Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2012 July 30

= July 30 =

Olympic movie
There was this movie set during the first modern Olympic at Athens about a Greek man who won the marathon or something after a string of American victories. What was it called?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 09:12, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Spyridon Louis was the athlete and It Happened in Athens may be the film. --Colapeninsula (talk) 09:17, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Colapeninsula is probably right, but I thought I'd mention that I grew up on a TV movie about the 1896 games, which as I recall focused largely on the American team, but then closed with the inspirational story of Spyridon. Given your mention of "a string of American victories", I thought you might be thinking of it.  I couldn't remember the title for sure, but it looks as though it may have been "The First Olympics: Athens 1896" -- http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086713/ Jwrosenzweig (talk) 05:40, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

IGI 2 (computer game)
How can I go on land in the 14th level? 223.179.129.55 (talk) 13:06, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Films with candid camera
Aparta from Borat and Brüno What other films have candid camera-like practical jokes in them?--88.2.8.193 (talk) 13:51, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I would guess all the Jackass movies (especially the "old man" and "old woman" sequences, and the team members' unsuspecting parents).--Shantavira|feed me 16:37, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 * There are a few Spanish movies that qualify, To er mundo é güeno (1982) that is just a compilation of jokes of that style, FBI: Frikis Buscan Incordiar, the same, only the victims are pseudo-famous people and El gran marciano (2000) where the contestants of the Spanish version of Big Brother were led to believe that they were having an encounter with an alien being.--85.55.207.150 (talk) 18:35, 30 July 2012 (UTC)


 * You can do an Amazon keyword search which has a lot of irrelevant results but Allen Funt's What Do You Say to a Naked Lady? certainly qualifies (Funt basically invented candid camera stunts), and it had a lesser-known follow-up Money Talks. There's also a South African hidden-camera film series, Funny People (1976) and Funny People II (1983). There's a British Jackass rip-off, Dirty Sanchez: The Movie, that might fit as well. --Colapeninsula (talk) 14:33, 31 July 2012 (UTC)


 * In the mockumentary Man Bites Dog, filmmakers follow serial killer Ben (Benoît Poelvoorde). As I recall, for an interview scene with Poelvoorde's parents, they talk about what a great son he is, yet they were never informed about the type of character he was portraying. So the effect is they seem to approve of his activities. Pepso2 (talk) 00:05, 1 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Are those enough to make a Category:Films involving candid camera? Altough most of these films does not have an article. Apparently Wikipedia needs more coverage of shity non-English speaking movies :-P--195.76.28.230 (talk) 08:55, 2 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Does The Truman Show count? Mitch Ames (talk) 08:52, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Olympic anomalies
In the Olympic opening ceremony, the team from Chinese Taipei enters between Syria and Tajikistan, not in the C section, as its name would suggest. Why is this the case? The formulation "Chinese Taipei" is not the name of any country but was confected for use "in some international organizations and ... sporting events ...". It does not exist outside those contexts. Nobody ever refers to the nation of Taiwan or its representatives as just "Taipei", that name being reserved for the capital city. It's hard to know whether the Olympic ordering is based on Taipei or Taiwan, but either way, it seems to fly in the face of the name itself, which is neither Taipei nor Taiwan, but "Chinese Taipei".

Also, the names on the banners were in almost all cases the short versions of the country names, e.g. Australia, not "Commonwealth of Australia"; or Germany, not "Federal Republic of Germany". But Iran was "Islamic Republic of Iran". Firstly, why did they get their full official name but no other country did? Secondly, Iran entered the stadium before Iraq, hence the ordering was based on Iran, and not on the full name on the banner (because "Islamic" comes after "Iraq" in my idea of an alphabetically sorted list). Why have the full name showing if it’s going to be ignored in the ordering?

What’s the deal with these strange anomalies? -- ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  21:07, 30 July 2012 (UTC)


 * The name "Chinese Taipei" is a compromise that allows the Taiwanese a name with "China" in it but does not imply that they control the territory of China, which satisfies the PRC. Both nations missed a number of Olympics over the dispute, this allows them both to compete without protests.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:06, 30 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I think that the thrust of Jack's question is: "how did it come to arrive in that (supposedly, alphabetical) order in the Opening Ceremony?" ... as opposed to "why is that the name given it?" ... Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 23:10, 30 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I suspect it is to separate them from the Chinese athletes and any question of political demonstrations.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:25, 30 July 2012 (UTC)


