ws Blazing Saddles racist and homophobic? Or was it merely funny, and spared no possible targets in the process? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:22, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Blazing Saddles was a strange inclusion in that list. It was clearly a genre parody. Racism in that film is intentionally exaggerated to poke fun at the (percieved) racism of previous serious films in the genre. There's a pretty clear difference between making racist jokes and parodying them. Just like Steven Colbert can say something racist or homophobic and everyone understands that he's making fun of people who would say such a thing, but if those same statements or jokes were made by someone not "playing a character" they'd be pretty offensive. APL (talk) 22:26, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Clear to you and me, sure. But not to those who lack a sense of humor - as with many PC practitioners. The "All Gays Love Theater" thing mentioned earlier reminded me of something Nathan Lane said when asked by some double-digit-IQ reporter, "Are you gay?" Instead of dissing the reporter directly, he said, "Well, I'm over 40, I've never been married, and my life is the theater... you do the math!" So, was Nathan's remark homophobic? Or was it merely funny? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:14, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Are you aware of people who were offended by that line, or is that example a total strawman? APL (talk) 01:00, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, I actually knew someone who took offense to the "...but we don't want the Irish" line, so anything is possible. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:01, 20 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Alright, just to be clear: I didn't mean to imply that every film featured in The Celluloid Closet or every stereotype listed in the TV Tropes link was an example of homophobia. Stereotypes needn't be negative. "All Gays Love Theater" is not that bad (though still potentially annoying). Some are even positive (and still manage to be annoying). Others are worse: "All Gays Are Promiscuous" and  "All Gays Are Pedophiles".  I thought the links might help Vranak find some more examples, but I was too lazy to pick out the right ones. ---Sluzzelin  talk  02:44, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I hope you don't seriously classify "all gays are pedophiles" as a stereotype, Sluzzelin. So vanishingly few people still believe this that it's long since passed out of stereotype territory (if it ever was truly there) and into outrageous and contemptible offence territory.   --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  02:54, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah. I sometimes overdo the understatement thingy. ---Sluzzelin  talk  02:59, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Cool. I just get very twitchy whenever "gay" and "pedophile" get mentioned in the same sentence.  They have about the same level of natural association as broccoli does with nuclear physics.  --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  05:42, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Brocolli > Fort Knox > nuclear physics. --Incognito.ergo.possum (talk) 13:02, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Go to the top of the class, Possum. I've always wondered if Mario Lanza (birth name Alfredo Arnold Cocozza) was his cousin.  --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  17:01, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The character Serge in Beverly Hills Cop was just a little over the top. HiLo48 (talk) 22:38, 19 December 2011 (UTC)