Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2013 June 22

= June 22 =

Hogan's Heros question
In Hogan's Heros, why does Col. Klink say "yes, sir" to Maj. Hochstetter, even though a colonel outranks a major? Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 03:39, 22 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Because it's a comedy, rather than a documentary? HiLo48 (talk) 04:21, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
 * There is no laughter when it happens. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 15:05, 22 June 2013 (UTC)


 * (ec) : In the US a Colonel outranks a major. Is that also true in German army?  I see "major" as a rank for Germany at Command_and_obedience_in_the_Bundeswehr but not "colonel", so it would depend on what Germany rank Colonel corresponds to.  Also, the article Command_and_obedience_in_the_Bundeswehr desribes several situations in which officer order is not based on rank.  Perhaps Col. Klink and the major fall into one of those.   And of course, what the previous respondant says is also true.  It's just a TV show.   RudolfRed (talk) 04:24, 22 June 2013 (UTC)


 * The important factor is that Hochstetter was in the secret police (Gestapo). As such, he could have Klink arrested for treason (and likely executed).  So, his power was greater than his actual rank would indicate. StuRat (talk) 06:04, 22 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't rule out the possibility of ignorance on the part of the writers. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 10:34, 22 June 2013 (UTC)


 * A this point in the pedantry, it probably should be pointed out that two German officers in a German-run WWII POW camp would probably *never* say "Yes, sir" to each other, regardless of their respective ranks. Because they'd be speaking German, so would say something like "Jawohl, mein Herr" instead. - I don't know what the standard acknowledgment is from a German Colonel to a German Major in a different arm of the service (the Language or Humanities Refdesk would likely be a better place to ask that), but "translating" it as "Yes, sir" might have been a choice by the script writers to reflect the power dynamic between Klink and Hochstetter. (Those two words effectively convey that Hochstetter is in a position to at least attempt to order Klink around, even if their strict military ranks wouldn't nominally suggest that fact). -- 71.35.127.227 (talk) 18:21, 22 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Sergeant Schulz was made to say "Jawohl, mein Colonel" to Klink more than a few times, interspersed with English. --   Jack of Oz   [Talk]  21:12, 22 June 2013 (UTC)


 * That is the way it is in American TV and movie - foreign characters mix English and their language, but almost always the foreign-language words are ones that are commonly known to Americans, like "buenos dias, amigo". Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 22:22, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm reminded of newsreels where they would talk about the dreaded German Luftwaffe. That's merely the German term for "Air Force", but Luftwaffe sounds more menacing somehow. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:04, 23 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, I've never yet seen an English-language movie about the Nazis where anyone says "Hail Hitler!", or refers to him as "The Leader", or to the regime he led as "The Third Empire". Actually, given that Reich means Empire, why didn't Hitler install himself, Napoleon-like, as "Emperor Adolf I"? --   Jack of Oz   [Talk]  22:28, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
 * This question is amenable to a serious answer, but perhaps not in this thread. See Reich in the meantime. Tevildo (talk) 23:09, 22 June 2013 (UTC)


 * It also has to do with the character himself. Klink is a milquetoast, and cowers to anyone who approaches him with an authoritative tone, whether deserved or not.  → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 02:02, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
 * With his family having escaped Nazi Germany, it would be no surprise if Klemperer relished playing a Nazi in that buffoonish way. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 07:59, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Spot on. From Werner Klemperer: Klemperer, conscious that he would be playing the role of a German officer during the Nazi regime, agreed to the part only on the condition that Klink would be portrayed as a fool who never succeeded.  --   Jack of Oz   [Talk]  09:34, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

What was the lowest point in the history of any team in the higher tiers of English football?
Meaning, out of all these teams, which one has the 'record' for at one point being in a lower position than any other club. Another interesting question is, what club holds the record for the most league played in, for example, if Portsmouth were relegated four times in a row in the next four seasons from their current position in the Football League Two, they would end in up in some Evo-Stik league in Southern England, and that would mean that in the history of Portsmouth, they have played in eight different division/tiers/leagues what have you, and I'm wondering if there's been a team (even as far back as 20 tiers) that has played in an impressive amount of different divisions/tiers/leagues. If you can't find any English, than learning about teams in other countries like this would be fine too. Thanks! Nicholasprado (talk) 07:52, 22 June 2013 (UTC)


