Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2013 August 27

= August 27 =

Secrets - OneRepublic (sample at start)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCub4Vi-1KI

From 0:09 is a beat from some opera / classical singer. I went on who sampled and couldn't find what I am looking for.

I remember a early 00s song (2000 - 2003) that started with that same sample from 0:00 to 0:09 but then it went a bit different but still similar! It was a female singing. and it was a popular song, and it was american. 212.30.205.162 (talk) 19:10, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

The instrumental part is similar to the beginning of the J. S. Bach Solo Cello Suite no. 1. Not identical though. Herbivore (talk) 20:48, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Do Martial Arts Really Work?
Dear all.

I think martial arts are great! My only problem is: I have never seen any actual evidence, that they work in reality. I have in fact never seen, read or even heard of any reliable information that proves their alleged efficiency. A good friend of mine, who used to practice karate for years, lost a fight against a dude who never trained anything (and who also was smaller). Most armies seem to ignore traditional martial arts completely and created their own hand-to-hand combat systems (LINE, Systema, Combat 56 and Krav Maga). My grandfather, who served in the army as a fight instructor (he teached bayonet fencing, knife fighting and hand-to-hand combat) has told me, that most martial arts are hoaxes. My question is: are most martial arts really that useless? And are there effective martial arts?--92.105.189.138 (talk) 20:05, 27 August 2013 (UTC)


 * (absolute OR with no training in anything). Martial arts as a whole are not a hoax, but other training is clearly legitimate and some people need no training at all to know how to fight and/or defend themselves. (More OR. It's not so much the practical use, but the discipline involved that people like.) --Onorem (talk) 20:10, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the response, Onorem. I used to go to a "open day" at the karate school of my friend, and I thought the way they worship their master was kinda scary. I really have no experiences whatsoever when it comes to martial arts, but this confused me.--92.105.189.138 (talk) 20:16, 27 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Some marital arts work. :) --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  20:22, 27 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, this is also OR, but I'd imagine it depends on the martial art in question (they're very different). I do some kung fu (very far from an expert), and in my school, there are two pieces: "forms", which is very formal and concentrates on learning and going through the different stances, actions, etc., and "sparring", which focuses more on real-life fighting. I would imagine that the sparring part of it, which involves actually sparring with other students, would be quite useful in a real-life fight; the forms might be a little helpful in real life, but not very much. (At least, not before one starts the forms that incorporate weapons.) For what it's worth. Writ Keeper (WK to move) &#9863;&#9812; 20:26, 27 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Eastern martial arts seem to be a combination of exercise, hand-to-hand combat training, and indoctrination in Eastern Philosophy. That's quite clear in movies like Crouching Tiger, House of Flying Daggers, and Hero. μηδείς (talk) 04:13, 28 August 2013 (UTC)


 * They may be less effective than other fighting techniques, since they focus on fighting "honorably". However, if in a fight for you life, I suggest you kick the enemy in the balls, pull his hair, gouge his eyes out with your car keys, hit him with whatever's handy, bite, etc., which you don't see so often in martial arts competitions. :-) StuRat (talk) 04:40, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
 * No, they're more your marital arts. :)  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  05:00, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I may be prejudiced in favor of karate, but I don't see why a mae geri kick can't be aimed at the enemy's private parts, or a nuki te (spear-hand) strike be done with car keys instead of your fingers, if need be. 24.23.196.85 (talk) 07:44, 28 August 2013 (UTC)


 * You may be interested in the Penn and Teller: Bullshit episode named Martial Arts (or you may have seen it and that's why you're asking). Linking to it would be a copyright violation, but it's easy to find on YouTube.


 * As to the question, it's nearly impossible to answer definitively. If three karate black belts (or whatever experts) are in three barfights, they can all throw the exact same punch (or whatever technique). One may land on the chin and win, one may hit the forehead and prolong, one may miss entirely and lose. Half depends on what the opponent knows and does. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:28, 28 August 2013 (UTC)


 * I've done martial arts which has a self defense component. The general differences between the sport/forms version and the self defense version were that kicks should be kept low (anything above the knee is slow, and leaves you off balance), stomps or knees are preferable to kicks anyway (stomping down someone's shin is a good way to cause a lot of pain, very quickly, and it's hard for them to hold you in a way that you can't do it), and any areas that are not allowed targets in sport fighting are encouraged in self defense (groin, side of the knee, under the chin, throat).  With a lot of lectures about reasonable force, the most important thing about any martial art or self defense system is knowing when to use it, and how to scale your response. There's a few other tips, which are mostly about making sure that witnesses don't think you were being threatening (for the love of god, don't go into a boxer's stance with your fists up... you look a lot more defensive, but can do a lot more damage with your palms out ready to palmstrike)  MChesterMC (talk) 09:14, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

This article is an interesting and referenced discussion of the topic. : The Straight Dope : Has martial arts training ever helped anybody defeat a mugger? APL (talk) 16:01, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

I cannot help myself, but I even find the term "martial art" to be pretty weird. The term is strangely used for both, military based combat systems, traditional fight sports and some esoteric concepts.--92.105.189.138 (talk) 21:20, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Both of the first are fighting, hence the "martial" part. Only the details change. Learning Tai Chi for fighting will probably get you killed, but some people count it based on a very spotty history of effectiveness over the centuries. It's sort of like how the art of sweeping a floor could train you to throw back elbows. Not saying it's useless, in combination with a "real" disciple, but best to just count the first two kinds to avoid confusion. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:44, 29 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Here's a recent story about a guy who used his kung fu to fight off 50 thugs who were trying to intimidate him into leaving his home . I have no idea why they call him an "amateur", and yet also state he had trained for 20 years... SemanticMantis (talk) 16:23, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
 * If he never got paid for it, he's an amateur. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:38, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

What about the legal consequences? Most "martial artists" seem to never think about the aftermath.--92.105.189.138 (talk) 13:13, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Legal consequences of what? Defending yourself? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:49, 30 August 2013 (UTC)


 * When the police get involved, both parties in a fight often claim they were defending themselves, and there is also the issue of "reasonable force". See Right of self-defense. If there are no good witnessess and the other person is hurt far worse than you then there can easily be legal consequences no matter how justified you think you were. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:08, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Except in Florida. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:34, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Depends on what kind of martial arts. Most martial arts are not for attacking, rather defending yourself. Anybody watch Ip Man 2 or Fearless? Pretty awesome movies, both showing Eastern martial artists bringing down champion Western fighters who look down on martial arts. I would think taiji to be unpractical in combat, though. ☯ Bonkers The Clown  \(^_^)/  Nonsensical Babble  ☯ 14:03, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
 * However you must be really skilled in martial arts to be able to win a bazooka. ☯ Bonkers The Clown  \(^_^)/  Nonsensical Babble  ☯ 14:03, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Well... I do not really think, that movies like "Fearless" or "Ip Man 2" (they are very entertaining btw) give good impressions of Western martial arts. According to an interview given by the late Bob Anderson, there never was any intention at all, to show real combat systems of Western origin in modern media. This explains, why nearly no one has ever heard of the grand masters Johannes Liechtenauer and Fiore dei Liberi.--92.105.189.138 (talk) 16:25, 2 September 2013 (UTC)