Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2013 November 3

= November 3 =

Tropes or trope names coined at TV Tropes
What are examples of trope names that were first coined by people contributing to TV Tropes, as well as tropes which were actually first "discovered" by the contributors of said website? As in, trope names created specifically by/for TV Tropes contributors to name a particular trope, as well as tropes which had not been mentioned or noticed in any outlet prior to the creation of their TV Tropes page? The aforementioned link does mention the following:

"'Some tropes have a long history of usage, and somebody else may have coined a name for it, [but] some pre-existing terms are admittedly opaque, require knowledge of a certain Trope Namer, have been forgotten by the public consciousness (or just never caught on in the first place). In cases like these, it may be better to just invent the name ourselves.' (italics mine)"

In the case of the former, the trope "Put On A Bus" and Chuck Cunningham Syndrome are probably good examples of a pre-existing trope names; on the other hand, in previous years, when I was still a frequent visitor to the site, I found some (admittedly obscure) tropes whose names did not seem to be common or even used outside of the website, although I am currently unable to remember any examples (are the terms "Soap Opera Rapid Aging Syndrome" or The Other Darrin used outside of TV Tropes, or did the terms exist before TV Tropes' creation?) There also appears to be something called YKTTW where apparently new tropes are "proposed", although I don't know if it's only for proposing names for tropes which were previously unnamed. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 03:10, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * SORAS has been around for a long time. Prior to TVTropes.  RNealK (talk) 02:55, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Professional sports with different rules
So in American Major League Baseball, half the teams use the Designated Hitter rule and the other half does not. Are there any other professional sports where this is the case? RudolfRed (talk) 05:29, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * MLB is the only one of the four top-level pro sports which has separate leagues, which is why this DH oddity exists in the first place. Before the mergers of the NFL-AFL, the NBA-ABA and the NHL-WHA, there were some differences in the rules between the leagues, but these "mergers" were really acquisitions, and for the most part the acquiring league's rules prevailed. If you're talking leagues other than the top level, leagues that are independent can do what they want to. The Northern League in the early 2000s had at least one female player. That's out of the question in MLB and its affiliated minor leagues. That was a personnel rule, though, not a rules-of-the-game situation. Prior to the effective dissolution of the two leagues as governing bodies, there were other subtle differences between the two leagues, such as the authorized manufacturer of the game ball, and other equipment rules. There were also differences in rules about curfews and how to conduct tiebreakers. But until the DH came along, the two leagues had operated under the same set of playing rules since the early 1900s. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:13, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure I understand what you mean about the Northern League. One woman (Ila Borders) played in the league, but teams were not mandated to suit a woman player. And women players are allowed in organized baseball as well - there is nothing in the rules that explicitly prevent them from playing. --Xuxl (talk) 14:10, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * One exception to "for the most part the acquiring league's rules prevailed" is the 3 point shot and dunk that the ABA introduced in 1967-68, the NBA still didn't allow those then tho they may have adopted them just prior to the 1976 merger. And Bugs would know more in a general sense, the only reason I am aware of the ABA trivia is the Pittsburgh Pipers were 'kings of the world' in '68, dunk, dunk, three!  Market St.⧏  ⧐ Diamond Way   08:38, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, it was the ABA that introduced the 3-point shot, and the NBA accepted it. Similarly, the AFL allowed the 2-point conversion (as with college play) and the NFL adopted that when they merged. That was an actual merger, in the sense that all the teams remained intact. One thing the NBA did not take in was the red-white-and-blue basketball of the ABA. That was kind of a shame. As regards the slam-dunk (a term coined by Chick Hearn), I thought the NBA allowed that. It was the NCAA that prohibited it for a while, during the UCLA and Lew Alcindor (Kareem Jabbar) dominance. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 09:28, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The ABA ball is still used during the Three-Point Shootout competition during the NBA All-Star Weekend; it's also called the money ball. While we're in the subject of basketball, while this isn't really a difference within one league, in basketball, the NBA has 12-minute quarters, while FIBA rules dictate only 10 minutes per quarter, so in most basketball leagues (like in Europe), as well as international games and tournaments, you'll often see 10 minute quarters instead. The North American Soccer League and Major League Soccer during its early years experimented with rules that differed from FIFA rules (such as, in the case of the NASL, the game stopping when the time reached 0 instead of at the referee's whistle) Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 09:46, 3 November 2013 (UTC)