 * It would help if you could narrow down the "all these teams". Do you mean the top flight or the top two for example? Wolves, Sheffield United and Swansea have, I think, attained the top flight after spells as low as the fourth division (Wolves downfall was spectacular, a million pounds each for Andy Gray and a new stand in 1978 to the fourth division and only that stand out of the four useable because of tightened safety rules by 1986 or so). Britmax (talk) 08:38, 22 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't have time at the present to fully research this, but Bradford City AFC went from the Premier League to the 4th tier of English football (League 2), before being promoted to League 1 this year. --TammyMoet (talk) 09:04, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Well their neighbours dropped at least two divisions lower than that, even before they became a Phoenix club (association football) (an article where surely they should be listed). --Sussexonian (talk) 10:56, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I also see that they have played at some point in their history their spell in the first division and have also played as far low as the 9-10 tier of English football. Very nice. Nicholasprado (talk) 21:18, 22 June 2013 (UTC)


 * It's going to be tough to beat Gretna F.C. for this. Roughly in order they were in the FA's Carlisle and District League, Northern League Division 2 and 1, and Northern Premier League before switching to Scottish football, playing in Scottish League Divisions 3,2, and 1, and Scottish Premier League. If you accept the successor club Gretna F.C. 2008 as being the "same" club, their membership of the East of Scotland League brings the total to nine leagues. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 11:19, 22 June 2013 (UTC)


 * On a related point, AFC Wimbledon didn't exist in its present form before 2002, and started in the ninth tier but is now in the 4th tier, being an example of working your way upwards rather than falling down tables. Between 1977 and 1986 Swansea City AFC went from Division 4, to the First Division, and back to Division 4 in successive seasons. I highlight this one (I know Britmax mentioned it above but it is a special achievement to do it in such a short space of time) as an example of a current Premiership club that has yo-yoed somewhat over the last few years. And then there's Coventry City FC. Who knows where that will end? They have gone from Premier League to League One, but with their current messy situation could well go out of existence before the new season starts. --TammyMoet (talk) 10:20, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

It is arguable whether Bradford Park Avenue count, as the original club went out of business in 1974 (they then played in the Northern Premier League, at that time one step below the Football League). This makes Darwen F.C. a clear winner. They spent two seasons in the top division in the 1890s. By the time the club went out of business in 2009, they were playing in the North West Counties Football League Division Two, on the tenth tier of the pyramid. Some other record declines:
 * The furthest a former league title winner has fallen is the fourth tier. As well as Portsmouth who were mentioned above, this has happened to Wolverhampton Wanderers, Preston North End, Huddersfield Town and Burnley. Of these, Burnley went lowest. In the 1986–87 season they came within a single point of losing their Football League status. They finished 90th out of 92 League teams. As Burnley recently spent a season in the Premier League, this is also the furthest fall and subsequent return.
 * The furthest a former European Cup winner has fallen is the third tier. Nottingham Forest's 7th place in League One in 2005–06 equates to 53rd overall.
 * Aston Villa and Manchester City have both won the league, gone down to the third tier, and returned to win the league again. Villa also went on to win the European Cup. Manchester City also hold another dubious distinction, that of being the only club to be relegated while reigning champions, in 1938. Oldelpaso (talk) 12:49, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Help identifying a film
In the 1970's or perhaps 1980's, I remember the opening sequence of a film, that I'd like to identify. There is an "adventurer" and he has taken a young black witch into a cave to raise Beelzebub or similar. The witch manages this and she starts boasting to the adventurer that only she could have done it. Beelzebub points at her and her heart flies out of her chest, into his hand. She (naturally) falls dead, and the adventurer and B go off and presumably do nefarious deeds. I can only remember the opening sequence and I'd like to identify it, to see if I can watch it again. Thanks! --TrogWoolley (talk) 18:50, 22 June 2013 (UTC)


 * It has been a long time since I've seen it, but this sounds like the resurrection of Xusia at the beginning of The Sword and the Sorcerer. Dru of Id (talk) 18:08, 24 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Thankyou very much! This is indeed the film; I found the opening scene on youtube. Now to find the DVD. --TrogWoolley (talk) 21:57, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Scope of the accidentals
My reference book is King Palmer's Teach Yourself the Piano. On page 35 (Accidentals) he explains how the sharp and flat signs are applied within a single measure. If there is a sharp sign for instance at G line it will raise tone for every note within this measure only (bold face is mine), unless cancelled somewhere within the same measure by a natural sign. This is very clear.

On page 37 however he says this: "The sharp in the key-signature means that every F in the piece must be played F sharp, unless ...." He is explaining the example right before on the page where a sharp sign stands right after the treble key at the beginning of staff. This is very unclear. What piece is he talking about? The whole piece of music, perhaps 20 pages?

I would appreciate an explanation in clear and geometrically unambiguous way. What is the scope of the accidentals?

