Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2012 August 4

= August 4 =

What is this tune running through my head?
Does anyone know what the tune to the right is? It's running through my head right now but I can't place it and it's driving me crazy. I'm almost positive it's from a piano concerto from some Romantic-era composer like Tchaikovsky or Rachmaninoff or maybe even Beethoven, but I just can't remember. I don't know if the little snippet I'm showing here is in the right key or has exactly the right note values, but it should be close enough to identify. Thanks! Angr (talk) 00:16, 4 August 2012 (UTC)


 * It's the theme from the 3rd movement of Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No. 2. --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  00:29, 4 August 2012 (UTC)


 * In terms of key, you were close. The movement is written in 3 flats throughout (except for the Coda, in C major), but the theme first appears in B-flat major and later in D-flat major.  The descending figure in bar 2 after the minim is written in crotchets, not quavers; likewise for bars 3-5.  But these are very minor departures, and what you provided was more than enough to go on.  --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  00:41, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Jack. I was just going by ear - and hearing the tune in my head only! Angr (talk) 00:47, 4 August 2012 (UTC)


 * No worries. Sinatra fans may recognise it as "Full Moon and Empty Arms". --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  00:53, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * But if what I've written as eighth notes are actually quarter notes, then what I've written as half notes must actually be whole notes, right? Angr (talk) 07:01, 5 August 2012 (UTC)


 * No. In bar 2, you've got a half note followed by 4 eighth notes.   The actual tune has a half note followed by 4 quarter notes.  In bar 3 you've got a half note, an eighth-note rest, and 3 eighth notes.  The actual tune has a whole note and 4 quarter notes (the first one of which is tied to the whole note), which require 2 bars to your one.  In bars 4 and 5, all your eighth notes should be quarter notes.  --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  07:32, 5 August 2012 (UTC)


 * If I had the remotest idea of how to write music digitally, I'd just show you visually. In this clip, the piano chord immediately before the orchestra comes in at 0:14 is the first beat of a 4-beat bar.  The orchestra enters at the 2nd beat of that bar.  The whole theme played by the orchestra alone takes 16 bars.  The piano returns for 30 bars before it starts on the slow diddly-diddly bit.  Does that help?  --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  07:57, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The youtube clipped is blocked for me because I'm in Germany, but from your description I understand what's going on. Thanks for your help! Angr (talk) 06:08, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Whaa? Germany blocks Youtube?  How come?  --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  09:04, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * It doesn't block everything, but see Gesellschaft für musikalische Aufführungs- und mechanische Vervielfältigungsrechte. Angr (talk) 20:48, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

warhammer army books
does anyone know if the warhammer army books include the stats of units and their point costs(how much they cost to use)? 99.43.78.36 (talk) 02:48, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Travel to the Olympic Games
OK. I know this will sound like a stupid question, but I must ask. In the "old days" (i.e., before airplanes), how did athletes from all over the globe travel to a single destination point in order for the Olympics to be held? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:09, 4 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Ship, if travel across oceans and sea was required. Train for shorter journeys. HiLo48 (talk) 04:13, 4 August 2012 (UTC)


 * So, I assume that the long(er) travel time needed to be accounted for. And I assume that this issue of accessibility (or lack thereof) by ship would have affected what cities/nations they would select to host the Games.  Are my assumptions correct?  Thanks.   Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:21, 4 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I can't think of any major cities, big enough to hold the Games, which you couldn't get to by ship and/or train back then. HiLo48 (talk) 04:30, 4 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Apparently the 1908 Games in London took place over a 6 month period, from April to October. This would affect the answer to your question, in that every participant was not expected to be in London at the same time. --TammyMoet (talk) 07:13, 4 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Most of the Games held until 1924 (inclusive) were held over months rather than weeks. The 1900, 1904, 1908, 1920 and 1924 Games were spread over 5, 5, 6, 5 and 2.5  months respectively.  Athens 1896 was the shortest on record, at only 9 days between opening and closing ceremonies, and sensible Stockholm 1912 was 16 days.  Then the world went insane, and only since Amsterdam 1928 has there been an unbroken series of Games held over about 2 weeks each.  --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  21:43, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Except 1956, when equestrian events took place five months earlier in a different continent.  Hot Stop   22:25, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Yep, but that wasn't a "spread" in the same sense as the early games. There was no competition in the intervening 5 months between the equestrian events finishing in Stockholm and the games proper opening in Melbourne.  There was no grand Opening Ceremony in Stockholm.  --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  20:19, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The 1904 Summer Olympics (in St Louis, USA) suffered from this - less than half the events featured foreign competitors. --Colapeninsula (talk) 15:54, 4 August 2012 (UTC)


 * See the Eleanor Holm article. Poor Eleanor would have probably wished they were taking a plane.  69.62.243.48 (talk) 23:24, 4 August 2012 (UTC)


 * The further back you go, the more of a burden travel would have been, and, subsequently, the more local the pool of athletes in each Olympics would have been. In 1896, few people had the resources to pay to travel around the world, especially as that meant they had to stop working for months.  (It wasn't like now, where many nations pay all the costs for their athletes, and paid for their living expenses the entire time they were in training.) StuRat (talk) 08:23, 5 August 2012 (UTC)


