Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2012 July 17

= July 17 =

The Lovin' Spoonful album
My father has an album with The Lovin' Spoonful in his collection, this one. But it is not mentioned in their discography. The first track on the LP is as well as the title of the album is "You Didn't Have to Be So Nice" (a song from their second album) otherwise the cover and track list is identical to their first album Do You Believe in Magic (album). This album hence have 13 songs, 7 no side 1 and on side 2.

Does anyone know anything of this release? Is it just a rerelease? Why was it made? Why replace the album name on the cover instead of just "___ song included" sticker? Should any of this information be added to any of the articles? Any answers are appreciated. :) Moberg (talk) 10:13, 17 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Firstly, we need to know date of release of the album, whether it's vinyl or CD, and country you're in. It's common for record companies to retitle US releases for release in another part of the world. I see from their official site that there is an address for their discographer here, maybe you could contact him and see what he has to say. --TammyMoet (talk) 10:55, 17 July 2012 (UTC)


 * We do have a short article on Kama Sutra Records, of which this is evidently a release. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 84.21.143.150 (talk) 11:59, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * This is the German edition of the album, see and, which presumably added the "You Didn't Have to Be So Nice" single as an extra track.  Note that the catalogue number for the German edition (620001) is different from the number of the US edition.  The second page shows a cover image the same as yours with the different title, but the actual listing on the page shows the Do You Believe in Magic title and does not list the song "You Didn't Have to Be So Nice" in the tracklisting.  I think these must be errors by the page compiler.  --Viennese Waltz 12:40, 17 July 2012 (UTC)


 * (e/c) According to RateYourMusic, the version you have (label no. 620 001) was a Swedish version of the album, which as you say differs from the US and UK versions. In most cases, discographies here don't cover all international versions of record releases.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:41, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, so it's either Germany or Sweden. If the OP studies the small print on the back of the cover or the record label itself, it should make the country of origin clear. --Viennese Waltz 13:05, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * This eBay sale suggests it's German. --Viennese Waltz 13:10, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

'The Longest Daycare' European release dates
The Longest Daycare is a new Simpsons short currently showing as opener to Ice Age 4. I would like to add some info to the article regarding the European release dates of the film. As far as I know it is showing with all screenings of Ice Age 4. Currently the article is rather US-centric in that it only talks about the US release date, and does not mention the fact that the film was shown in Europe two weeks before that. I tried to add info on the European release date from IMDB but was reverted as apparently IMDB is not a reliable source (because its content is user-generated). My problem is that I can't find a reliable source for the European release date. My most reliable source for such things is usually boxofficemojo but the film is not listed there. European release dates for Ice Age 4 itself are listed there so maybe the only thing I can do is cite those and rely on the fact that The Longest Daycare is being shown as opener. Any assistance in finding a source for The Longest Daycare itself, though, would be appreciated. --Viennese Waltz 12:24, 17 July 2012 (UTC)


 * My take on the situation is that IMDb is unreliable for trivia, synopses and biographies. I trust the more technical aspects, such as release dates. I've used those myself for the infobox in hundreds of films. However, you went further and stated ("as far as I know" = WP:OR) that it is shown before Ice Age 4 in Europe, which IMDb doesn't say. That being said, User:Theleftorium appears to be taking a rather extreme stance, removing even the writing credits (including Matt Groening) as unsourced. Anyhoo, the closest I could find to your main question is The Daily Telegraph (Australia) reporting second hand that it is being shown down under ahead of the main feature as of July 6. Clarityfiend (talk) 21:16, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

(Indie) "Rock Band"
Hi, I know this question is more of a forum discussion but I'm trying to keep it formal-esque:

