Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2014 August 20

= August 20 =

Music myth
I would like to know if anyone can explain the origin of the myth that F major is the hardest key to sing in. Does anyone know where this myth began?? Georgia guy (talk) 00:29, 20 August 2014 (UTC)


 * This ain't really gonna answer your question but take a look at this http://www.choralnet.org/view/220889. You may be right it is a myth but the people who posted in that thread, who are choral directors and so on, seem to believe that it is not. In any case you could try to contact one of them and ask them. Contact Basemetal   here  19:48, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Speaking as one who knows next to nothing about music theory... C major would be the classic "simple" key, right? (No sharps or flats on the staff.) Being a major key, it would have the usual "do-re-mi-fa-so-la-ti-do" structure. And if it's F major, then "do-re-mi..." starts on F instead of C, right? So why would it be so hard to sing do-re-mi in F major as opposed to C major? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:36, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Well if you're right, then a lot of songs would be in that simple key. But F major would mean that vocalists have to pitch their voice five semitones up (or seven semitones down). People used to C major and songs around there might find F major significantly more difficult. But that really doesn't explain why F# Major is given as the toughest to sing...  ~Helicopter  Llama~  21:08, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Being too high-pitched occurred to me, but that would be more true for G than for F, I should think. And is it F major, or F-sharp major? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:16, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
 * (for what it's worth, no good reference) It's F major, and it has to do with how the root harmony (F major) is voiced among the soprano, altos, tenors, basses etc in a mixed choir. The fact that this is about choirs is relevant, because it's about the quality of sung intervals and chords in harmony. Even if the alleged problems applied, say, to only 30% of all singers, you will hear the difference in a large group, while you might hear it less in solo or small ensemble performances.  (even if the 30% choose not to sing, you'd still hear the difference).
 * For example, most amateur basses in choirs can sing a smooth voluminous low G, but some will struggle with the F, the chord's root note {tonic), most often given to the basses for the composition's final chord, for example. The struggling might result in a different timbre, or even in a tendency to intonate it sharp. Similarly, it is said that F major's chord notes often lie in the area where the vocal register changes for a number of female choir members (see passaggio) which (again for some of the non-professionals) might result in flat intonation. All together this can lead to a thin-sounding, or, worse, to a clashing chord, which is particularly ugly when it's what is supposed be the music's tonal center, and also the sound that will linger in your ears after the music stops.
 * That's the theory I've heard, I don't have any good reference beyond forums, and I've heard choir leaders say it's rubbish. ---Sluzzelin talk  21:45, 20 August 2014 (UTC)


 * It's not and there is no key that can be said to be the "hardest" to sing in. The range of the melody is more important.  Many untrained singers cannot easily sing a melody whose range exceeds an octave.  For example, The Star-Spangled Banner is often thought of as being hard to sing because of its larger-than-average range of an octave and a fifth, while Mary Had A Little Lamb may be considered "easier" because of its limited range of only a fifth.  In the original Broadway production of The Sound of Music, the song Do-Re-Mi has a melody that starts and ends on the tonic note of C, with a range of an octave.  This may be comfortable for many singers, but the melody of Amazing Grace, if sung in the same key of C-major, actually lies lower in pitch because the range goes from G to G, rather than C to C. --Thomprod (talk) 01:29, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The main issue seems to be one of range. So it's reasonable to suppose that John Gary could have handled these difficult keys rather better than, say, Ringo Starr or Herb Alpert. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 04:08, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Late 90's isometric shooter game for the PC.
Hi all,

I am trying to recollect the name of a PC game I played many years go, but sadly has forgotten the name of. The game must be from late 90s or early 2000s, since that is when I was playing it, and graphics of the game surely was of that era. It was an isometric shooter, with the main character being a sort of robotic vehicle that zooms around and shoots where you click. The vehicle/ character would be the same size a single unit in an RTS, say Command and Conquer:Red Alert. The setting was a futuristic city outdoors set out with really flat terrain, with streets and small buildings. One of the weapons that was available to be used was a gatling gun. The only thing I faintly remember is that the game or its tag line somewhere had the word "virus" in it. Much googling has failed to bring up any further clues. Perhaps it was an obscure port of some console game. Any hint/ info will be much appreciated.

Thanks Gulielmus estavius (talk) 15:05, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
 * You might take a look at our list of third-person shooters (which is sortable by release date and platform, among other criteria) and see if anything jumps out at you. The only such game on our list with the word "virus" in its title is this one, which was released in your stated timeframe; though the gameplay description doesn't seem to match at all.  Good hunting.   ☯.Zen  Swashbuckler  .☠  15:52, 20 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Streets, small buildings and a gatling gun ? That sounds like one of the Syndicate games
 * Possibly Syndicate wars: the in-game story was that a computer virus - "Harbinger" - had infected various technology, including the mind-control implants used by each faction.
 * 90.244.143.220 (talk) 16:55, 20 August 2014 (UTC)


 * The game I was thinking of is neither Syndicate wars nor the virus game mentioned above, but going through the list of 3rd person shooters, I find something  resembling to what I had played: Future Cop: LAPD, but only I find the game I remember having played was having a small hovertank type of vessel or craft as the players unit, instead of a walking robot, and also the unit movement in the isometric view much more smoother and better done. Also it had a lot of barrels and crates to be shot up for powerups. And the city setting was a lot more industrial, with lots of tubing and boiler type of structures, and generally better graphics than Future Cop.  Gulielmus estavius (talk) 17:39, 20 August 2014 (UTC)