Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2012 September 25

= September 25 =

Casey on the Mound board game
Was there ever a Casey on the Mound board game? I read the page for Casey at the Bat and found no mention of a Casey on the Mound board game. "Casey at the Bat" originated in the 1880's and the Casey on the Mound game is very old as well. I haven't been able to find any information that would show that this game is based on the Casey at the Bat poem but am very interested to find out. Any information would be greatly appreciated! Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.8.212.49 (talk) 00:46, 25 September 2012 (UTC)


 * These auctioneers state it was "Manufactured by Kamm Games Inc. of Danielson, Connecticut". This site provides better pictures and a date for the cover of 1947. This place gives the best description yet, including how the game was played. As it was endorsed by Dodgers' pitcher Hugh Casey, it appears that Mighty Casey has struck out once again. The Boy's Life magazine ad shows a picture of the game components in use. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:06, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

PAT conversion
I just finished watching the Seahawks/Packers game. The horrible officiating that ended the game notwithstanding, I'm confused about the PAT kick that took place. I realize the attempt had to be made by rule, but it seems very foolish for Seattle to actuallly have kicked the extra point. In a one-point game, that ball could have been blocked or otherwise gotten loose and Green Bay could have returned it for 2 points and the win. It seemed to me that Seattle should have simply snapped the ball and taken a knee. Am I correct that a PAT attempt is a live ball that can be returned? Also, is it permissible to kneel on the ball in a PAT situation, or must an actual attempt be made? Joefromrandb (talk) 04:04, 25 September 2012 (UTC)


 * According to the NFL rules digest, "The defensive team never can score on a try." Clarityfiend (talk) 04:16, 25 September 2012 (UTC)


 * What he said. On PATs, regardless of whether it is a kick or a two-point attempt, the play is declared dead as soon as a defensive player comes into posession of the ball.  The defense cannot score under any circumstances.  This is different than NCAA and NFHS rules, whereby the defense can score on the attempt.  As NFL season-ending tie-breaker rules for playoff spots take total points into account, it is in a team's best interest to attempt the PAT, and (excepting freak injury on the play) there is no possible negative from the attempt.  -- Jayron  32  04:22, 25 September 2012 (UTC)


 * For the rest of the world, what is a PAT in this context? ... Ah! PAT (American football). Astronaut (talk) 17:29, 25 September 2012 (UTC)


 * See point after touchdown. -- Jayron  32  18:07, 25 September 2012 (UTC)


