Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2012 July 19

= July 19 =

Black porn web sites
How many porn sites have all-black models like WhiteDicksinBlackChics.com? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.31.16.186 (talk) 00:29, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * You don't need Wikipedia to answer this question. Type whatever kind of pornography you want into any search engine you like (Google, Bing, etc.) and you'll get more than you can shake a stick at. -- Jayron  32  00:33, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Mario Bros (Film) - Ascent of Dino ?
I just watched the Mario Bros film the other night and noticed the picture/ poster in the background that showed the evolution of the dinosaurs. It looked similar to the Ascent of Man poster I've seen around. Can anyone get a copy of the Dino version thats in the film ? 193.93.201.50 (talk) 11:35, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Is that a no then ? 80.254.146.140 (talk) 12:15, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Age of a french actress
Hi. Several sources give conflicting evidence for the date of birth of Tsilla Chelton:
 * RTBF: born 21 june 1919, and dead at 93
 * La Libre Belgique: born in 1918, dead at 94
 * Le Monde: born in 1918, dead at 94
 * Libération: born 21 juin 1919, dead at 93
 * Première: born 21 juin 1918, dead at 94.

Le Vif admitted a mistake, and I'm thinking one of those sources erred and was copied by the others.

So I'm stuck. Any advice? Thank you, Comte0 (talk) 12:15, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Just flip a coin. If someone reverts then run away or it could end up like Talk:Sondra Locke--Canoe1967 (talk) 18:17, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * No coin flipping please. Add them both to the article with their supporting references until the question is resolved. Clarityfiend (talk) 21:44, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * This already happened :) the revert and my answer before coming here. I've seen France-Soir also admit a mistake, I think I'm going with the government record below. Comte0 (talk) 11:36, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Her Antwerp police immigration index entry says "21-6-1919." I didn't see a birth record. Zoonoses (talk) 21:16, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I would go with the government source then. The others could be a typo that some of the others copied. 21-6-1919 then.--Canoe1967 (talk) 00:15, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The reference you gave is for Tsilla Chilton. Are you sure it's her? A google search gets 30,500 results... I hate l'express :( Comte0 (talk) 11:15, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd never heard of her until yesterday, so I'm not sure. But since yesterday I've seen her surname spelled at least three ways.  Many of those google hits are certainly for the same woman.  For example, the first hit I got on "Tsilla Chilton" was a sort of death notice in L'Express.
 * Many of the descriptions of her early years contain obvious errors (Jerusalem under the thumb of the Ottoman Empire in 1919, for example). Is there any reliable information about the rest of her family?  The Antwerp immigration data suggests the "Chilton" family consisted of James Chilton married to Camille Levy, and children Rene, Tsilla, and Miriam (any maybe an uncle named Joseph).  Zoonoses (talk) 20:58, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I've seen the ottoman empire mistake for the first time on the French wikipedia... looking at the history, it replaced some text which said she was born in Paris :) I googled her father before, but didn't get anything, I don't think her family is notable. I've just added the Antwerp record to the article, thank you very much for the help! Comte0 (talk) 23:23, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

We had  the  same  problem  here  in  NZ  with the  correct  birth  year  of  Billy T. James,  as  some  said  1948,  others  1949. Also, did  not  Kim  Jong Il  have  two  birthdays,  like  he  was  either  born  in  early  1941  or  early 1942. I guess if  You  decide  on  a  date,  at  least  no  one  can  prove  You  wrong,  if  no  one  really  knows. Chris the Russian Christopher Lilly  05:56, 20 July 2012 (UTC)


 * This is a very common issue, Christopher. The numbers of people where sources disagree about their vital dates and there's been no general consensus as to which are correct, are legion.  My own list that I've been working on since well before the internet was invented currently stands at about 600 people.  I've raised queries in literally hundreds of places all over Wikipedia and elsewhere, trying to resolve issues of this nature, and I'm not alone.  Discussions about the true birth dates of people like Charlton Heston and Doris Day, to name but two of a very large group, are ongoing and it seems like there will never be agreement.  --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  22:44, 20 July 2012 (UTC)


 * For my own curiosity Jack, what is the purpose of this list you have been dilligently working on? Does it impress the opposite (or in your case, the opposite opposite) sex? Or is it perhaps as a background to some kind of combined three card monte and trivia game you host in pubs? I hear that gambling and alcohol is popular in the colonies. Danke, Egg   Centri  c  23:03, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It's a long story how it started. Suffice to say that getting these sorts of details nailed down fits naturally with my encyclopedic cast of mind, with my endless fascination with individual people and why we remember them, with my obsessive disposition, and with my love of accuracy (which I strive not to allow to become pedantry).  I don't actually have a single list as such, but I have my own record-keeping systems and databases that enable me to quickly come up with the 600-odd figure (actually 567), which is a small sub-set of the details I've compiled on close to 20,000 people (actually 19,933) .  No, it has zero use in attracting a mate (my other half is as different from me as it's possible to get, in almost every way you could imagine).  It's essentially a solitary pursuit, and I'd actually resist anyone I lived with wanting to get involved in, and supposedly "improving", "my" project.  There has to be one's own space and time even within a close relationship, and I probably require more than most.  My sorry record of abject failures in relationships tells the story (actually, I'm on exceptionally good terms with all of my truly vast number of ex-lovers, and that's all one can reasonably ask of life.  Don Jack, that's me alright.)  No, I don't frequent pubs; I hardly drink at all anymore, but I enjoy it when I do.  But a head for otherwise completely useless details does come in handy when I do get involved in trivia/quiz games etc.  And, of course, Wikipedia would be so much the poorer without people of my ilk, so it turns out it's not so useless after all.  When I was a young kid and people asked me what I was going to be when I grew up, I never imagined that the answer would turn out to be "lexicographer". I thank the honourable member for his question without notice.  --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  03:01, 21 July 2012 (UTC)