 * There's only one major hockey league in North America now but in the 1920s there was also the Western Hockey League and the Pacific Coast Hockey Association. The PCHA folded in 1926 but some of its teams, players, and more importantly, administrators (Frank Patrick and Lester Patrick) joined the NHL. In the 20s and 30s the NHL adopted some PCHA rules, the most famous probably being the penalty shot. Adam Bishop (talk) 10:49, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The forward pass came out of the PCHA as well. That was certainly an even bigger deal. Mingmingla (talk) 17:30, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * By "forward pass", I assume you mean passing the puck across certain lines rather than "forward pass" as used in football. The early rules forbade "forward" passing across either blue line. The compromise was to allow passing all the way up to the center line. That opened up the offense more. You still can't pass across the blue line into the attacking zone, of course. Or more to the point, no one on your team can precede the puck into the attacking zone. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:05, 4 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Neither the three-point shot in basketball, nor the two-point conversion in football were adopted immediately upon merger (or absorption) of the competitor league; it took a few years in both cases for the innovation from the "junior" league to be integrated in the rules (the three-point shot in 1979-80, while the merger was in 1976; the two-point conversion was introduced in 1994, while the two leagues had merged 15 years earlier). In soccer, another big difference between NASL and FIFA rule was the offside line was at the 35-yard-line in the NASL (it's the center line in all other forms of the game), making for a more open attacking game (that's one rule FIFA should have considered adopting); the shootout to resolve ties (instead of penalty shots) was another interesting innovation that died with the NASL. --Xuxl (talk) 14:09, 3 November 2013 (UTC)


 *  Just to be accurate, the NBA did not adopt the ABA's three-point shot upon the 1976 merger. The rule did not come to the NBA until 1979. (The rule was also used by the ABL from 1961 to 1964.) ... Similarly, the NFL did not take on the AFL's two-point conversion when they merged in 1970, waiting until 1994 to implement the rule.  → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 14:22, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Whatever happened to Archie Lewis a black singer with Geraldo's Orchestra and the BBC too
Can you please let me know a little about this wonderful and talented young man. I seem to come to a stand still with every site I turn to regarding his life and career. I seem to remember him being pilloried for being gay back in the times when it was deemed unacceptable (40's to 50's)

I can find an odd song or two on You Tube ie. When you were sweet sixteen etc but no reference anywhere to his life. 5.81.38.87 (talk) 14:15, 3 November 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.81.38.87 (talk) 14:01, 3 November 2013 (UTC)


 * His name meant nothing to me until your question. You're right that there seems to be precious little about him online, apart from mentions of some of the songs he recorded.  He is mentioned here as having "migrated to England during the early '40s and became Britain's most popular singer".   And here it says "Lewis was famous for his jazz songs and was known as the Bing Crosby of Great Britain".  It seems his fall from fame was as swift as his rise, but has been more long-lasting.  I couldn't find any hits at all connecting him with being gay, and so I wonder how you came on that information.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  19:02, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Intriguing. Again, his name meant nothing to me.  According to this book, after his time with Geraldo he returned to Jamaica and sang in hotels there.  Further research needed!  Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:19, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * There's a 1967 report on him here - "He was the rage of London in the 1940s.... Things got a little rough in later years but Archie has never seemed to lose his optimism, his courage or faith that things would get better..." Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:00, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * ...and some more here: " Lewis is a sadly neglected singer and deserves to be re-instated as one of the important black artists in the London musical landscape of the period. A baritone, he was known as “the Crosby of the Caribbean” or “the black Bing Crosby” and had a string of hits with a rather lugubrious take on a number of ballads that appealed to the immediate post-war audience. The best known and most typical is “In the Land of Beginning Again” which captured the mood of the time perfectly." Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:05, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * ...and here - "Archie was a regular in variety theatres as well as on Radio Luxembourg in the 1950s. When musical tastes changed he returned to Jamaica in the late 1960s worked in up market hotels finally marrying and moving to America where he lived until his death in 1988." Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:11, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * ...and finally (?) here: "February 26, 1988: Archie Lewis, one of the first blacks to sing solo in public performances in England, dies at the University Hospital, Mona, St Andrew, at age 70. He was also one of the first to perform on command of Her Majesty the Queen at Buckingham Palace. He was the featured singer with the Geraldo orchestra of England, during the 1940s. He toured with Geraldo, entertaining troops in Africa, France and Belgium. He also worked with Josephine Baker in Paris, France. His most successful recording, sung with the Luton Girls Choir in England in 1948, While the Angelus Was Ringing, sold over a million copies. He returned to Jamaica in 1964." Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:14, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * et voilà! Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:20, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Alors, formidable, mon vieux! --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  08:32, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Classical music audience
 (I may be asking for speculation, but I am curious so I'm going to inquire anyway.)  When I watch a classical music performance on television from Europe, I notice that during a lively piece some members of the audience step into the aisles to dance, others clap along, In the U.S., the audience sits in silence through the whole piece. It seems as though the Europeans are enjoying the music as it was meant to be. Is this merely a cultural difference, or is there another reason for the varied reactions? Thank you. → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 14:30, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Is this any old classical music performance, or is it Andre Rieu? I would expect Andre to encourage audience participation. He might not be alone in this regard. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:50, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * This is certainly not accepted in civilised audiences at a classical performance. As said above, at the performances of the 'musicians' like Rieu all bets are off. The one exception to this is of course at the Last Night of the Proms. Fgf10 (talk) 17:55, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I take the term 'musician' in quotes is code for something that's actually pleasant to listen to. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:28, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Other orchestras do have designated performances where audience participation is accepted. I am thinking of the Vienna Philharmonic's New Years concerts and in the US there is a "Too Hot To Handel" version of The Messiah that encourages the audience to take part. It is interesting to note that "civilized quiet audiences" is a phenomena that has changed over the years. The story I have heard numerous times that at the first performance of Beethoven's 7th symphony the audience was so moved by the second movement that they cheered and demanded that it be played again before proceeding with the third and fourth movements (a couple sources say that it was played a third time but I haven't seen anything confirming that.) I find that quite understandable considering the fact that (in the centuries before records, tape, CDs etc) this might be the only time that audience members would hear the music. In the last couple decades I have been in audiences on both sides of the Atlantic that clapped between movements of some works when the featured artists and/or orchestra gave a particularly stirring performance. MarnetteD | Talk 18:12, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * They're becoming a lot more relaxed about this sort of thing. Not too long ago, clapping between movements was considered a serious cultural gaffe, but it's becoming more common these days.  Orchestra managers would rather have bums on seats enjoying the music and the bums' owners showing their appreciation, than people staying away in droves due to an unnecessarily stuffy atmosphere.  In opera and ballet, clapping after a signature aria or pas is not only accepted but almost considered mandatory, and sometimes an aria has to be repeated before the action can move on.  Even in the heyday of high culture when orchestral patrons wore dinner suits (men) and furs and diamonds (women), there were always some pieces where people clapped inappropriately: after the 3rd movement (March) of Tchaikovsky's 6th Symphony Pathétique - it sounds like a brilliant and stirring ending, which it is, but only of that movement, and the slow finale is yet to come; sometimes conductors launch into the finale without a break, in order to cut the clappers off at the pass, so to speak.  And the ending of Weber's Invitation to the Dance - again, there's a false ending, but there's a tiny slow reprise of the opening to follow.  The perils of a conductor's trade.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  18:41, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Short Science Fiction Story
I'm trying to find a short science fiction story read a few years ago, and am not having any luck. Google has turned up nothing.