 * In addition, one of the tiebreakers is point differential against common opponents. That one point could make a difference as to who gets into the playoffs.  69.62.243.48 (talk) 22:40, 25 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Jayron is our resident expert on all things sports. I wonder if he knows, or has an informed opinion, on what would have happened if the Packers had refused to take the field for that extra-point try. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:04, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * If the Packers refused to take the field, the play would have gone off without them, as the Seahawks would have had the ball. They would have walked into the endzone for the free two points, I suspect.  Plus there would have been hefty fines from the league for the team for violating the "integrity of the game".  I'll take a perusal through the league rules for what happens if a team "fails to report" for a game.  -- Jayron  32  01:52, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm looking for any official rules on teams forfeiting all of part of a game. Near as I can tell, there has only ever been a single NFL game officially forfeited, see here from the PFRA, back in 1921.  The league worked VERY differently back then than it does now.  I can't find anything in the official NFL rule book, though not for want of trying.  A few unreliable sites indicate that the NFL gives an "official" score of 2-0 for any forfeited game, but it has never happened (except the one 1921 example) and I can't find anything in the rules about what happens if a team forfeits at any point in the game; the situation you seem to be asking is if a team quits in the middle of a game, or before it is officially over.  I can't find any provision in the rules that covers that at all.  Still looking.  -- Jayron  32  02:03, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * this version of the NFL rules has the bit about the 2-0 final score if a team forfeits entirely, but that's missing from the same section of the "official rulebook" here: . Still looking, the rulebook covers onfield action; it may be something covered in the Constitution and Bylaws of the league.  Will see if I can find a copy of that.  -- Jayron  32  02:08, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Here's the official rules from the Constitution and Bylaws of the league, Article IX, subsection 9.1 (E) on page 43: "No player, coach [etc]... may remove his team or order his team removed from the field of play during a game. Should any [team] violate [this rule] such club shall...face forfeiture of any victory or tie achieved in such game and in addition shall incure sole liability for any financial losses suffered by the opposing team and any other member clubs so affected."  The commisioner is also given wide latitude, it appears, to disipline such clubs.  So, had the Packers refused to report for that last PAT, they would have been subject to summary judgement by the Commisioner's office for violating that Bylaw, which pretty much confirms what I said above: heavy fines and other punishments.  In other places in the rulebook, the Commisioner has the power to declare any uncompleted game "final" at the point where the game was left (for example, if severe weather or other emergency prevented its completion), so combining that with this means that if a team refuses to finish a game, the Commisioner has the power to declare the result final when that team quit, the power to award the win to the other team if the quitting team was ahead or tied at that point, and the power to level summary punishment against the quitting team.  -- Jayron  32  02:22, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, so even though the clock was at 0, the game was not completed yet, so they would have suffered a meaningless forfeiture, but also possibly some very meaningful punishments. So an impromptu, one-team "strike" would not likely work. But what if the players' union threatened a general strike? I wonder what the NFL would do then. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:20, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * You may say that in jest, but read this latest statement from NFLPA chief DeMaurice Smith: . It sounds like the players union is leaving open the possibility (I'm not sure how realistic) of exactly that.  -- Jayron  32  03:25, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Coldplay song
God Put A Smile Upon Your Face is based on a musical phrase that I remember from my childhood. I'm pretty sure it was a signature tune to a radio show in the UK. Musically it was played on a trumpet, and the style was that of Herb Alpert. In fact I reckon it's so similar that I'm amazed no lawsuits have been brought! Can anyone identify the trumpet tune please? --TammyMoet (talk) 09:18, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Rolling Stone magazine says that the riff is based on Roxy Music's Out of the Blue. This would seem to fail on all the other counts - not a radio theme, not a trumpet riff and not Herb-Alpert-esque. But, just to check, that's not it, is it? - Cucumber Mike (talk) 09:28, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * And I see that manual-of-style fanatics de-capitalized the "Upon". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:34, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * No Mike I'm pretty sure it's not, it would be a few years before the Roxy Music tune. Thanks for that.--TammyMoet (talk) 15:38, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Is it possible that you may be mis-remembering the recent Mark Ronson version? Blakk   and ekka 20:27, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * No my memory is from listening to the theme tune in the bedroom of a house I moved from in 1968, so that rules out anything more recent! --TammyMoet (talk) 09:30, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmm, ok. Well, do any of these help? (I'm assuming we're talking BBC radio, probably the Light Programme). I've had a listen to them, and nothing jumped out as exactly like the Coldplay track, but how about Pick of the Pops? It's around the right era, and fairly Herb-Alpert-ish, and I can see how it sounds a bit like what we're looking for. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 10:17, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Or maybe it's Radio One (started 1967). Here's what seems like a pretty comprehensive list of themes from the era. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 10:33, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * What an amazing site! I've spent a good hour walking down Memory Lane, and can't find the actual track. However, it seems that the band who did the Charlie Chester theme (Music to Drive By, Oscar Brandenburg Orchestra) did a fair amount of other stuff too, which is available online. The sound I remember is that of the Charlie Chester theme tune, but not the tune itself. I didn't specify BBC earlier because we used to listen to a lot of pirate radio stations as well as the "official" ones like BBC and AFN, and I can't swear to it being BBC. When I get chance I shall listen my way through the recordings I've found. Thank you! --TammyMoet (talk) 15:22, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Cartoon with an episode involving eating luncheon meat with milk.
Once upon a time, many years ago, I saw a cartoon on Cartoon Network, where in that episode, the main character was idolizing an Indiana Jones-like character on TV who ate luncheon meat with milk, meaning he treated luncheon meat like cereal. I can't remember what series it was, although I'm sure it was shown on Cartoon Network. I'm not even sure if it's Time Squad or Dexter's Laboratory, but I doubt it is either of the two. Can someone find it? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 11:04, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Was it (daytime) Cartoon Network or (nighttime) Adult Swim? -- Jayron  32  12:45, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Intentional or not, it sounds like a gross violation of strict kosher laws. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:36, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Gross indeed. -- Jayron  32  21:40, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Which would be relevant only if the cartoon had some Jewish context. Gentiles are not bound by kosher.  --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  22:18, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Never having seen it, I don't know if it has any Jewish context or not. So it might be some sort of comment on kosher, and it might not. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:02, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The q made no mention of the kosher perspective on the mixing of meat with milk. Apart from The Simpsons, cartoons are hardly known for their commentary on religious practices.  The default assumption would be the absence of any such content.  If you're going to bring in kosher without any basis, you may as well comment on the cartoon's very existence offending the Taliban's prohibition on any form of fun.  --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  00:44, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, have you in fact seen the cartoon in question? I'm not trying to make a big thing out of this by any means. I just want to know if they were making any kind of subtle Jewish joke, or if it was totally coincidental? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:15, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply. Anyway, I'm sure it wasn't in Adult Swim. It was a regular day-time cartoon. Also, it had nothing to do with kosher laws at all. it was an episode about the main character meeting the aforementioned Indiana Jones-like character, who was his idol, and apparently he began to regret it. And yes, the main character did have luncheon meat as cereal. It was not a satire, although IIRC the main character did regret doing this. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 11:49, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Was it Phineas and Ferb? One of the main charactes, Perry the Platypus dresses in a Fedora and I suppose has some Indiana Jones-like qualities?  -- Jayron  32  19:13, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Title of this film?
In the mid 1980s I saw what appeared to be a made-for-TV movie. A young mother is driving her son (who appears to be 4-5 years old) on the highway at night. They get a flat tire, but the mother continues to drive on until the tire comes completely off the wheel. They get out and start walking to get help, but soon encounter a biker gang, who chase them back to the car. The next day their bodies are found. The rest of the film is about the woman's husband tracking down and killing all of the members of the gang. One of the gang members is forced by the husband, at gunpoint, to jump out of the car while he (the husband) is driving at freeway speed. I don't recall any notable actors or actresses in the film. Hemoroid Agastordoff (talk) 18:03, 25 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I think I've got it. This sounded a lot like an exploitation film, especially a biker film. I checked over the mid-80s movies at List of biker films, and I think you're referring to Eye of the Tiger. If not, it could be one of the movies on that list without an article. --BDD (talk) 21:05, 25 September 2012 (UTC)


 * The plot described actually sounds much like Mad Max  10draftsdeep (talk) 21:20, 25 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Agreed, featuring Mel Gibson before he lost his mind. StuRat (talk) 21:58, 25 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Sorry, those weren't the film I saw. But thanks for trying.  Hemoroid Agastordoff (talk) 18:56, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * TV Movie: Streets of Justice (1985) Ssscienccce (talk) 21:43, 26 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I think that's it - thank you!! Hemoroid Agastordoff (talk) 18:28, 28 September 2012 (UTC)