 * See the talk page of Sondra Locke as I mentioned above. AllRovi sites are some that I have found errors in that don't match other articles. I emailed them twice with no response. The other source is a book. Two reviews I read of the author's books state that he does get his dates and other things wrong often. Both of these sources have Ms. Locke graduating from high school at age 15.--Canoe1967 (talk) 23:14, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Chris Miller's Animal House articles
Are the original National Lampoon articles by Chris Miller that served as the inspiration for the movie Animal House still available to read anywhere? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.78.58.9 (talk) 19:22, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * You could try the National Lampoon website they do have some online. I think they sell back-issues as well. You could email them and suggest a special issue containing them. If they like the idea they may send you a free one. Other choices are see if some sites may have them scanned/digitized, used comic/books stores may rent them to read, Ebay, etc.--Canoe1967 (talk) 19:36, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Amazon.com has a DVD-ROM of scans of all 246 original issues for about $45 USD. Some of the reviews are critical of the quality of the scans and the fact that it's not indexed very well.Chief41074 (talk) 20:41, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * http://www.amazon.com/GIT-Corp-90012-National-Lampoon/dp/B000VPNSJY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1342742577&sr=8-1&keywords=national+lampoon+magazine Yes it does look like low quality, but for that price you could read it and then sell it. There are 3 used ones a little cheaper. Git Corporation made them. I wonder if there is a copyright issue.--Canoe1967 (talk) 00:10, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Olympic professionalism
Are there any events being contested at the 2012 Olympics where some of the leading contenders will be amateurs, or semi-professionals? Warofdreams talk 20:52, 19 July 2012 (UTC)


 * IN many of the minor sports such as archery, hockey, canoeing and sailing, most competitors would not be full professionals. HiLo48 (talk) 21:04, 19 July 2012 (UTC)


 * In boxing all the male competitors will be amateurs. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 21:24, 19 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I doubt that either the yachters or the equestrian riders make money that equals the cost of competition.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:27, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Jan Ebeling is a riding tutor, doesn't that make him a professional? 69.62.243.48 (talk) 01:55, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It makes him a professional tutor. Dismas |(talk) 02:30, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
 * And someone who earns his income by working at a job that he is competing in. 69.62.243.48 (talk) 23:37, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Olympic Games. --Viennese Waltz 04:05, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

To think Jim  Thorpe  lost  his  medal  100  years  ago,  and  yet  now  these  athletes can  make  millions. It seems  a  shame  that  some dedicated  sports  people  have  to  work  so  hard  to  get  anywhere  while  others  have  it  easier - at  least  financially. Trouble is,  who  has  cash  these  days  to  donate  to  their  teams,  when  if  we  are  not  giving  to  one  cause,  it's  another. Mark Todd from  NZ  who  won  Gold  in  LA  and  Seoul  for  the  three  day  event  did  do  Bell Tea  ads  here  in  New  Zealand,  but  what  ever  else  he  makes  who  knows. It seems  some  sports  are  more  viable  for  sponsorhip  and  professionalism  than  some  others. I have  no  problem  with  athletes  being  professional,  but  some  times  it  would  be  good  that  they  do  their  sport  just  for  the  joy  of  it,  but  certainly  with  no  cost  to  them  except  the  effort  they  put  in  to  training. Chris the Russian Christopher Lilly  06:03, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Avery Brundage was a crank. 69.62.243.48 (talk) 23:38, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * That's one of my articles. Far more complicated than that.  Read it.--Wehwalt (talk) 00:05, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Your articles, Wehwalt? -- ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  02:17, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * An article I've worked on, I should say.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:40, 22 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I stand by my statement. 69.62.243.48 (talk) 23:56, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Most European countries have state funding for "elite" athletes, which would include most of those with a reasonable chance of winning an Olympic medal. So, even if you don't gain much from sponsorship or prize-money, you have a living wage to devote yourself fulltime to training for a few years, without needing to hold down a dayjob. This applies to "amateur" boxers as much as other sports. jnestorius(talk) 20:33, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the responses. I can see that there are two grey areas: athletes who receive some sort of state funding, and those who earn money from activities relating to their sport, such as training, or advertising products. I was thinking particularly of athletes who hold down a job unconnected with their sport, but I suppose that many of the traditional amateurs had sufficient private wealth that they didn't need to do that. Warofdreams talk 15:07, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm surprised Fifelfoo hasn't chirped in here, because the amateurism/professionalism divide in sport has its roots in a rather unpleasant type of classism. The idea is that sport is for rich, wealthy people who can fund themselves; that was what made them amateurs.  Sports like tennis and golf espoused this ideal for a long time; lower class people were professionals because they needed to get paid to make a living.  Accepting money for performing a hobby was seen as a sure sign that the participants were of a "base" class, while more "gentile" people could play their sports for the "pure love of it", meaning they didn't need it to support themselves, cuz they were loaded anyways.  Even sports like Rugby had controversies surrounding amateurism and professionalism, this is basically what caused the schism between Rugby Union and Rugby League; Rugby League was founded by Northern England players from industrial, working class backgrounds who had the gall to expect that they get paid for entertaining people.  The southern Rugby Union was mostly populated by upper class players who picked up the game at places like Eton College and other "public" schools.  That mentality permeated sports at all levels across the western world, the Olympics were part of that.  -- Jayron  32  23:02, 24 July 2012 (UTC)