 * It's about politics and compromise and such. That's how North Korea ended up in the "C" group, for example. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:26, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 * ?? North Korea and Democratic People's Republic of Korea don't have any words that start in C. --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  23:47, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The NBC commentators had an explanation, but I didn't write it down. In any case, this list of all the 3-letter codes might explain some of the ordering (though not North Korea - I might take it to mean "Commie Korea", but that wasn't what they said on TV). ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:01, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Check out what North Korea calls itself. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:10, 31 July 2012 (UTC)


 * The ordering is based on the names as they exist in the language of the host nation, not their own languages. Germany comes under G for Germany, not D for Deutschland.  If the Games were in Vienna, it would be the other way around.  --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  00:38, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
 * They made an exception for Côte d'Ivoire, which is not English, it's merely a political bone tossed to that team. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:42, 31 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Regarding Chinese Taipei, there's some info on this at Chinese Taipei and 2012 Summer Olympics. Basically, as far as I understand it, it's a compromise settled on by the IOC.  And I thought that they were supposed to be in alphabetical order by IOC identifier, which for Chinese Taipei is TPE, but that would put them after Tajikistan per List of IOC country codes.  Dismas |(talk) 23:33, 30 July 2012 (UTC)


 * No, the sorting field is clearly either "Taipei" (or "Taiwan"), so it's not the 3-letter code they're using in this case. But sorting "Chinese Taipei" under T for Taipei makes as much sense as sorting "United States of America" under S for States.  --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  23:47, 30 July 2012 (UTC)


 * If the 3-letter code was the sorting key, there’d be a lot of re-ordering required. Spain is ESP, Virgin Islands is ISV, South Africa is RSA, Saudi Arabia is KSA ...  --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  01:09, 31 July 2012 (UTC)


 * As for the Iran/Iraq question, those are in order by IOC country code. See my previous links.  Dismas |(talk) 23:39, 30 July 2012 (UTC)


 * And we can already see that that schema has been corrupted. --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  23:47, 30 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Are you sure North Korea was not at the end of the C group (after Cyprus), and therefore starting off the Ds?  → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 00:11, 31 July 2012 (UTC)


 * That was Baseball Bugs' claim, not mine, but early D is a much more likely explanation than late C. But this exposes the inconsistency:  Democratic Republic of Korea gets sorted under D for Democratic, but Islamic Republic of Iran (the name on the physical banner they used) get sorted under Iran, not Islamic.  It seems to be a hodge-podge of compromises, and the widespread claim, that the countries (apart from Greece and the host nation) are sorted alphabetically by their common name in the official language of the host nation, is itself compromised.  --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  00:38, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps this will be of help. I've been to two Opening Ceremonies, Salt Lake and Turin, and I assure you, about the M's, the novelty wears off with a vengeance.  Especially as by then you have been sitting outside for three hours on a cold February night and you just activated your last handwarmer.--Wehwalt (talk) 00:46, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Wehwalt. That gives the precise order in which they entered, but it doesn't help to explain why certain parts of the order are as they are.  --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  01:09, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It looks like it was indeed at the start of the D's. I think "Congo" coming after it was what threw me. That, and the fact that after commercial breaks, NBC would whiz through what had theoretically been "missed" during the commercial - despite the fact they could have shown the entire thing if they had wanted to - except then it would have been obvious to the public (like it wasn't well known already) that it wasn't live. It might have been after one of those "commercial breaks" that they zipped through Cyprus and North Korea and Congo and so on. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:29, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Meanwhile, South Korea wasn't "South Korea", it was simply "Korea". Go figure. As regards "Chinese Taipei", their 3-letter code is "TPE", so they go in with the T's - and more importantly for political reasons, nowhere near the C's. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:32, 31 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I think I demonstrated above that the 3-letter codes have nothing to do with the order of the teams, otherwise Spain would be in the E's and Saudi Arabia in the K's, etc. --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  01:35, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't say they have nothing to do with it, but as I said before, politics figures into it. Why not "Islamic Republic of Iran" (IRI)? I'll tell you why: Because then they would have marched in directly adjacent to "Israel". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:37, 31 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I didn't notice these particular anomolies. "Chinese Taipei" came at the start of the T's corresponding to "Taipei" or "Taiwan" depending on your political preference and an obvious attempt to keep most parties at least partially happy.  Democratic People's Republic of Korea (who are particularly picky about percieved insults, like the getting name of their country or their flag wrong) came at the start of the D's, just before the Democratic Republic of the Congo.  See 2012 Summer Olympics Parade of Nations for the full list in order.
 * I wouldn't mind guessing that LOCOG asked each country's Olympic Committee for their preferred name and maybe a few acceptable alternatives bearing in mind various political rivalries and who they would be next to in the parade. For example: I doubt "Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" was their first choice but had to compromise to avoid pissing off the Greeks, or maybe it was to do with IOC policy. Astronaut (talk) 17:09, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The requirement that the countries come in alphabetically is in the Olympic Charter. But the Charter doesn't say how you determine it, except for the host language requirement.  I suppose that the IOC can tweak things a bit.  After all, it's not like they are going to get sued.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:27, 31 July 2012 (UTC)