 * It's at this point that an Aussie has to point out that there has been Australian representation at every modern Olympics, all the way back to 1896. And almost everywhere is a long way from Australia. Yes, we're sports nuts. HiLo48 (talk) 08:33, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Great! Thanks to everyone for all of the great information! Much appreciated! Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 14:40, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Olympic runner with two prosthetic legs
Aren't there people with two prosthetic legs in the Paralympics? Then why is Oscar Pistorius getting into the Olympics and being treated differently? It is only because he's fast enough or are there other situational features of his case that make the difference? 67.163.109.173 (talk) 12:41, 4 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I believe it is because he is the first "disabled" person to run in the "able-bodied" Olympics.  Mitch Ames (talk) 13:22, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * What are the precise definitions of "disabled" and "able bodied" given that he competed in the 2008 paralympics and is now going to compete in the 2012 Olympics? But my main question was, if he is defined as "disabled" and the Paralympics is the place for "disabled" athletes, while the Olympics is for "able bodied" athletes, what makes him "able bodied" if anything besides his running times? 67.163.109.173 (talk) 13:29, 4 August 2012 (UTC)


 * According the Oscar Pistorius article, he is a double amputee. Athletics at the Summer Paralympics lists the "definitions of disabilities" (including amputees), which presumably one needs to meet to compete in the Paralympics. I don't think there is a definition of "able bodied" - anyone can compete in the "normal" Olympics, but:
 * The Olympic rules don't allow the use of artificial devices (eg prosthetics, such as Pistorius') that give a competitor an advantage.
 * Without their prosthetics, most disabled athletes simply can't compete against able-body athletes, so can't qualify for the normal Olympics.
 * In Pistorius' case, it has been decided that his prosthetics don't give him an advantage (see Oscar_Pistorius), and with them he is faster enough to qualify, so he runs in the "normal" Olympics. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:43, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd just like to point out that he appears to be planning to run in both the 2012 Olympics and the 2012 Paralympics . 129.234.53.221 (talk) 14:19, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Being in the Paralympics does not disqualify an athlete from also competing in the Olympics. The only issue is whether his prosthetics give him an unfair advantage over people using normal feet. HiLo48 (talk) 18:39, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * How exactly is "unfair advantage" determined? You can't compare individual Joe Runner's performance with his prostheses versus his performance with some natural legs thrown on. And it's messy to compare Joe Runner's performance to someone who "seems to you" like someone about as strong as him because the difference between gold medal and no medal or qualifying and not qualifying is very frequently a second or less. Averages: Is the average time for any given event from the Paralympics actually better than the corresponding able-bodied time? 67.163.109.173 (talk) 02:24, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I should add that among athletes, both able and disabled, there is still considerable debate about that last point. The wheelchair users would love to be allowed into the marathon. HiLo48 (talk) 23:42, 4 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Natalie du Toit has participated in both Olympics and Paralympics. It could be said that her disability gave her a disadvantage in the able-bodied event but she overcame it to swim in the finals of the Olympics. I wonder if it was ever considered giving her a prosthetic so she could compete on equal terms? --TammyMoet (talk) 08:16, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * In case it's useful, we actually have an article listing athletes who have competed in both games -- List of athletes who have competed in the Paralympics and Olympics -- which also mentions other disabled athletes who have won medals in the Olympics. Jwrosenzweig (talk) 05:27, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

SPM Briand.jpg car
What type of car is it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.53.229.208 (talk) 19:04, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I think you meant to point to []  Rojomoke (talk) 19:32, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * or even to File:SPM Briand.jpg. —Tamfang (talk) 05:29, 6 August 2012 (UTC)


 * It looks rather like an AMC Eagle - Cucumber Mike (talk) 20:58, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I concur. It's an AMC Eagle.  Dismas |(talk) 23:44, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Combining the Olympics
Has there ever been any serious talk of combining the regular Olympics with the Paralympics? I don't mean making it so that there's just one, for example, 100 meter dash race with a mix of able and disabled runners. Instead, there would be just one Olympics which would have a 100 meter dash with able bodied people and a second 100 meter dash with the disabled. Note: I am NOT asking for you to look into a crystal ball and forecast whether this will happen. I am asking if there are sources referring to the idea of combining them either in the past or in the future. In short, please don't hat this question. Thanks! Dismas |(talk) 23:56, 4 August 2012 (UTC)


 * It get's discussed quite seriously and quite frequently in my loungeroom when my disabled athlete son reminds us that he is boycotting the Olympics coverage because the commercial media so studiously avoids the Paralympics, at least in our country. But I guess you mean at a larger forum... HiLo48 (talk) 00:10, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, I was thinking more at the organizational level of either group. Kudos to your son though.  Dismas |(talk) 00:15, 5 August 2012 (UTC)


 * According to Olympic Games, "The 114th IOC Session, in 2002, limited the Summer Games program to a maximum of 28 sports, 301 events, and 10,500 athletes." So, to get Paralympic events in, you'd have to eliminate established ones. Good luck with that. If you're talking about expanding the Games, remember that they're already absurdly expensive to mount, and because of their increased exposure, the Paralympic events would have to have much tighter security. Clarityfiend (talk) 03:19, 5 August 2012 (UTC)


 * The expense point is irrelevant. Any city that bids for the Olympic Games also has to commit to running the Paralympics too. They may actually save money by combining them. HiLo48 (talk) 12:05, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Hah. Didn't know they were linked like that. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:05, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * And whatever the IOC decided in 2002, they could re-decide in the future, if they felt like it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 07:59, 8 August 2012 (UTC)