Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2013 November 1

= November 1 =

Introduction of more than one narrative in TV shows
The article Tjhit Liap Seng on the 1886 Perakan novel, it mentions among the author's Indies literature innovations, a double narrative. This set me wondering if anyone can tell me when TV series such as black-and-white detective shows changed to a two or more narrative device - suspect it has something to do with longer running times because the early ones were half-hour shows. Thanks in advance Manytexts (talk) 00:27, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Our article on Subplot suggest that Shakespeare did it in Henry IV, Part 2, so I'm not so sure it was really that innovative in 1886. As for the running time, modern shows often do it with a 22 minute run time, so there isn't really any reason why that could have been an issue.  I can't tell you any older show with b-plots, though.  Hopefully someone will have some examples soon. Mingmingla (talk) 00:43, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
 * It depends on how it's defined. Recurring characters, story arcs and that sort of thing have been around for a long time. They get a bit more complicated nowadays. The typical Person of Interest episode has at least two plots going on, sometimes three. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:27, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Another factor is the size of the cast. The more players, the more flexibility. In the typical MASH episode, there was a tendency toward multiple plot lines involving different small groups of characters. That takes us back to the early to mid 70s, at least. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:28, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
 * And I would think that soap operas have been that way for a very long time. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:30, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Another current series that has a multitude of narratives is Game of Thrones. The same applies to the books that the show is adapted from. MarnetteD | Talk 19:18, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The more you think about it, the farther back it goes. Remember the hackneyed expression in westerns, "Meanwhile, back at the ranch..."? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:52, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Can someone help with interpreting Lady Gaga's song, Judas?
I know the song is sung in the point of view of Mary Magdalene, the female disciple of Jesus. What I don't get is the chorus. What is that supposed to mean, or is that just to reiterate "Jesus is my virtue / Judas is the demon I cling to / I cling to" lines? It's a pop song, so there are a lot of slang terms that I am not familiar with. And how many of Lady Gaga's songs are related to or allude to Christianity? 140.254.227.58 (talk) 12:21, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
 * As you say it's a pop song, so I shouldn't read too much into it. You might start with reading the Holy Fool page though, where it says "Fools for Christ often employ shocking, unconventional behaviour to challenge accepted norms, deliver prophecies or to mask their piety" in the introductory paragraph.  From my limited knowledge of the lady in question's output I'd imagine that that's a concept she could relate to.  Blakk   and ekka 12:34, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
 * That really sounds like Lady Gaga, notorious of her wild imagination and provocative outfits. 140.254.227.58 (talk) 12:41, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Shawshank
Was the movie The Shawshank Redemption based in part on The Count of Monte Cristo? I see quite a number of plot similarities, but I don't know if this was due to actual borrowing of plot elements, or merely to thinking alike. 24.23.196.85 (talk) 23:00, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Oops, it says in the article that it was actually based on a Stephen King novel. So my question should have been, was Stephen King inspired by The Count of Monte Cristo when he wrote that novel? 24.23.196.85 (talk) 23:03, 1 November 2013 (UTC)


 * In both stories, a man is falsely imprisoned and then takes some revenge on those who wronged him. Vaguely similar on a high level. But did the warden imprison the guy, or was the warden merely the resident sadist? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:59, 1 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I haven't read Stephen Kings novel, but I have seen the movie and read (and enjoyed) Dumas' novel. And it is clear to me that it is mainly a superficial resemblance. In Dumas' novel the actual imprisonment takes up a very small percentage of the story. The protagonist discovers a treasure which when he escapes he applies in a very elaborate scheme to act out his monomanic thoughts about revenge on the people outside of prison which framed him and hurt his family (this revenge part takes up most of the novel). The movie is almost entirely set inside the prison and while the protagonist is judicially vindicated in the end, his only grudge seems to be with the warden in the prison and his only thought when escaping is to get far away and live a quiet life. So in effect two very dissimilar stories. --Saddhiyama (talk) 00:12, 2 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Agreed, one is a story of revenge, and the other is a story, of, well, redemption. StuRat (talk) 03:22, 2 November 2013 (UTC)