Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2013 July 4

= July 4 =

Baseball question
Has a Major League Baseball team ever gone from winning the World Series to last place in their division/league in consecutive seasons? RNealK (talk) 05:12, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Off the top of my head I can tell you that the Florida Marlins did it by winning the Series in 1997 and finishing with the worst record in the Majors in 98. It seems more likely to happen in this day and age but it has probably happened in the distant past as well. I'm sure other editors will be able to fill you in on other teams that fit your parameters. MarnetteD | Talk 05:24, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The 1998 Marlins are indeed the only World Series to finish in last place (5th in a 5-team division). Before the divisional era (pre-1969), the 1965 St. Louis Cardinals and 1967 Baltimore Orioles both finished 7th in a 10-team league; the 1918 Chicago White Sox and 1919 Boston Red Sox both finished 6th in an 8-team league. Post 1969, the 1984 Baltimore Orioles finished 5th in 7-team division and the 1991 Cincinnati Reds 5th in a 6-team division. --Xuxl (talk) 09:37, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The Philadelphia Athletics record from 1910 through 1921 doesn't exactly fit the OP's criteria, but it's worth a look. They were World Series champions in 1910, 1911 and 1913. They were swept by the Boston Braves in 1914. Owner/manager Connie Mack, suspecting his players had tanked the Series, traded off all his star players. From 1915 through 1921 they finished dead last, including the 1916 season which remains the worst winning percentage of any team in the modern era, even worse than the 1962 Mets. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:52, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Forfeit Rules in Association Football (and ideally other sports)
This year at Wimbledon in the first round Rafa Nadal lost, and his opponent then withdrew due to injury shortly after. Nadal wasn't reinstated, and instead the next round opponent got a bye. Is this the norm in all sports? Take association football? If a team (somehow) withdrew from the FA Cup one year in the 4th round, what happens to the team they knocked out before? And what if a finalist withdraws? Is there any consistency in the sporting world, perhaps with different rules for team or individual sports? Many thanks, 86.150.166.62 (talk) 19:36, 4 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Ideally your question would be answered per-sport at the walkover article, but it mostly isn't. That article does discuss the Olympic gold medal of Wyndham Halswelle, however. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 19:45, 4 July 2013 (UTC)


 * It probably varies greatly depending on the sport and organization of the competition. I can't think of any significant forfeits in any of the playoff tournaments of any of the Big Four American team sports ever.  However, I do know they are frequent at lower levels, for example the NCHSAA (North Carolina High School) post-season American football tournaments are rather extensive in the sense that of the 350-400ish highs schools that play football, 256 make the post season (divided into 8 tournaments).  As the tournaments are seeded, it often happens that a tiny school from one side of the state with a 2-8 record will get paired against a 10-0 school from the other side of the state, and the smaller school will just forfeit the game, a likely sure loss, than have to incur the expense of traveling several hundred miles with 50 some odd players and coaches.  In those cases, they just don't play the game, and the team is granted a bye to the next round.  For the 4AA (largest classification) schools, it doesn't happen often as they often have the most resources and best funded programs, but for tiny 1A (smallest classification) schools, many teams forfeit and their opponents have been known to take one or even two byes because of it.  -- Jayron  32  19:53, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Right, but what if one team wins a match and then is forced to forfeit? Is there any sport which revives the defeated team/player in a knock-out tournament? 86.150.166.62 (talk) 19:56, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Exactly that happens in the FA Cup: In 2008 Droylsden F.C. were kicked out for fielding an ineligible player. The team they beat, Chesterfield F.C., were given a bye into the third round. I'm sure there have been other instances before and since. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 21:23, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * All from memory, so some details may be wrong: a few years earlier (1999–2000 season, I think), Manchester United withdrew from the FA Cup because they were participating in a tournament in another country at the time. When the FA Cup third round draw was made (United would have entered the competition at that stage), one team was drawn to play a "Lucky Loser", and immediately afterwards a special extra draw was made involving all teams beaten in the second round to determine who that Lucky Loser would be.  IIRC, Darlington FC were the Lucky Losers, and they ended up playing Aston Villa.  MUFC's withdrawal was quite controversial at the time; I think it's the only time, certainly in the modern history of the FA Cup, that a team has withdrawn voluntarily rather than being kicked out, as their near-neighbours Droylesden were.   Hassocks  5489 (Floreat Hova!)  08:08, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

There is the article "Lucky loser"... --Theurgist (talk) 02:04, 5 July 2013 (UTC)