Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2012 November 3

= November 3 =

Disney on Ice
Disney on Ice is running ads for a new show called "100 Years of Magic". What happened, Disney-related, in 1912? 69.62.243.48 (talk) 01:26, 3 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Walt Disney was 11 at the time, but according to our article on him: "...moving to Kansas City in 1911 where Walt and his younger sister Ruth attended the Benton Grammar School. At school he met Walter Pfeiffer who came from a family of theatre aficionados, and introduced Walt to the world of vaudeville and motion pictures. Before long Walt was spending more time at the Pfeiffers' than at home. As well as attending Saturday courses at the Kansas City Art Institute, Walt often took Ruth to Electric Park, 15 blocks from their home, which Disney would later acknowledge as a major influence of his design of Disneyland." So, this seems to be when Walt was 1st "inspired". StuRat (talk) 01:30, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * If that's the date they mean, then they're celebrating their second centennial in the last decade. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:08, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Google the subject and you'll discover they've been running a "100 Years of Magic" ice show for several years now. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:13, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * That's where the "magic" of advertising comes in. Clarityfiend (talk) 22:05, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Yep. Like in 1969, when baseball celebrated its second centennial in 30 years. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:11, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Channel I Lux Superstar contestants
Is there a website where it shows the past winners including this year's winner and as well as the contestants and runner-ups of Channel I Lux Superstar since it started? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.92.151.24 (talk) 02:44, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Spider-Man (theme song)
Dear Wikipedia, I hope this is the right place to give you some possible germane info re: Spider-Man (theme song)

I don't want to write nor edit this article, but perhaps someone more adept than I might want to check this out?

I was just listening to "Charles Mingus - Mingus Ah Um [full album]" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGJM6l_gf7c If one goes to "3.Boogie Stop Shuffle 13:05", it sounds very much like the main riff in the Spiderman theme. I have a tin ear, and I may be wrong, but I humbly suggest that someone might check it out, and correct the Wikipedia page if necessary.

You do a GREAT job, and this is my submission to make Wikipedia even better! 58.8.245.188 (talk) 03:20, 3 November 2012 (UTC)Marty S
 * Thanks for your idea for improving the article. If there is a connection between the two pieces of music, then Wikipedia requires a reliable source stating such. We're not allowed to listen and then draw our own conclusions. You may get better luck with future suggestions on the Mingus Ah Um talk page. Regards, Orange Suede Sofa  (talk) 04:41, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * You're right. There's an undeniable similarity there. But adding such information to Spider-Man (theme song) would be considered original research, which isn't allowed. If you can find a reliable source that states that the writers adapted the Mingus melody, I or any number of other editors would be happy to incorporate it into the article for you. Without such sources, it could just be a coincidence, so we can't add it. Thanks for noticing it, and for your kind words for the project. --BDD (talk) 04:45, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

"No, Luke - I am your father"
When exactly did George Lucas come up with the idea that Darth Vader was Luke Skywalker's father? Was it before he made Episode IV, or when he was developing the story for a sequel? Hemoroid Agastordoff (talk) 08:39, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * See Darth Vader, particularly this section: "After the success of Star Wars, Lucas hired science fiction author Leigh Brackett to write Star Wars II (later retitled Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back) with him. They held story conferences and, by late November 1977, Lucas had produced a handwritten treatment called The Empire Strikes Back. The treatment is very similar to the final film, except that Darth Vader does not reveal he is Luke's father. In the first draft that Brackett would write from this, Luke's father appears as a ghost to instruct Luke.[8] Lucas was disappointed with the script, but Brackett died of cancer before he could discuss it with her.[9] With no writer available, Lucas had to write the next draft himself. In this draft, he made use of a new plot twist: Darth Vader claiming to be Luke's father. According to Lucas, he found this draft enjoyable to write, as opposed to the year-long struggles writing the first film. [10]" - Cucumber Mike (talk) 08:46, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Alan Dean Foster actually wrote the original novelization of Star Wars as well as its original sequel (and very the entertaining) Splinter of the Mind's Eye before The Empire Strikes Back which changed the backstory and made Splinter non-canonical. I just reread Splinter this summer after thirty-some years. It is pulp-fiction, but it stands up quite well. μηδείς (talk) 17:08, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * It should be noted that 'Vader' (pronounced differently) means 'father' in Dutch - so, 'dark father'. Coincidence? Perhaps. --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 17:34, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks - I always thought the plot twist was rather odd, given that Obi Wan had told Luke in Episode IV that Vader had betrayed and murdered Luke's father. Hemoroid Agastordoff (talk) 17:39, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * There are a number of plot oddities between the first and second films. The one you mention stood out at the time as not making sense, and I think it was in the third film where Luke himself questioned Obi-Wan's ghost, who explained that he was speaking metaphorically. That's technically known as a "cop-out". Another issue is that in the first one, Obi-Wan told Vader, "If you strike me down, I will only become more powerful." However, in the second one, he appears to Luke and tells him he must go to the planet where Yoda lives, because he himself can't help. And back to the Vader-is-Luke's-father thing, when Luke is in the fleet attacking the Death Star, Vader says to himself, "The Force is strong in this one." Apparently not strong enough for Vader to detect who it was. That's a bit fuzzier. But it suggests that Lucas didn't have that idea in mind during the filming of the original. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:23, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Are you sure that Vader didn't say "The Force is strong in this motherf***er"? :-D 24.23.196.85 (talk) 02:52, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't remember it that way, but it was 35 years ago. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:09, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I fail to see the problem in any of this. Luke was raised purposefully with his family history hidden to "protect" him.  What would the point have been of Kenobi saying offhandedly, oh, yeah, your father is alive and the devil incarnate?  This is only problematic if you start with the bizarre notion that instead of real life ambiguities and the desire to tell a story the first film should have set out an entire straightjacketed backstory first, perhaps getting to the action in the sequel.  That's not how drama works, that's borderline obsessive fan behavior. If this bothers you, don't read Splinter.  The treatment of Han Solo and Luke's relationship with Leia will keep you up at night. μηδείς (talk) 19:39, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * It bothered me a little bit in 1980. It doesn't now. It's just one of those continuity glitches, like how come Dorothy's braids keep going longer and shorter from scene to scene. Or how come Darth Vader sounds like he works for CNN. The answer is that it's a movie, with an artificial universe. Hence, inconsistencies. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:08, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
 * He didn't do "This is CNN" until 1990 - 13 years after Star Wars, though. It's CNN that sounds like an evil empire, perhaps. Rmhermen (talk) 20:00, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah HAH!
 * I actually only saw the movie once, and a lot of it stuck with me (including the continuity glitches with the second one), which shows how profound it was. One thing I recall is that for the first couple of films, JEJ "neither confirmed nor denied" that he was the voice of Darth Vader. I think he was finally given screen credit in the third film ("Episode VI"). ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:03, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, I don't think that it's true that Dave Prowse really said in a TV interview (in his thick 'rustic' accent) that he thought that his voice would have been better for Vader and couldn't understand why Lucas had it overdubbed without telling him. --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 22:16, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
 * If you've ever seen the original clip of Vader's first appearance, with Prowse's voice on the track, it's pretty clear why they needed a different voice. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:34, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
 * GGot a link for that, Bugs? μηδείς (talk) 01:40, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
 * WWell, not really, since it was a TV show a decade or so ago. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 04:41, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Found one, on youtube. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:21, 5 November 2012 (UTC)