Thank you, - Alex — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.52.14.15 (talk) 19:45, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
 * See Accidental (music) and Key signature. The sharps and flats in the key signature apply until the next key signature (and many pieces are only in one key) - an accidental is a sharp, flat, or natural that _isn't_ part of the key signature, and just applies to the bar in which it appears. Tevildo (talk) 19:52, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you much. - Alex — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.52.14.15 (talk) 20:19, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Just like the newspapaers???
Hi there Wiki people,

Oh, i did find what i am asking here in wikipedia. but, wanted to make sure it is right and give it a more personal touch. Here is what i would like answered:

(1) someone in Newspaper cartoon strip gave this analogy: the newspapers have the same amount of news to print everyday, how? i do know the answer but again would like another opinion on it?

(2) Newspapers also have the same base as any other knowledge center, e.g. a school board syllabus, college curriculum, or any university syllabus. and in everyday or laymans term we call it memories. and every subject has its own terminology for it. like in commerce it is called journal keeping. in medicine - transcription, in engineering - ED or engineering drawing, in Arts - drawing or painting a picture or music or authoring a book, in HE or HS it is called Project Management. what i would like to know is - what do you know by the meaning of word ~ "Viral idea" and what are its impact? like what they teach in Mass Communications!!! How does internet help in this direction? what is its gestation period and how long does it last?

(3) this on a personal note - Yours is a great website and a service to believe in. i am sure yours will last for Hundreds of years to come. and generations from now will benefit from its presence.

hope to get a full reply.

Yours Sincerely, R.N. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.97.80.237 (talk) 20:36, 22 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Forgive me if I've misjudged the matter, but this sounds too much like a homework question for me to pretend otherwise. We can help you if you can show you've put in a serious effort first and are now stuck.  --   Jack of Oz   [Talk]  21:20, 22 June 2013 (UTC)


 * (OR warning) As a retired journalist, I may be able to help. To question (1): This is a very simplified explanation. Newspapers do indeed have the same amount of space each day, usually. The key is in story ranking and selection. As deadline approaches, the available stories are ranked by editors. The highest ranking stories end up on Page 1, and others get put in the paper based on their importance. Those on the bottom of the list sometimes never get in. On what is called a "slow news day", a lesser story might work its way to the top, just because nothing more important happened. There are also so-called "evergreen" stories, usually features that have no timeliness and can run anytime to fill space. ... As to question (2), I honestly do not understand the question.  → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 01:54, 23 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I may not understand question #2, but you may be referring to Institutional memory; See Morgue. Dru of Id (talk) 16:51, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

A viral idea is possibly now called a meme Hotclaws (talk) 14:32, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

rap song with "menace" in the chorus
early 00s i think, with a female rapper for a part, and male rapper, and the chorus was "menace". in like a special voice, like edited ... chipmunk but not fully chipmunk, like higher pitch :P — Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.157.127.68 (talk) 20:40, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I looked around, but didn't find any good candidates. Do you remember any other words from the song, even if it's just a single word out of context? Or what the song was about? Was it on the radio or just something from a cd? Is it from the US; I found a few songs around that time using menace in the chorus that are rap, but are not America (they don't have two singers though...).Phoenixia1177 (talk) 04:10, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

"so tell me what you want, I'll give you what you want" or something like that! was also said often I think :(  I don't really know what it was about & it was on the radio.. it was kind of old, so late90s - early 00s. Yeah it's a US song.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.157.127.68 (talk) 09:49, 23 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Are you sure it's not "Wannabe" by the Spice Girls? --TammyMoet (talk) 10:11, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

I looked around, but couldn't find anything. I did various google searches quoting different parts of the phrases provided, adding various years from 1998 to 2003 in; also tried with, and without, "radio" and variants of "featuring" (to get songs with two+ rappers). Also tried the same approach using "site:" to search a few popular lyrics sites, still nothing. Finally, spent about an hour with variations on and  and  (all useful sites for this type of thing), still nothing. Of course, it may just be bad luck; and, depending on how accurate your memory is, I saw about 15 songs that maybe could fit (some with two male rappers, or from 93-94, or with menace not in the chorus, etc.) Is it possible that you misheard the word "menace", could it be something else? Is "menace" the entire chorus, or just in the chorus? Anything else you remember? After looking around, now I'm curious:-) If you get a solution please let me know; you might want to try one of the sites I mentioned. Good Luck:-)Phoenixia1177 (talk) 14:43, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Aww. :(  It's not spice girls :/ & sadly I can't remember much more :(  I'll let you know if i find it! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.157.127.68 (talk) 16:22, 23 June 2013 (UTC)