I'm making up a potential playlist for a Rock Band-style game that includes less mainstream songs for the most part, trying to fit into various sets of punk, post-punk, new wave, indie, college rock, garage rock, etc. The tentative list is on my talk page, but does anyone have any suggestions of good gems to fit in these categories? (If you can't help me direct me to someone who can, please). 75.73.226.36 (talk) 17:03, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Did you mean to sign in? I didn't think IPs had talk pages. --TammyMoet (talk) 18:39, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * See User talk:75.73.226.36. ---Sluzzelin talk  18:53, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I notice you don't have much from before about 1990 or so. Here's some stuff to fll in the gaps, from my own personal tastes in those genres.
 * 1966 - Femme Fatale from the Velvet Underground, American avante garde rock band
 * 1969 - Kick Out the Jams from the MC5, American protopunk/garage rock band
 * 1969 - I Wanna Be Your Dog from Iggy and the Stooges, American protopunk band
 * 1973 - Personality Crisis from the New York Dolls, American glam/punk band
 * 1976 - Cherry Bomb, from The Runaways, American punk band
 * 1977 - Sheena Is a Punk Rocker from The Ramones, American punk band
 * 1977 - What Do I Get from the Buzzcocks, English punk band
 * 1977 - Blank Generation from Richard Hell, American punk musician
 * 1978 - Radio Radio from Elvis Costello, English New Wave musician
 * 1979 - Too Much Too Young from The Specials, English Two-Tone ska band
 * 1979 - Alternative Ulster from Stiff Little Fingers, Northern Irish punk band
 * 1979 - Life During Wartime from the Talking Heads, American New Wave band
 * 1980 - Holiday in Cambodia from the Dead Kennedys, American hardcore band
 * 1981 - Straight Edge from Minor Threat, American straight edge punk band
 * 1982 - TV Party from Black Flag, American hardcore band
 * 1983 - Everything Falls Apart from Husker Du, American post-punk band
 * 1984 - I Will Dare from The Replacements, American post-punk/alternative rock band
 * 1984 - Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now from The Smiths, English indie rock band
 * 1986 - Bizarre Love Triangle from New Order, English New Wave/Indie/Synthpop band
 * 1987 - Just Like Heaven from The Cure, English indie band
 * 1987 - Love Removal Machine from The Cult, English alternative rock band
 * 1988 - Waiting Room from Fugazi, American post-punk/Emo/Indie rock band
 * 1988 - Punk Rock Girl from the Dead Milkmen, American nerd-punk band
 * 1989 - Knowledge from Operation Ivy, American third wave ska/hardcore band
 * 1989 - Bikini Girls with Machine Guns from The Cramps, American psychobilly band
 * 1990 - Kool Thing from Sonic Youth, American avant garde rock band
 * 1991 - Grey Cell Green from Ned's Atomic Dustbin'', English Indie rock band
 * 1992 - It's a Shame About Ray from The Lemonheads, American alternative band
 * 1993 - Someday I Suppose from the Mighty Mighty Bosstones, American third wave ska/hardcore band
 * 1993 - Fuck and Run from Liz Phair, American alternative rock musician
 * Just some ideas off the top of my head. With some more time I could probably double the list. -- Jayron  32  19:38, 17 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm confused. So far most if not all that you have on your talk page and those that are listed by Jayron are mainstream songs/bands.  They may not be getting airplay now but they have heavily in the past.  When I think indie, I think about songs like those by The Avett Brothers or Family Groove Company that may have only had airplay on college stations and similar small locally owned stations.  So, am I reading your question incorrectly?  Dismas |(talk) 19:54, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, they were all cool and stuff before they sold out. Most of the stuff above is readily availible, but I wouldn't call much of it "mainstream".  Iggy and the Stooges and The Cramps and Op Ivy and Sonic Youth have never been mainstream bands, though they had national/international followings and are historically significant and influential.  I was trying to hit the earlier stuff anyways.  He seems to have a lot of post-2000 stuff, though I agree that the Avett Brothers is a great band.  The Avett Brothers have a Rick Rubin produced major label album and regularly sell out arena-sized venues, I can hear "I and Love and You" on any mainstream alternative rock station any day of the week.  They are no less mainstream than the Lemonheads were.  None of that stuff was Top 40 fodder, except maybe a handful.  -- Jayron  32  20:03, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, the first section is on more mainstream alternative bands, like Collective Soul (I like those, even though they were the commercial knock-offs of other groups). I was also going to add older stuff, like Television and The Modern Lovers. Thx to Jayron, nonetheless. Are there any modern indie groups with awesome full-band arrangements? No offense to the Avett Bros, but they are a bit too folk-y, even though so is TMOE...also obscure songs by famous artists, like The Cars' "Panorama" would also find a place. 75.73.226.36 (talk) 22:10, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * If you want obscure stuff by more popular bands, may I recommend the Hate Your Friends album by the Lemonheads. Very different from their later work, almost unrecognizable as the same band, and quite good IMHO.  -- Jayron  32  22:28, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Also, anybody who wants to add any factual corrections or ideas can edit the page. I might want to find a better place than Wiki to put it though. Any ideas for a place where people might read it and care? 75.73.226.36 (talk) 22:38, 17 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Jayron already listed many that came to my mind, here are a few others:
 * 1991 - "Take 5" from Northside
 * 1990 - "My Rising Star" also from Northside
 * 1990 - "Ball and Chain from Social Distortion
 * 1990 - "Story of My Life" also from Social Distortion
 * 1991 - "Vapour Trail from Ride (shoegazing; maybe a bit too pop for what you're looking for)
 * 1990 - The Trash Can Sinatras first album, Cake
 * 1983 - Violent Femmes first album Violent Femmes
 * --William Thweatt TalkContribs 06:58, 18 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Depending on your definition of "indie", of course but there are some really left-field songs I remember from the 80s: "Lamb Kebabs" from the Frank Chickens for example, or Fish Heads by Barnes and Barnes. Or maybe "Birdhouse in your Soul" from They Might Be Giants. Or "Holiday in Cambodia" by the Dead Kennedys. --TammyMoet (talk) 08:45, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Actors etc. who own their own shows
I just finished reading Monty Python Speaks which is a biography of sorts of Monty Python. The text is about 99% snippets of interviews with the Pythons themselves as well as Douglas Adams and other people who were closely associated with Monty Python. In the book, Terry Gilliam is quoted as saying:
 * "The fact that we own the television shows is still one of the most extraordinary things because nobody owns their own shows. Except maybe us and Lucille Ball!  She was shrewd, she was a real sharp lady."