Plot summary:

-There are dangerous aliens but most of mankind ignores the threat

-An antihero character called John hangs everyone on a colonized planet called New Houston (or something similar) and frames the aliens

-The horror of everyone on New Houston dying causes the rest of mankind to take the alien threat seriously and prepare for war

-John committed the atrocity in order to wake them from their stupor and prepare for the threat of the actual aliens

-No one will name their child John after the incident (they know he was involved but think he's an alien or is working with them, when he's actually human)

At the end John flees out into space and his last message to mankind is that he is going to come back one day and kill them all, which prompts them to remain ever vigilant. Thanks to this they survive an attack by the the real aliens that would have otherwise wiped them out. The reader is left wondering whether John's actions were justified or whether he is evil, even if his aims were good.

It would mean the world to me if someone could identify this story.

Thanks for any help you can offer! 19:54, 3 November 2013 (UTC)BrownEyes

song
Hello, I have heard an American song, it's a man sing, it's in E-flat minor, the intro is the trumpet and the lyrics' key is $$B \flat E \flat B \flat B \flat C \flat C \flat A \flat D\flat A \flat A \flat B \flat B \flat G \flat C \flat G \flat A \flat A \flat G \flat F$$. What is this song's name ? 198.105.121.83 (talk) 20:47, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * You've got the notes but don't have any of the words? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:26, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, I don't remember the lyrics, I remember only the notes. 198.105.121.83 (talk) 21:36, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Can you hum or whistle the tune on one of those websites that allows such things, and then link us to it? Unless someone who can read music happens by here soon. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:40, 3 November 2013 (UTC)


 * The song is like this. 198.105.121.83 (talk) 01:27, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * My PC can't play OGG files, but maybe someone else here can. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:46, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * you can record short voice clips and get a URL of it to share at vocaroo — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ballchef (talk • contribs) 07:04, 4 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I thought that Sluzzelin's suggestion of All the Things You Are (since redacted) hit the spot, but the rhythmic pattern doesn't match. To me it sounds European, possibly Italian from the '60s-'70s.  I don't have a name.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  08:28, 4 November 2013 (UTC)


 * It sounds like the beginning of "50 Ways to Say Goodbye" by Train. See this You Tube clip and play from 0:36 to 0.48.--Melburnian (talk) 09:34, 4 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I've definitely heard it before but can't recall what it is exactly. Maybe if I had more to go off of.  But it does sound a bit like Europe's "The Final Countdown". See this link for the video.  Dismas |(talk) 09:36, 4 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I mean "50 Ways to Say Goodbye". Thanks to Melburnian ! 198.105.121.83 (talk) 11:16, 4 November 2013 (UTC)