 * One can alphabetically sort any list one likes, but when there's more than one word in some of the items, the sorting key is, well, the key to understanding exactly why item A appears before Item B etc. I think it's clear now that the oft-repeated claim that the countries other than Greece and the host nation enter alphabetically tells a part of the story, but not the whole story.  My life will now be devoted to getting a fix on the rest of the story.  Thanks all for your input.  --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  03:34, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
 * They do parade alphabetically by the particular name they've chosen (or been assigned) for the event. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:02, 3 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I direct you to my opening question, which points out that "Chinese Taipei" marches in the T section, not the C section. That's not using "the particular name they've chosen".  It's using a certain word in the name, and not the first word.  --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  00:45, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Their 3-letter code is TPE. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:05, 3 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I have a distinct feeling of déja vu here. Again we have you see-sawing to the 3-letter code when your earlier assertion proves to be untrue.  What actually is your claim, Bugs?  And can you please cite whatever it is?  --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  08:17, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Buñuel's Best?
What might be considered Luis Buñuel's five or so best films, excluding but compared to Viridiana, Belle de Jour (film), and El angel exterminador, which I have seen? I have looked at the article, but would prefer more to go on than just which of his films got various awards. Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 22:27, 30 July 2012 (UTC)


 * You want an idea of his 4th to 8th best films that does not take into account any awards they may have won? I very much doubt there's going to be a generally agreed order of such things.  If not, which critics are to be preferred over which others?  Can a reference desk really help with such subjective, opinion-based rankings?  --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  23:53, 30 July 2012 (UTC)


 * If you reread me, I said I would like more to go on than just the list of awards, not that they be discounted. (Neither did I say "4th through 8th", I said I wanted maybe no more than five suggestions from any person or source, and that I didn't need to be told about the three I have already seen. Or am I mistaking a serious suggestion that those three are the best for sarcasm in the first response to a good faith question?)
 * I can read the articles myself, but it looks like there are over 20 linked works of his, and maybe a dozen more relevant articles. So I am looking for an educated suggestion as to which movies are considered his best from someone who has any familiarity with Bunuel at all.  Any suggestions would presumably lead me to the relevant article.  Outside sources would be appreciated.
 * Necessarily, any help is going to be based on the editor's knowledge and opinions. Maybe someone can only say they have seen one movie, and simply thought it was good.  Even that will help me prioritize my search.  That doesn't make what anyone says merely subjective, unless they don't care to explain their reasons, and even then I'd assume good faith and probably start with those articles.  So, any help? μηδείς (talk) 00:23, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
 * If you believe in the wisdom of crowds, IMDb's ranking lists: 1) Los Olvidados, 4) Le charme discret de la bourgeoisie, 5) Ensayo de un crimen, 6) Nazarín, 7) Simón del desierto. Of the ones you mentioned, Viridiana and El angel exterminador are 2nd and 3d respectively, and Belle du jour is 12th. Of the ones I have seen, my three favourite are among the top five, Un Chien Andalou is 8th, but a bit difficult to rate in comparison, though of course a must-see for anyone interested in the history of cinema. Speaking of Dalí, L'Age d'Or is often listed as one of Buñuel's outstanding film but only ranks 15th here. Cet obscur objet du désir, frequently mentioned in film columns and essays, is on 10th place, and, finally, Aventuras de Robinson Crusoe (by far my least favourite) is ranked 23d. But I can't claim to be a Buñuelist. ---Sluzzelin talk  02:54, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Now that was exactly the helpful kind of post I was hoping for. (I highly doubt I will like Un Chien Andalou, having read of it in conjunction with Dali.) I will check out the IMDb ranking.  I didn't know one could do that, so you have been most helpful. μηδείς (talk) 04:00, 31 July 2012 (UTC)