I haven't had a chance to check on the Lucille Ball assertion but I was wondering if there are other actors/writers who can claim the same thing about their television shows. Is this as unusual as Gilliam makes it out to be? I'd imagine it is but can't back up that thought with anything. Thanks, Dismas |(talk) 20:13, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * "Desilu was given one-hundred percent ownership of the series", and Desi Arnaz and Lucille Ball owned Desilu. They later sold the rights. Clarityfiend (talk) 21:29, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I think Jackie Gleason owned most of his shows. Our article lists the producer of The Honeymooners as "Jackie Gleason Enterprises", though the entertainment industry is a complex place, and he may or may not have owned full control over the property the way that Monty Python or Desilu did.  -- Jayron  32  22:14, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Nowadays with actors etc owning their own production companies, some do own rights to their own stuff. Letterman owns Worldwide Pants Incorporated, Eddie Izzard owns Ella Communications which releases all of his bits (named after his Mother), even minor celebs do this. Griff Rhys Jones and Mel Smith started Talkback to host their back catalogue and new projects and Charlie Brooker works almost exclusively for his own production house Zeppotron. Nanonic (talk) 22:22, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Eddie Izzard's bits are named after his mother? &lt;write your own joke&gt; —Tamfang (talk) 22:29, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I wonder if MTM Productions owned The Mary Tyler Moore Show? Clarityfiend (talk) 03:00, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Not anymore, at least, as according to the article its assets were aquired by, and folded into, 20th Century Fox Television after a series of purchases. -- Jayron  32  03:14, 18 July 2012 (UTC)